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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 19, 2024 21:55:28 GMT
You repeating yourself does not make you correct. People worship all kinds of things...gods, idols, etc. In the Bible. Outside the Bible. The definition of worship in the dictionary and in the Bible is not specifically "worship of God." Otherwise there would be no reason to add "of God" to "worship." My claim here is backed by etymology, theology, biblical literature, etc. It is not unique to me. It is not idiosyncratic. Again, the root of the English word "worth-ship" was a coined word created to translate "kiss (the ground) towards," which was an act of obeisance...to rulers, to deities, etc. When Jesus responds to Satan's temptation and says, "You shall worship the Lord your God," he is using the word proskuneo. When Jesus tells the woman at the well that "a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks," it implies that there are "true worshipers" and "not true worshipers." But you're welcome to suggest something other than "your definition is wrong" (despite my offering a dictionary definition and the biblical root). Yes, you can "worship" things... by essentially making them your God, but is not the same thing as you saying everyone worships because everyone has a hierarchy of things... that is not in the definition you provided. It is wrong. This is exactly what I have been saying. Everyone has a hierarchy of values and aims. What's at the top? What you consider of highest worth. The aim towards that is the act of worship. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 19, 2024 22:00:16 GMT
Yes, you can "worship" things... by essentially making them your God, but is not the same thing as you saying everyone worships because everyone has a hierarchy of things... that is not in the definition you provided. It is wrong. This is exactly what I have been saying. Everyone has a hierarchy of values and aims. What's at the top? What you consider of highest worth. The aim towards that is the act of worship. Nope. Having a hierarchy of worth doesn't mean you worship what is at the top at all. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 19, 2024 22:50:45 GMT
This is exactly what I have been saying. Everyone has a hierarchy of values and aims. What's at the top? What you consider of highest worth. The aim towards that is the act of worship. Nope. Having a hierarchy of worth doesn't mean you worship what is at the top at all. So what is at the top of your hierarchy, your aim, your intent, basically the focus of your life...doesn't get your attention? It is "worth" nothing? Weird. |
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 19, 2024 23:14:16 GMT
So, what would you say I worship? You claimed that your highest aim is "to live long and prosper." That seems to indicate that you worship yourself. That's a bit bizarre, as a remark. What allows you to conclude that I am the only one benefiting from my prosperity?
You can't help your friends if you're poor, or dead.
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 19, 2024 23:18:14 GMT
Btw, Jesus himself said: "There will be more room in heaven for one repentant sinner than for ninety nine righteous." Or something like that... Not more room...more celebration. So you don't get a bigger house like in "The Good Place"? How disappointing...
More celebration can mean more room, in people's hearts...  |
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Worship?
Apr 19, 2024 23:33:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Monster Man on Apr 19, 2024 23:33:49 GMT
Nope. Having a hierarchy of worth doesn't mean you worship what is at the top at all. So what is at the top of your hierarchy, your aim, your intent, basically the focus of your life...doesn't get your attention? It is "worth" nothing? Weird. Wow. You should go talk to yourself in notepad somewhere. The discussion between us isn’t about what gets attention. No, it’s not worth nothing. Any other completely irrelevant questions? |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 2:41:40 GMT
You claimed that your highest aim is "to live long and prosper." That seems to indicate that you worship yourself. That's a bit bizarre, as a remark. What allows you to conclude that I am the only one benefiting from my prosperity?
You can't help your friends if you're poor, or dead.
Ah, then maybe you have a higher aim than just living long and prospering. Maybe you have a reason (or reasons) to live long and prosper that go beyond just living long and prospering. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 2:43:01 GMT
So what is at the top of your hierarchy, your aim, your intent, basically the focus of your life...doesn't get your attention? It is "worth" nothing? Weird. Wow. You should go talk to yourself in notepad somewhere. The discussion between us isn’t about what gets attention. No, it’s not worth nothing. Any other completely irrelevant questions? Worship is, in a sense, giving attention. You pay attention to your aim or your goal. In fact, there are people who have subconscious goals that are only revealed by what they are paying attention to. This isn't really difficult to follow... |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 20, 2024 3:54:12 GMT
Wow. You should go talk to yourself in notepad somewhere. The discussion between us isn’t about what gets attention. No, it’s not worth nothing. Any other completely irrelevant questions? Worship is, in a sense, giving attention. You pay attention to your aim or your goal. In fact, there are people who have subconscious goals that are only revealed by what they are paying attention to. This isn't really difficult to follow... Its called a Venn Diagram and basic logic. Yes, you are giving attention to what you worship... but that doesn't make all attention worship. You pay attention to the road when you are driving... you are not worshiping the road. For crying out loud, come on. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Apr 20, 2024 6:09:56 GMT
So, what would you say I worship? You claimed that your highest aim is "to live long and prosper." That seems to indicate that you worship yourself.
Actually that's a phrase from Star Trek, as I recall.
Yes, it was Spock's favorite phrase...
Not that there is anything wrong with living long and propering.
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Worship?
Apr 20, 2024 8:01:30 GMT
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 20, 2024 8:01:30 GMT
That's a bit bizarre, as a remark. What allows you to conclude that I am the only one benefiting from my prosperity?
You can't help your friends if you're poor, or dead.
Ah, then maybe you have a higher aim than just living long and prospering. Maybe you have a reason (or reasons) to live long and prosper that go beyond just living long and prospering. No, I don't think so. Being healthy and wealthy and wise (to almost quote someone) is enough but that doesn't mean that I don't take care of people I love (and not worship). I think you're stretching things a little too thin or clutching at straws if you will. Don't you feel it? |
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Worship?
Apr 20, 2024 13:46:01 GMT
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 13:46:01 GMT
Worship is, in a sense, giving attention. You pay attention to your aim or your goal. In fact, there are people who have subconscious goals that are only revealed by what they are paying attention to. This isn't really difficult to follow... Its called a Venn Diagram and basic logic. Yes, you are giving attention to what you worship... but that doesn't make all attention worship. You pay attention to the road when you are driving... you are not worshiping the road. For crying out loud, come on. I’m not talking about “any attention” at all. In fact, you typically only give partial attention to the road while driving. You’re like a terrier gripping the heel of a bull thinking you’re winning. You’re arguing just to argue from your limited closed perspective that actually ignores the meanings of words in the original language of the Bible you claim to believe. Just stop. |
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Worship?
Apr 20, 2024 13:47:01 GMT
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 13:47:01 GMT
Ah, then maybe you have a higher aim than just living long and prospering. Maybe you have a reason (or reasons) to live long and prosper that go beyond just living long and prospering. No, I don't think so. Being healthy and wealthy and wise (to almost quote someone) is enough but that doesn't mean that I don't take care of people I love (and not worship). I think you're stretching things a little too thin or clutching at straws if you will. Don't you feel it? No, I’m suggesting you that your pursuit of health and wealth might actually be in the purpose of a higher aim. |
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Worship?
Apr 20, 2024 13:48:08 GMT
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 13:48:08 GMT
You claimed that your highest aim is "to live long and prosper." That seems to indicate that you worship yourself. Not that there is anything wrong with living long and propering.
There can be, if it’s at the expense of others. |
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Worship?
Apr 20, 2024 14:12:34 GMT
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 20, 2024 14:12:34 GMT
Not that there is anything wrong with living long and propering.
There can be, if it’s at the expense of others. Tell you what. It's always at the expense of others whether intentional or not. Resources are limited and everytime you get more than average, someone gets less. It's a question of proportion. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 20, 2024 14:13:35 GMT
Its called a Venn Diagram and basic logic. Yes, you are giving attention to what you worship... but that doesn't make all attention worship. You pay attention to the road when you are driving... you are not worshiping the road. For crying out loud, come on. I’m not talking about “any attention” at all. In fact, you typically only give partial attention to the road while driving. You’re like a terrier gripping the heel of a bull thinking you’re winning. You’re arguing just to argue from your limited closed perspective that actually ignores the meanings of words in the original language of the Bible you claim to believe. Just stop. Projection. I am the one actually using the meanings of the words here and every time I pin you down on that you have to pivot to attacking me instead. |
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Worship?
Apr 20, 2024 16:29:36 GMT
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 20, 2024 16:29:36 GMT
I’m not talking about “any attention” at all. In fact, you typically only give partial attention to the road while driving. You’re like a terrier gripping the heel of a bull thinking you’re winning. You’re arguing just to argue from your limited closed perspective that actually ignores the meanings of words in the original language of the Bible you claim to believe. Just stop. Projection. I am the one actually using the meanings of the words here and every time I pin you down on that you have to pivot to attacking me instead. How true, I've never seen you attack anybody... I believe also that there's snow boarding in hell, to use a colloquialism. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 20, 2024 17:17:37 GMT
Projection. I am the one actually using the meanings of the words here and every time I pin you down on that you have to pivot to attacking me instead. How true, I've never seen you attack anybody... I believe also that there's snow boarding in hell, to use a colloquialism. See? Good thing I stuck around. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 22:53:26 GMT
I’m not talking about “any attention” at all. In fact, you typically only give partial attention to the road while driving. You’re like a terrier gripping the heel of a bull thinking you’re winning. You’re arguing just to argue from your limited closed perspective that actually ignores the meanings of words in the original language of the Bible you claim to believe. Just stop. Projection. I am the one actually using the meanings of the words here and every time I pin you down on that you have to pivot to attacking me instead. I provided a dictionary definition of the English word and the etymology of the Greek origin of that word. You just said, "it doesn't mean that." |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 20, 2024 22:54:46 GMT
There can be, if it’s at the expense of others. Tell you what. It's always at the expense of others whether intentional or not. Resources are limited and everytime you get more than average, someone gets less. It's a question of proportion. It is a question of proportion, yes. But underlying all we do is still an ultimate aim (whether or not we recognize it). For example, when pressed on "live long and prosper," you didn't defend yourself with, "Of course! Look out for number 1! That's what matters...my own survival and well-being." |
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