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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 28, 2020 9:49:13 GMT
What is to be done about the supply of services? Are you breaking up the health care cartel? More doctors? Because supply and demand is still a thing. Everything will just get cheaper and better with higher demand and the same supply. Just wish it so.
Why don't you research what doctors say about their profession in the USA: their biggest headache is navigating the crazy quilt of insurance plans, reimbursement, getting approved, etc etc etc. They have to devote considerable office space and staff to deal with PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE.
By and large, they'd much rather not have to deal with any of that. They'd rather be doing what they were trained to do: take care of their patients' health concerns.
Buy a clue.
What does that have to do with a cartel which constrains the supply of services in order to prop up income levels? Thanks in advance. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,097
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 28, 2020 10:36:34 GMT
Why don't you research what doctors say about their profession in the USA: their biggest headache is navigating the crazy quilt of insurance plans, reimbursement, getting approved, etc etc etc. They have to devote considerable office space and staff to deal with PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE.
By and large, they'd much rather not have to deal with any of that. They'd rather be doing what they were trained to do: take care of their patients' health concerns.
Buy a clue.
What does that have to do with a cartel which constrains the supply of services in order to prop up income levels? Thanks in advance.
I don't know. I am not addressing that putative issue.
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Post by crepe05 on Jun 28, 2020 12:56:42 GMT
Aye.
Just wear your seatbelt mask Q ..
Yeah I don't wear a seatbelt either. Queshank |
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 28, 2020 12:57:43 GMT
I work for a massive company that has been making me wonder what they know (or what kind of deals they've been making) because they are still implementing even more stringent "safety" standards at work. 6 weeks ago started with temp checks (we were required to simply check ourselves before entering the building), then it went to required mask usage a couple weeks later, and now starting next week it will be some sort of thermal scan as we enter the building. All new hiring has been shutdown completely outside of essential production and customer service positions where turnover is higher. Executives took a pay cut (which doesn't mean much because of the stock options). All salaried (management) employees had their pay frozen and upper management had their 401K company match cutoff. I get the feeling they are preparing for another round of shutdowns. This is exactly my experience as well. I work for a national conglomerate. Two days before Newsom shut down California we all had a meeting and were warned ahead of time of the coming closures. And we were given "papers" to keep in our car designating us as essential workers able to move freely. The next day my wife, who works at a bank, was given her papers as well. They're still in our glove compartment. Kinda creepy. Haven't had to use them, obviously. But then again, we're not in LA, we're in the central valley. (Nunes' district.)
Our parent corp knew California was shutting down 2 days before the news knew.
Recently our plant manager has been making the same noises. "We're headed for another shutdown. I know it." rhetoric. Nothing official. But he's on the phones with his bosses every day while we all meet every week trying to figure out how to keep from getting permanently shut down as we hemorrhage cash.
I'll go you one further. Part of my job is calling distributors. Gauging the health of their companies. Finding out who is working from home still, whether phone numbers and mailing addresses and receiving hours are back to normal. Every time it's like I lance a boil and then sit and listen for 10 to 15 minutes as anger, fear and confusion leak out.
The stories I am hearing every day ... that distributors tell about their customers and what's going on ... are grueling to listen to the past month. We are nowhere near the point where we're seeing the pain that's growing out there. The news sure isn't reporting it.
Queshank
Ah yes the papers. I remember thinking "Holy shit what's next? Are they going to start mandating the non-essentials wear patches with a star on it?" |
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Post by crepe05 on Jun 28, 2020 13:02:50 GMT
Ok, I skimmed through most of this, and all I can come up with during the however long time we've been dealing with covid, is hogwash. My Lord, when I was a kid, we worried about polio, measles, mumps, but we didn't fall apart with fear. We also were in the middle of fighting WWII, which was a bigger deal than any of the diseases. We were all aware that people died ...... from a lot of different things, some diseases, some not. Most of us used public transportation, and breathed and probably, on occasion, sneezed on one another. We received our information from the newspapers (my city had a morning and an evening paper), and my family got both. We also listened to the radio which was on all day. My point, if I have one, is that people have been fighting all sorts of things (and people) since time began which was actually before my time. Now it's this generations turn, and I can promise that after every one of us is dead, there will be other fights going on. Just teach your kids that life has problems and to deal with them as best they can and go on living for as long as they can. IMO, belief in some sort of higher power helps a lot. Just enjoy yourselves, which doesn't necessarily mean to be stupid. However, you may be stupid if you prefer. On edit, I just noticed my avatar, Thanks a bunch. I love it, and just told my husband to come see. Yup, all you came up with is hogwash.
Possibly, but it's my hogwash so it makes sense to me. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's got to be your problem, not mine. You'll learn, as time goes by, if you pay attention to what's going on and what's gone on in our history. |
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 28, 2020 13:10:41 GMT
But what are they going to tax exactly? The tax base just got annihilated. The tax base and the people who need access to quality health care are the same people. If they can't afford better, less expensive nationalized coverage, then neither will they be able to afford worse, more expensive for profit health insurance, especially with all its former restrictions. Which brings us back full circle. If neither can be afforded then how do you pay for it? Estimates for a medicare for all type system range between 20-35 trillion dollars. That means there would have to be a significant tax increase on everyone. Even if you offset those increased taxes by eliminating the costs of private insurance there is no way right now to cover all that. Remember millions of people are unemployed and not paying any taxes thanks to the government. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 15:44:50 GMT
Well, now you are going to get it. The scared little Karens are going to tell you what a horrible person you are for pointing out that A) government was wrong, B) science was wrong and C) COVID-19 may not be super dangerous. I'm sticking by the predictions (not mine) that the infection mortality rate will be less than 0.20%. So does this mean you choose not to wear a mask when you go out?
Freon
Yep. Still not sick. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 15:48:10 GMT
So does this mean you choose not to wear a mask when you go out?
Freon
Yep. Still not sick.
()&*^@#)($*^&)@(*#^&$)(*@#&$)(*&@#)($*&@
OMG YOU"RE SO STUPID!
THE MASKS ARE TO KEEP OTHER PEOPLE SAFE NOT YOU YOU SELFISH PRICK!
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SOCIETY SAFE FOR THE VULNERABLE! NOW A 300 LB 75 YEAR OLD MAN WITH EMPHYSEMA CAN'T GO TO DISNEYLAND YOU FUCK!
DON'T YOU KNOW THIS??? DON'T YOU KNOW THIS YOU FUCKING NAZI!!!!!!!
/leftist
Queshank
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 15:53:28 GMT
()&*^@#)($*^&)@(*#^&$)(*@#&$)(*&@#)($*&@
OMG YOU"RE SO STUPID!
THE MASKS ARE TO KEEP OTHER PEOPLE SAFE NOT YOU YOU SELFISH PRICK!
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SOCIETY SAFE FOR THE VULNERABLE! NOW A 300 LB 75 YEAR OLD MAN WITH EMPHYSEMA CAN'T GO TO DISNEYLAND YOU FUCK!
DON'T YOU KNOW THIS??? DON'T YOU KNOW THIS YOU FUCKING NAZI!!!!!!!
/leftist
Queshank
Lmao...you had me for a moment there. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,097
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 28, 2020 16:20:13 GMT
This is exactly my experience as well. I work for a national conglomerate. Two days before Newsom shut down California we all had a meeting and were warned ahead of time of the coming closures. And we were given "papers" to keep in our car designating us as essential workers able to move freely. The next day my wife, who works at a bank, was given her papers as well. They're still in our glove compartment. Kinda creepy. Haven't had to use them, obviously. But then again, we're not in LA, we're in the central valley. (Nunes' district.)
Our parent corp knew California was shutting down 2 days before the news knew.
Recently our plant manager has been making the same noises. "We're headed for another shutdown. I know it." rhetoric. Nothing official. But he's on the phones with his bosses every day while we all meet every week trying to figure out how to keep from getting permanently shut down as we hemorrhage cash.
I'll go you one further. Part of my job is calling distributors. Gauging the health of their companies. Finding out who is working from home still, whether phone numbers and mailing addresses and receiving hours are back to normal. Every time it's like I lance a boil and then sit and listen for 10 to 15 minutes as anger, fear and confusion leak out.
The stories I am hearing every day ... that distributors tell about their customers and what's going on ... are grueling to listen to the past month. We are nowhere near the point where we're seeing the pain that's growing out there. The news sure isn't reporting it.
Queshank
Ah yes the papers. I remember thinking "Holy shit what's next? Are they going to start mandating the non-essentials wear patches with a star on it?"
Nah, the stupid expression on your faces will be enough for identification of the expendables.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,097
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 28, 2020 16:20:59 GMT
Yup, all you came up with is hogwash.
Possibly, but it's my hogwash so it makes sense to me. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's got to be your problem, not mine. You'll learn, as time goes by, if you pay attention to what's going on and what's gone on in our history.
You so dumb.
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 28, 2020 16:28:28 GMT
Ah yes the papers. I remember thinking "Holy shit what's next? Are they going to start mandating the non-essentials wear patches with a star on it?"
Nah, the stupid expression on your faces will be enough for identification of the expendables.
Ya. The expression of how the fuck is this happening in America. I mean just listen to yourself. You don't even try to deny it anymore. Identification of the expendable population. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Jun 28, 2020 16:31:21 GMT
The tax base and the people who need access to quality health care are the same people. If they can't afford better, less expensive nationalized coverage, then neither will they be able to afford worse, more expensive for profit health insurance, especially with all its former restrictions. What is to be done about the supply of services? Are you breaking up the health care cartel? More doctors? Because supply and demand is still a thing. Everything will just get cheaper and better with higher demand and the same supply. Just wish it so. Where in the civilized world has single payer led to anything like what you fear? Other than in the minds of you and others who share this irrational fear? |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Jun 28, 2020 16:33:30 GMT
The tax base and the people who need access to quality health care are the same people. If they can't afford better, less expensive nationalized coverage, then neither will they be able to afford worse, more expensive for profit health insurance, especially with all its former restrictions. Which brings us back full circle. If neither can be afforded then how do you pay for it? Estimates for a medicare for all type system range between 20-35 trillion dollars. That means there would have to be a significant tax increase on everyone. Even if you offset those increased taxes by eliminating the costs of private insurance there is no way right now to cover all that. Remember millions of people are unemployed and not paying any taxes thanks to the government. Estimates for the current system range much, much higher. Who is going to pay for that? |
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 28, 2020 17:08:29 GMT
Which brings us back full circle. If neither can be afforded then how do you pay for it? Estimates for a medicare for all type system range between 20-35 trillion dollars. That means there would have to be a significant tax increase on everyone. Even if you offset those increased taxes by eliminating the costs of private insurance there is no way right now to cover all that. Remember millions of people are unemployed and not paying any taxes thanks to the government. Estimates for the current system range much, much higher. Who is going to pay for that? 3.6 trillion was the estimated cost last year of health care in the US. To get everyone fully insured where everyone has access to good quality completely covered health care is an even greater cost than our current system. Millions of people are losing their insurance because the government fucked them by shutting down the economy. We would need to come up with trillions more for a medicaid for all system. So the current system is getting jacked even more because millions of people lost their jobs and can't afford -any- insurance. They have very limited or no incomes right now. How do we pay for system that requires everyone to pay more into a system than they currently do (right now if they don't have insurance they aren't paying for anything)? How do you expect to raise an extra 15 trillion when the economy is tanked? Just print it? |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Jun 28, 2020 17:10:51 GMT
Estimates for the current system range much, much higher. Who is going to pay for that? 3.6 trillion was the estimated cost last year of health care in the US. To get everyone fully insured where everyone has access to good quality completely covered health care is an even greater cost than our current system. Millions of people are losing their insurance because the government fucked them by shutting down the economy. We would need to come up with trillions more for a medicaid for all system. So the current system is getting jacked even more because millions of people lost their jobs and can't afford -any- insurance. They have very limited or no incomes right now. How do we pay for system that requires everyone to pay more into a system than they currently do (right now if they don't have insurance they aren't paying for anything)? How do you expect to raise an extra 15 trillion when the economy is tanked? Just print it?
, and as long as you keep stating it as fact, your argument is baseless. |
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josie
Uber Noob
Posts: 13
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Post by josie on Jun 28, 2020 17:30:15 GMT
Infections may have been 10 times as high as what's known, due to asymptomatic carriers? 2.4 mil known X 10 = 24 million. If 2.4 mil gave us 120 000 deaths, corrected to 24 mil infections that gave us 120K. Hmmm, 340 mil people/24 = 14.167. 14.167 x 120K = 1.7 mil deaths. Yeah, let's open up! Give me liberty or give me death! We can’t shelter and live off of the government indefinitely. Something tells me all this fear-mongering will end November 3rd regardless... |
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 28, 2020 17:32:03 GMT
3.6 trillion was the estimated cost last year of health care in the US. To get everyone fully insured where everyone has access to good quality completely covered health care is an even greater cost than our current system. Millions of people are losing their insurance because the government fucked them by shutting down the economy. We would need to come up with trillions more for a medicaid for all system. So the current system is getting jacked even more because millions of people lost their jobs and can't afford -any- insurance. They have very limited or no incomes right now. How do we pay for system that requires everyone to pay more into a system than they currently do (right now if they don't have insurance they aren't paying for anything)? How do you expect to raise an extra 15 trillion when the economy is tanked? Just print it?
, and as long as you keep stating it as fact, your argument is baseless. You aren't listening to my argument. Let's try again. Let's say medicare for all is significantly cheaper. It still requires a significant increase of taxes on everyone to cover it. The way the current system works is that if you don't pay you don't play. Sure you can get some emergency care but they just end up slapping you with a big bill. My point is how do you increase taxes on millions of people when they aren't currently paying like any taxes because they are unemployed? If millions of people don't have insurance and aren't paying anything for insurance and have no job how do you expect them to pay taxes? The tax base simply isn't there right now. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Jun 28, 2020 17:34:03 GMT
That is an incorrect statement, and as long as you keep stating it as fact, your argument is baseless. You aren't listening to my argument. Let's try again. Let's say medicare for all is significantly cheaper. It still requires a significant increase of taxes on everyone to cover it. The way the current system works is that if you don't pay you don't play. Sure you can get some emergency care but they just end up slapping you with a big bill. My point is how do you increase taxes on millions of people when they aren't currently paying like any taxes because they are unemployed? If millions of people don't have insurance and aren't paying anything for insurance and have no job how do you expect them to pay taxes? The tax base simply isn't there right now. I do listen to your arguments. You more than most. But the statement I boldened (?) was incorrect or inaccurate, take your pick. |
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 28, 2020 17:50:19 GMT
You aren't listening to my argument. Let's try again. Let's say medicare for all is significantly cheaper. It still requires a significant increase of taxes on everyone to cover it. The way the current system works is that if you don't pay you don't play. Sure you can get some emergency care but they just end up slapping you with a big bill. My point is how do you increase taxes on millions of people when they aren't currently paying like any taxes because they are unemployed? If millions of people don't have insurance and aren't paying anything for insurance and have no job how do you expect them to pay taxes? The tax base simply isn't there right now. I do listen to your arguments. You more than most. But the statement I boldened (?) was incorrect or inaccurate, take your pick. It was a combination of both. The 20-30 trillion was over a 10 year period. I had assumed that it was over a 1 year period which did seem super high compared to the current 3.6 trillion. |
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