I see funding the Ukrainian war as the best anti-war move we could make, and opposition to such funding as a very pro-war policy stance. I know. I'm crazy.
This is the rationalization the entire neocon ideology rests on.
It literally started with Viet Nam and preventing the Chicom from expanding. Supporting the South VietNamese during the Vietnamese war was seen as "the best anti war move" we could make. Paul Wolfowitz and those who decided to "reshape" the Middle East literally see it was the best "anti war" move they could make, and see those who don't support our bringing civilization to the Middle East as being pro war, pro terrorist and pro chaos. The white man's burden maybe needs an update to "the Western man's burden?"
There's no trickery involved. I'm not entirely sure why Mojo is thinking he was punked into supporting a war. Supporters of Viet Nam weren't "tricked" either.
They were persuaded. As you and Mojo were. Thru the use of propaganda. As pro war supporters always do.
I'm not anti war. I'm anti dumb war.
Getting in the middle of THIS ... is a dumb war.
^^ That's the results of the last election the citizens of Eastern Ukraine were allowed to participate in. They've been under siege (by Western Ukraine) every election since and the polling stations have been closed.
The only interest we have in the land those ethnic Russians that speak Russian and want closer ties to Russia live on is the oil and gas deposits discovered AFTER this election. Cuz it sure ain't democracy. In fact, "democracy" is taking some major hits around the world because of the tortured rationalizations using it as a justification for our involvement.
It's a mistake to think I actually care about any of this. This is the distortion in political discussion that the use of widespread propaganda has wrought on posters here. I don't care who wins or loses. I've just spent 2 years pointing out that the facts are ... Ukraine loses. And the only thing we're doing in the meantime is propping up our economy. "There's always money in the banana stand!" It's too bad Europe didn't spend the last 70 years basing their economy on military spending and weapons production or they'd maybe be in a better economic state too.
I see funding the Ukrainian war as the best anti-war move we could make, and opposition to such funding as a very pro-war policy stance. I know. I'm crazy.
This is the rationalization the entire neocon ideology rests on.
It literally started with Viet Nam and preventing the Chicom from expanding. Supporting the South VietNamese during the Vietnamese war was seen as "the best anti war move" we could make. Paul Wolfowitz and those who decided to "reshape" the Middle East literally see it was the best "anti war" move they could make, and see those who don't support our bringing civilization to the Middle East as being pro war, pro terrorist and pro chaos. The white man's burden maybe needs an update to "the Western man's burden?"
There's no trickery involved. I'm not entirely sure why Mojo is thinking he was punked into supporting a war. Supporters of Viet Nam weren't "tricked" either.
They were persuaded. As you and Mojo were. Thru the use of propaganda. As pro war supporters always do.
I'm not anti war. I'm anti dumb war.
Getting in the middle of THIS ... is a dumb war.
^^ That's the results of the last election the citizens of Eastern Ukraine were allowed to participate in. They've been under siege (by Western Ukraine) every election since and the polling stations have been closed.
The only interest we have in the land those ethnic Russians that speak Russian and want closer ties to Russia live on is the oil and gas deposits discovered AFTER this election. Cuz it sure ain't democracy. In fact, "democracy" is taking some major hits around the world because of the tortured rationalizations using it as a justification for our involvement.
It's a mistake to think I actually care about any of this. This is the distortion in political discussion that the use of widespread propaganda has wrought on posters here. I don't care who wins or loses. I've just spent 2 years pointing out that the facts are ... Ukraine loses. And the only thing we're doing in the meantime is propping up our economy. "There's always money in the banana stand!" It's too bad Europe didn't spend the last 70 years basing their economy on military spending and weapons production or they'd maybe be in a better economic state too.
Queshank
And then we look at who controls what as of the last couple of months...
Huh.
"...continuing the adoption of masks, social distancing, and even lockdowns will be vital in preserving the human race against covid." -Ulysses
"...maybe this was Trump's last attempt to STAY in power by killing the VP, Pelosi and most of Congress." -Greg
"Did you know that about 2% of babies are intersex? That means that they are born with the physical appearance of one sex, but actually have functioning gonads of another. 2%!" -Freon
How much prepping the left for war was the Ukraine impeachment and the 4 years of lies about Russia stealing the 2016 election for the Trumplicans?
99.99% of the job done.
Queshank
BTW ... @mojo ... if you really want to understand the difference between Trumplicans and so called "Democrats" on this issue .... look no further than ^^.
It's not that Trumplicans have been freebasing Russian propaganda as left wing outlets like MSNBC and CNN and the NY Times claim.
It's that Trumplicans did NOT freebase the anti Russian propaganda left wing outlets like MSNBC and CNN and the NY Times have been pushing the past decade.
You weren't "tricked." You were persuaded. By the oldest and most surefire method of persuasion in human history. Repetition.
It's not a smart thing, it's not a dumb thing, it's a human thing.
How much prepping the left for war was the Ukraine impeachment and the 4 years of lies about Russia stealing the 2016 election for the Trumplicans?
99.99% of the job done.
Queshank
BTW ... @mojo ... if you really want to understand the difference between Trumplicans and so called "Democrats" on this issue .... look no further than ^^.
It's not that Trumplicans have been freebasing Russian propaganda as left wing outlets like MSNBC and CNN and the NY Times claim.
It's that Trumplicans did NOT freebase the anti Russian propaganda left wing outlets like MSNBC and CNN and the NY Times have been pushing the past decade.
You weren't "tricked." You were persuaded. By the oldest and most surefire method of persuasion in human history. Repetition.
It's not a smart thing, it's not a dumb thing, it's a human thing.
Queshank
That's a bit conspiratorial, no?
Our government couldn't find OBL in the desert for years. Yet, they're effective enough to lay the groundwork to get the left behind a war? That's far too much credit. We're all simply reacting to events, IMO.
BTW ... @mojo ... if you really want to understand the difference between Trumplicans and so called "Democrats" on this issue .... look no further than ^^.
It's not that Trumplicans have been freebasing Russian propaganda as left wing outlets like MSNBC and CNN and the NY Times claim.
It's that Trumplicans did NOT freebase the anti Russian propaganda left wing outlets like MSNBC and CNN and the NY Times have been pushing the past decade.
You weren't "tricked." You were persuaded. By the oldest and most surefire method of persuasion in human history. Repetition.
It's not a smart thing, it's not a dumb thing, it's a human thing.
Queshank
That's a bit conspiratorial, no?
How is that conspiratorial?
Are you suggesting a narrative about Ukraine and Russia hasn't been being peddled for the past 8 years for domestic political reasons?
Our government couldn't find OBL in the desert for years. Yet, they're effective enough to lay the groundwork to get the left behind a war? That's far too much credit. We're all simply reacting to events, IMO.
Lol. You are reading waaaay too much into what I wrote. This is common on the boards but usually not with you, it's usually with the board trash. Where did I say it was by design or a precursor to war?
"Never letting a crisis go to waste" doesn't involve making sure you have a pre loaded narrative going for any potential crises. You don't go to war with the narrative you want. You goto war with the narrative you have. To repurpose that old saw.
McCain and Graham would be proud of my support right now. :/
Hey man if I thought it'd make a difference I'd shout a slava ukraine once in awhile too. These are my cousins. Grandparents on both sides of my family come from the Odessa oblast. (back when everyone in the world called it .... South Russia. Before the USSR.)
That's been one of the most perplexing things in the change on issues and the approach to issues discussed on the boards over time. The strange belief that what we say and what we discuss here actually matters, and we can't discuss specific elements of these issues or we will sunder reality or some shit.
Things would have to become very bad if they needed to save their own lives. I don't see it coming to that point. If things do become hopeless they may have no choice, but I don't think we're there yet. They'll be burdened with debt already, so I doubt Ukraine aid will be a large part of it.
Oh my. You haven't been paying attention to anything that's been happening in Ukraine since Oct 7 have you?
It's not been good.
We shouldn't be burdening our future generations with -more- debt. I know you old leftists don't have a problem with that as ya'll be passing away soon enough but it's fucked up what you're doing. The elderly population is supposed to look out for and guide the younger generations, not burden them excessive debt and poverty because of your own greed and selfishness.
Fucking boomers, most worthless generation that the US has ever produced.
OK, Groomer.
Remember, Groomer, you failed at an eighth-grade job.
Things would have to become very bad if they needed to save their own lives. I don't see it coming to that point. If things do become hopeless they may have no choice, but I don't think we're there yet. They'll be burdened with debt already, so I doubt Ukraine aid will be a large part of it.
Oh my. You haven't been paying attention to anything that's been happening in Ukraine since Oct 7 have you?
It's not been good.
We shouldn't be burdening our future generations with -more- debt. I know you old leftists don't have a problem with that as ya'll be passing away soon enough but it's fucked up what you're doing. The elderly population is supposed to look out for and guide the younger generations, not burden them excessive debt and poverty because of your own greed and selfishness.
Fucking boomers, most worthless generation that the US has ever produced.
There hasn't been much to pay attention to since the battlefield lines haven't moved that much. I read that the Russians took a town/city a few weeks ago, but that's about it. They are supposedly waiting for better weather during the summer to start their offensive. I'm guessing they won't begin on June 22nd.
Each party has added to the debt over time. And every generation is greedy and selfish to some degree. I've never thought that one generation is better or worse than another. People have no control over when they're born or the the situations they are born into which influence much of their behavior.
Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.
Things would have to become very bad if they needed to save their own lives. I don't see it coming to that point. If things do become hopeless they may have no choice, but I don't think we're there yet. They'll be burdened with debt already, so I doubt Ukraine aid will be a large part of it.
Oh my. You haven't been paying attention to anything that's been happening in Ukraine since Oct 7 have you?
It's not been good.
We shouldn't be burdening our future generations with -more- debt. I know you old leftists don't have a problem with that as ya'll be passing away soon enough but it's fucked up what you're doing. The elderly population is supposed to look out for and guide the younger generations, not burden them excessive debt and poverty because of your own greed and selfishness.
Fucking boomers, most worthless generation that the US has ever produced.
I see funding the Ukrainian war as the best anti-war move we could make, and opposition to such funding as a very pro-war policy stance. I know. I'm crazy.
This is the rationalization the entire neocon ideology rests on.
It literally started with Viet Nam and preventing the Chicom from expanding. Supporting the South VietNamese during the Vietnamese war was seen as "the best anti war move" we could make. Paul Wolfowitz and those who decided to "reshape" the Middle East literally see it was the best "anti war" move they could make, and see those who don't support our bringing civilization to the Middle East as being pro war, pro terrorist and pro chaos. The white man's burden maybe needs an update to "the Western man's burden?"
That's quite a bit of historical revision. Those were not anti-war narratives, those were pro-war narratives. And I was opposed to our adventure to reshape the ME.
In Ukraine, there is no such "anti-war" (read pro-war) narrative. No one is trying to remake Ukraine, other than pro-war Russia.
There's no trickery involved. I'm not entirely sure why Mojo is thinking he was punked into supporting a war. Supporters of Viet Nam weren't "tricked" either.
They were persuaded. As you and Mojo were. Thru the use of propaganda. As pro war supporters always do.
I'm not anti war. I'm anti dumb war.
Getting in the middle of THIS ... is a dumb war.
I'm not worried about Ukraine only. Of course I do have concern but this issue is much bigger than Ukraine. It involves Moldova, the Baltics, possible the Kazakhstan and maybe Poland.
^^ That's the results of the last election the citizens of Eastern Ukraine were allowed to participate in. They've been under siege (by Western Ukraine) every election since and the polling stations have been closed.
Wait a minute. We don't even trust elections in the US and now we are going to trust one by Russia in a country they have eyes on, while it is under military occupation?
The presence of those polite little green men.. kinda throws the whole idea of a free and fair election out the window doesn't it?
The only interest we have in the land those ethnic Russians that speak Russian and want closer ties to Russia live on is the oil and gas deposits discovered AFTER this election. Cuz it sure ain't democracy. In fact, "democracy" is taking some major hits around the world because of the tortured rationalizations using it as a justification for our involvement.
It's a mistake to think I actually care about any of this. This is the distortion in political discussion that the use of widespread propaganda has wrought on posters here. I don't care who wins or loses. I've just spent 2 years pointing out that the facts are ... Ukraine loses. And the only thing we're doing in the meantime is propping up our economy. "There's always money in the banana stand!" It's too bad Europe didn't spend the last 70 years basing their economy on military spending and weapons production or they'd maybe be in a better economic state too.
Queshank
I disagree. I think our interests are to avoid a series of imperial wars that could possibly drag us and our allies into a direct confrontation. Recall.. this isn't just about Ukraine. This is about Russia seeking to reestablish a geographic buffer zone which essentially means reinventing the USSR.
Last Edit: Apr 23, 2024 12:15:48 GMT by RinsePrius
If the Democrats were smart they would be hoping they don't. Because when Ukraine continues to lose, there won't be convenient scapegoats to blame their disasters and fuckups on.
People literally are stupid enough to think the Republicans are making Ukraine lose. Literally stupid enough.
Queshank
Buried in your bizarre interpretation of reality, is an actual prediction.
Queshank believes Ukraine will lose, no matter what.
Combined, the new evidence challenges the credibility of the two US military investigations and raises serious questions for the Pentagon, which has continued to dismiss mounting evidence that civilians were shot dead.
This is the rationalization the entire neocon ideology rests on.
It literally started with Viet Nam and preventing the Chicom from expanding. Supporting the South VietNamese during the Vietnamese war was seen as "the best anti war move" we could make. Paul Wolfowitz and those who decided to "reshape" the Middle East literally see it was the best "anti war" move they could make, and see those who don't support our bringing civilization to the Middle East as being pro war, pro terrorist and pro chaos. The white man's burden maybe needs an update to "the Western man's burden?"
That's quite a bit of historical revision. Those were not anti-war narratives, those were pro-war narratives. And I was opposed to our adventure to reshape the ME.
In Ukraine, there is no such "anti-war" (read pro-war) narrative. No one is trying to remake Ukraine, other than pro-war Russia.
There's no trickery involved. I'm not entirely sure why Mojo is thinking he was punked into supporting a war. Supporters of Viet Nam weren't "tricked" either.
They were persuaded. As you and Mojo were. Thru the use of propaganda. As pro war supporters always do.
I'm not anti war. I'm anti dumb war.
Getting in the middle of THIS ... is a dumb war.
I'm not worried about Ukraine only. Of course I do have concern but this issue is much bigger than Ukraine. It involves Moldova, the Baltics, possible the Kazakhstan and maybe Poland.
^^ That's the results of the last election the citizens of Eastern Ukraine were allowed to participate in. They've been under siege (by Western Ukraine) every election since and the polling stations have been closed.
Wait a minute. We don't even trust elections in the US and now we are going to trust one by Russia in a country they have eyes on, while it is under military occupation?
The presence of those polite little green men.. kinda throws the whole idea of a free and fair election out the window doesn't it?
The only interest we have in the land those ethnic Russians that speak Russian and want closer ties to Russia live on is the oil and gas deposits discovered AFTER this election. Cuz it sure ain't democracy. In fact, "democracy" is taking some major hits around the world because of the tortured rationalizations using it as a justification for our involvement.
It's a mistake to think I actually care about any of this. This is the distortion in political discussion that the use of widespread propaganda has wrought on posters here. I don't care who wins or loses. I've just spent 2 years pointing out that the facts are ... Ukraine loses. And the only thing we're doing in the meantime is propping up our economy. "There's always money in the banana stand!" It's too bad Europe didn't spend the last 70 years basing their economy on military spending and weapons production or they'd maybe be in a better economic state too.
Queshank
I disagree. I think our interests are to avoid a series of imperial wars that could possibly drag us and our allies into a direct confrontation. Recall.. this isn't just about Ukraine. This is about Russia seeking to reestablish a geographic buffer zone which essentially means reinventing the USSR.
I get it.
Things you disagree with are "revisionist." What neo cons believe about the ChiCom threat to the rest of the world is "revisionist." The fact that they use the same tortured rationalizations you do is invisible to you because of your cognitive dissonance. (Not a dig, a real observation on what you're displaying.)
Your *belief* that Russia is poised to sweep thru Europe tho, that's based on an accurate read of the current geopolitical situation. /giggle
You also seem to be attempting to apply a little revisionist magic to this thread in real time. That map I shared is the 2010 elections that later led to the coup which replaced the victor in those elections. I don't know what you thought I meant by "this was the last election the people of Eastern Ukraine were allowed to participate in" meant. But I think it was very clear when I pointed out the reason they haven't been able to vote since is they've been under siege by Western Ukraine since those results. Those aren't Russia's election results. Those are the same Ukrainian election results Western officials use to claim "Ukraine" is pro West.
If the Democrats were smart they would be hoping they don't. Because when Ukraine continues to lose, there won't be convenient scapegoats to blame their disasters and fuckups on.
People literally are stupid enough to think the Republicans are making Ukraine lose. Literally stupid enough.
Queshank
Buried in your bizarre interpretation of reality, is an actual prediction.
Queshank believes Ukraine will lose, no matter what.
We'll see.
Freon
Sometimes I wonder whether TL was always this dumb. Then I remember ... yes.