demos
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Post by demos on Oct 13, 2022 19:51:17 GMT
More baloney, demos. More whataboutery. More of you twisting in the wind to avoid addressing things that make you uncomfortable. You must be a graduate of the Kellyanne Conway School of Alternative Facts. What whataboutery? What baloney?
Your points were addressed and since you can't respond to them you're just going to flail about in this manner.
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thor
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Post by thor on Oct 13, 2022 20:00:48 GMT
More baloney, demos. More whataboutery. More of you twisting in the wind to avoid addressing things that make you uncomfortable. You must be a graduate of the Kellyanne Conway School of Alternative Facts. What whataboutery? What baloney?
Your points were addressed and since you can't respond to them you're just going to flail about in this manner.
You have been told repeatedly what reality is. You have been using a lot of words trying to deny that reality due to your emotional investment in that fiction. You love to pretend you're informed, dude, but the reality is you have no idea what you are talking about, or worse you (and Shitbag, Que-Anon and Fobbit) will outright deny historical, military and physical realities because they don't fit what you want to believe. Over 28 pages of this BS. And counting. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 13, 2022 20:09:48 GMT
You have been told repeatedly what reality is. You have been using a lot of words trying to deny that reality due to your emotional investment in that fiction. You love to pretend you're informed, dude, but the reality is you have no idea what you are talking about, or worse you (and Shitbag, Que-Anon and Fobbit) will outright deny historical, military and physical realities because they don't fit what you want to believe. Over 28 pages of this BS. And counting. In sum, you got nothing. Per usual.
You were given a rebuttal to whatever your NATO border argument was supposed to be. You know nothing about the history between Ukraine and Donbas since independence. You don't have any rebuttal to these points, so this is what you do now - right on cute - just throw shit against the wall and hope it sticks.
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thor
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Post by thor on Oct 13, 2022 20:10:24 GMT
You have been told repeatedly what reality is. You have been using a lot of words trying to deny that reality due to your emotional investment in that fiction. You love to pretend you're informed, dude, but the reality is you have no idea what you are talking about, or worse you (and Shitbag, Que-Anon and Fobbit) will outright deny historical, military and physical realities because they don't fit what you want to believe. Over 28 pages of this BS. And counting. In sum, you got nothing. Per usual.
You were given a rebuttal to whatever your NATO border argument was supposed to be. You know nothing about the history between Ukraine and Donbas since independence. You don't have any rebuttal to these points, so this is what you do now - right on cute - just throw shit against the wall and hope it sticks.
In sum, I have schooled you repeatedly. You not liking reality is on you, dude. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 13, 2022 20:13:58 GMT
In sum, I have schooled you repeatedly. You not liking reality is on you, dude. To school me, you would have to actually know something about what we're talking about. It's clear you don't.
How is acknowledging that NATO is a defensive alliance directed against Russia a denial of historical, military and physical realities? How is acknowledging that Russia has been concerned about Ukrainian membership in NATO a denial of historical, military and physical realities? How is acknowledging that Crimea and Donbas have sought greater autonomy, independence, and in come cases, reintegration with Russia a denial of historical, military and physical realities?
The answer is: they're not. Those are the historical realities.
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thor
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Post by thor on Oct 13, 2022 20:15:54 GMT
In sum, I have schooled you repeatedly. You not liking reality is on you, dude. To school me, you would have to actually know something about what we're talking about. It's clear you don't.
How is acknowledging that NATO is a defensive alliance directed against Russia a denial of historical, military and physical realities? How is acknowledging that Russia has been concerned about Ukrainian membership in NATO a denial of historical, military and physical realities? How is acknowledging that Crimea and Donbas have sought greater autonomy, independence, and in come cases, reintegration with Russia a denial of historical, military and physical realities?
The answer is: they're not. Those are the historical realities.
LMAO! Like when you tried to 'school me' in things military? You go too far with the comedy, dude. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 13, 2022 20:33:58 GMT
LMAO! Like when you tried to 'school me' in things military? You go too far with the comedy, dude. Like when you tried to say there were no issues with supplies of weapons? Still an issue btw. Claim as much expertise as you like, doesn't change what you don't know or what you refuse to acknowledge.
Maybe spend some time reading up on this stuff instead of lazily falling back on claims of experience.
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Post by Lomelis on Oct 14, 2022 4:20:46 GMT
1. Nobody in Russian government believes NATO on their borders is a threat. Poland has been in Nato a long time. Norway even longer. At present, NATO has land borders with Russia spanning 754 miles across northern Norway, eastern Latvia and Estonia, and the borders with Poland and Lithuania around Russia's Kaliningrad region. 2. If Ukraine wants to be neutral, that's on them. Other countries can't declare it. 3. Peace will come when Russian forces are no longer inside Ukranian territory. Negotiations should be focussed on that, in parallel with physical efforts to hasten this outcome. Reality slaps Shitbag on his pointy little head. Looks like the USMC logistics school doesn't teach map reading. Holy shit!  NeanderThor LeakingBrain is too scared to directly address his master. Owned again x infinity x infinity x infinty. My boots better be licked to perfection. slave. Hahaha 😂🤣😂🤣😂 |
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Post by Lomelis on Oct 14, 2022 4:23:21 GMT
More baloney, demos. More whataboutery. More of you twisting in the wind to avoid addressing things that make you uncomfortable. You must be a graduate of the Kellyanne Conway School of Alternative Facts. What whataboutery? What baloney?
Your points were addressed and since you can't respond to them you're just going to flail about in this manner.
Demos. You're dealing with a moron. He admittedly has brain damage. You can't get anywhere with it. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Oct 14, 2022 4:23:34 GMT
Personally I think it would be great if a Putin-free, peaceful Russia were to join NATO as well.
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thor
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Post by thor on Oct 14, 2022 12:41:39 GMT
What whataboutery? What baloney?
Your points were addressed and since you can't respond to them you're just going to flail about in this manner.
Demos. You're dealing with a moron. He admittedly has brain damage. You can't get anywhere with it. Shitbag sez wut? Maybe you want to explain your inability to read a map? Now I KNOW Marines went without due to your incompetence. |
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Post by Lomelis on Oct 14, 2022 17:21:38 GMT
Demos. You're dealing with a moron. He admittedly has brain damage. You can't get anywhere with it. Shitbag sez wut? Maybe you want to explain your inability to read a map? Now I KNOW Marines went without due to your incompetence. NeanderTard's scrambled brain just oozes all over the forum again. Gross. My slave gets owned x inifinity x infinity x infinity again. Lick my boots well, slave. Hahaha 😂🤣😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2022 15:59:09 GMT
I'm sorry but statements of fact aren't anything except statements of fact.
Sure it's working out splendidly. For Europe. Right?
Are you one of those who thinks I'm paying 12 bucks for a 1lb package of oscar meyer sandwich meat and 4 bucks for a dozen eggs because of Putin?
If we had not entered the war, Ukraine would have already been forced to concede those territories. Even if we manage to force Putin out of those territories, the whole world is still worse off from the Biden administration splintering the world as East v West and destroying the liberal world order he claims he's defending.
You want to stop Putin from taking them, YOU go stop him. I'll be voting for candidates who want to stop sending billions to help the Ukrainian oligarchs and Western oil companies at the expense of American and European citizens.
Sorry demos. This thread isn't for this, but it seems an appropriate spot.
How do you manage to construct for yourself a world in which you can advocate for allowing people to have their homes annexed by a hostile, criminal, anti-democratic regime, whilst claiming to be a liberal? Gotta bump this hilarious post for when I have time to effectively construct a reply that doubles down on my usual style, grace and wit. Hint: It'll say things like "How do you construct for yourself a world in which you can advocate for allowing people of a nation to have their money that would literally save their lives being stolen from them and from their children and redirected towards wars over oil on the other side of the world whilst claiming to be a liberal?"
Lots and lots of things like that.
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Post by VYPR on Oct 16, 2022 13:47:29 GMT
How do you manage to construct for yourself a world in which you can advocate for allowing people to have their homes annexed by a hostile, criminal, anti-democratic regime, whilst claiming to be a liberal? Gotta bump this hilarious post for when I have time to effectively construct a reply that doubles down on my usual style, grace and wit. Hint: It'll say things like "How do you construct for yourself a world in which you can advocate for allowing people of a nation to have their money that would literally save their lives being stolen from them and from their children and redirected towards wars over oil on the other side of the world whilst claiming to be a liberal?"
Lots and lots of things like that.
It's not a war over oil you halfwit. Limey gets it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 15:15:49 GMT
Gotta bump this hilarious post for when I have time to effectively construct a reply that doubles down on my usual style, grace and wit. Hint: It'll say things like "How do you construct for yourself a world in which you can advocate for allowing people of a nation to have their money that would literally save their lives being stolen from them and from their children and redirected towards wars over oil on the other side of the world whilst claiming to be a liberal?" Lots and lots of things like that.
It's not a war over oil you halfwit. Limey gets it. Yes ... it is, quarterwit (haha GOT EM!) I gotta hand it to the neocons. That's some strong juju that has made American leftists forget that all of this chaos started after oil was discovered in .... wait for it ... Eastern Ukraine and Crimea in ... WAIT FOR IT ... late 2013. Just before the United States helped bring about a coup on behalf of Western oil companies like Exxon and Shell. Cuz freedom and democracy or some such.
And it's just a coincidence ... a bizarre one at that! ... that a goodly share of the oil and gas being sold to Europe runs on pipelines through Ukraine. Just a coincidence. Just like it's just a coincidence that Russia is a petro state and it's entire ruling order's power structure is built around the sale of oil and gas to the world and especially Europe that would be severely compromised by Ukraine developing its own natgas and oil resources (so recently and coincidentally discovered in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea) and cutting off the use of the Soviet era pipelines and replacing Russia on the world stage as the primary supplier of oil and gas to the West (thru contracts granted to Western companies like Shell and Exxon.)
Watch this eighthwit (hahahahah GOT EM!) .... this is links to all of the information I've been bringing up since this became a major discussion (hahaha) point on the boards circa January 2022. See if you can suss out which ones are right wing Tucker Carlson and/or neocon sources.
After watching limey out himself as a religious zealot in conversation after conversation on the boards the past several years, it doesn't surprise me he's a True Believer for the Holy Cause. WTF is wrong with the rest of the so called atheist left I have no clue.
Lemme ask you something Vypr. I can understand why the US government is so worried about Western control of fossil fuels. The US government has to deal with the real world, not pie in the sky religious beliefs about wind and solar energy.
But why is the American left so focused on and eager to harness these antiquated and polluting form of energy from the 20th century? Don't they have their eyes on 21st century energy sources?
That's some strong fucking juju to make the American left so totally discount credible sources in favor of government propagandists during the most propagandized era in American history. Almost makes one wonder what the American government and intelligence/diplomatic services did with all of those workpapers they gathered from DOCTOR Joseph Goebbels.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 15:18:50 GMT
When you start to figure out that both limey AND demos are wrong about what constitutes an "existential threat" to Russia's ruling order ... and Ukraine establishing ties with the West to sell their own oil and natural gas replacing Russia's use of pipelines built during the Soviet era is exactly that ... it starts to become clear why Russia will never back down and the only question has been and remains how far the United States is willing to escalate this conflict over oil to the detriment of the entire world.
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 16, 2022 16:22:04 GMT
When you start to figure out that both limey AND demos are wrong about what constitutes an "existential threat" to Russia's ruling order ... and Ukraine establishing ties with the West to sell their own oil and natural gas replacing Russia's use of pipelines built during the Soviet era is exactly that ... it starts to become clear why Russia will never back down and the only question has been and remains how far the United States is willing to escalate this conflict over oil to the detriment of the entire world. While I wouldn't disagree that oil and gas is an important aspect of this conflict, I think the war has changed the dynamics enough that Ukraine's ties to the West are not such an existential threat to Russia's ruling elite. For example, Russia is finding other markets for its oil, including the Gulf States who are buying Russia oil. Also, since this conflict will end in some sort of negotiated settlement (there's not going to be some fantasized unconditional surrender), Russia will probably keep some of this oil and gas rich territory or gain access/rights to it in exchange for some concessions, e.g., Ukrainian membership in the EU.
At this point, the only way this conflict escalates into an existential threat is if NATO becomes involved in direct conflict with Russia (which some of the Baltic states seem to be wanting/encouraging).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 16:43:10 GMT
When you start to figure out that both limey AND demos are wrong about what constitutes an "existential threat" to Russia's ruling order ... and Ukraine establishing ties with the West to sell their own oil and natural gas replacing Russia's use of pipelines built during the Soviet era is exactly that ... it starts to become clear why Russia will never back down and the only question has been and remains how far the United States is willing to escalate this conflict over oil to the detriment of the entire world. While I wouldn't disagree that oil and gas is an important aspect of this conflict, I think the war has changed the dynamics enough that Ukraine's ties to the West are not such an existential threat to Russia's ruling elite. For example, Russia is finding other markets for its oil, including the Gulf States who are buying Russia oil. Also, since this conflict will end in some sort of negotiated settlement (there's not going to be some fantasized unconditional surrender), Russia will probably keep some of this oil and gas rich territory or gain access/rights to it in exchange for some concessions, e.g., Ukrainian membership in the EU.
At this point, the only way this conflict escalates into an existential threat is if NATO becomes involved in direct conflict with Russia (which some of the Baltic states seem to be wanting/encouraging).
(Waiver: We're probably a little closer aligned on this than this post will suggest..)
Yabbut ... Russia's other markets include people repackaging Russian energy products for sale back to the EU. I think it was an article from you that I saw that little loophole being exploited. Altho take that with a grain of salt cuz I can't find a similar article in a five minute search behind all the propaganda sites blasting search engines.
It's no longer an existential threat to Russia's ruling class because Russia has stopped Ukraine from exploiting those resources to sell to the EU. When their 8 year attempt at diplomacy failed, they upped the ante. There's still X amount of energy available in the world and Russia still controls 20% of it. (More once Gazprom starts harnessing the oil and gas they've stolen from Ukraine.)
Russia is still gambling on a return to normal as Europe reaches a breaking point and has to turn the gas back on. We might just be looking at a different global picture around January next year as the attrition of keeping the heat low in European households reaches a breaking point. Russia expects to go back to business not having to sell discounted oil once they break the European people. The elites in government and businesses in the West will always be willing fight because they stand to profit the most from getting poor Ukrainians to do the fighting for them. And what do they care about $1,000 a month energy bills? But what about those whose main grievance ISNT that Russian caviar is now hard to get?
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Post by limey² on Oct 16, 2022 17:01:13 GMT
When you start to figure out that both limey AND demos are wrong about what constitutes an "existential threat" to Russia's ruling order ... and Ukraine establishing ties with the West to sell their own oil and natural gas replacing Russia's use of pipelines built during the Soviet era is exactly that ... it starts to become clear why Russia will never back down and the only question has been and remains how far the United States is willing to escalate this conflict over oil to the detriment of the entire world. While I wouldn't disagree that oil and gas is an important aspect of this conflict, I think the war has changed the dynamics enough that Ukraine's ties to the West are not such an existential threat to Russia's ruling elite. For example, Russia is finding other markets for its oil, including the Gulf States who are buying Russia oil. Also, since this conflict will end in some sort of negotiated settlement (there's not going to be some fantasized unconditional surrender), Russia will probably keep some of this oil and gas rich territory or gain access/rights to it in exchange for some concessions, e.g., Ukrainian membership in the EU.
At this point, the only way this conflict escalates into an existential threat is if NATO becomes involved in direct conflict with Russia (which some of the Baltic states seem to be wanting/encouraging).
The wild cards here are: 1. Military success by Ukraine. 2. De-carbonisation of energy It's plausible that Russia won't have the option to "keep some of this oil and gas rich territory"having been decisively defeated and physically removed. In such a scenario, possibly some grimly ugly "ethnic cleansing" of disputed regions, with Ukrain sending pro-Russians over the border with a few packing crates and a €1000 parting gift, will ensue. Several European nations are potentially less than 15 years from a non-fossil energy system right now. The medium term value of Ukranian deposits is in doubt. "Two bald men fighting over a comb" springs to mind. Disregarding all this,fact is, Russia's attack is entirely unjustifiable and entirely wrong. Assisting Ukraine is plainly the right thing to do. Only a bell-end would argue otherwise. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 10:18:49 GMT
Lemme ask you something Vypr. I can understand why the US government is so worried about Western control of fossil fuels. The US government has to deal with the real world, not pie in the sky religious beliefs about wind and solar energy. But why is the American left so focused on and eager to harness these antiquated and polluting form of energy from the 20th century? Don't they have their eyes on 21st century energy sources?
That's some strong fucking juju to make the American left so totally discount credible sources in favor of government propagandists during the most propagandized era in American history. Almost makes one wonder what the American government and intelligence/diplomatic services did with all of those workpapers they gathered from DOCTOR Joseph Goebbels. Noted right wing Fox News personality Fareed Zakaria this morning:
We are living in the age of government mediocrity. This is what it's like to live at the end of a golden age. For two generations now our best and our brightest have been funneled away from politics and public service and into tech and finance. The great statesmen of yesteryear have all died off. And the back benchers like Biden and the second rate citizenry that couldn't make it in tech and weren't smart enough to get an MBA that constitute the American bureaucracy are now running the car their betters built into the ditch.
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