bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Jun 19, 2020 5:55:01 GMT
That is some twisted shit, right there. Erecting monuments to perpetuate a myth, especially a myth based on the heroic aspects of a slave culture, does not promote curiosity. On the contrary, it mythologizes barbarism, intolerance and ignorance, setting it down in history as a worthy rival to freedom, tolerance and equality under the law in a nation of laws. There is no tyrant tearing down statues. There are real people tearing down statues. Neither is there a BLM driven narrative about slavery and the Confederate Rebellion which is anything other than righteously inspired. There is only truth or not truth, unless your aim is to proselytize while pretending that your mythology becomes everyone else's history. You can cite anecdotes until the last Negro is whipped or hung. For some, history is anecdotal. But what you say above is pure, straight from the cracker's mouth racist bullshit. You are part of the reason why these protests are happening. Take some responsibility. Folks, this is what the cancel culture of the leftists looks like. Rather than offering a reasonable, adult debate of the facts, we get a vicious, unwarranted and obscene tantrum designed to silence normal folks like me. It is pure intolerance of and the attempted suppression of anyone who might factually challenge the left's perverted propaganda on this subject, call out their barbaric tactics or suggest that the story is more complex and nuanced than they want to admit.
I struck a nerve though, didn't I? I usually don't get this kind of response unless I have.
These liberals really are afraid that historically knowledgeable folks like me might reveal and be able to defend the WHOLE and absolute truth, thus exposing their Goebbels style deceptions. They are afraid because it's the truth that I have delivered here, nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps next time, you too will have something substantive or intelligent to offer. But credit where it's due.....thanks for the laugh.
I suggest you take responsibility, and instead you take pride. I guess it really doesn't matter though, as either way you'd be stealing what only people like you would like to claim as valor. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 19, 2020 6:49:33 GMT
LOL, Fossilcon doesn't realize that the North blockaded Southern ports so they couldn't export their cotton during the war.
Time to attend another class, FC:
Remember, Fossilcon, you'll be tested on this subject matter later.
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 19, 2020 9:58:17 GMT
Oh yeah, you see, in five years, that 6% became 0% thanks to the putting down of those Southern traitors. Works for me. Greg How about the starvation deaths of thousands of blacks after the war, deaths that did not occur before 1860? Those work for you, too, Greggie.
And labeling them "Southern traitors" is still a lie, no matter how many times it's repeated.
What works for me is YOU not admitting the Southern traitors held 3.9 million human beings in forced labor camps on U.S. soil for over 200 years until the Confedacy was wiped off the face of the earth. You LOVE to trot out that 6% figure when addressing slave holders, but you ignore the FACT that 3.9 million people were being held against their will. The constitution did not work for them. This in the United States. Human beings bred like cattle and abused. As slaves in forced labor camps called plantations. Well, thankfully the Southern traitors were put down to end that horror. Greg |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 19, 2020 10:23:45 GMT
How about the starvation deaths of thousands of blacks after the war, deaths that did not occur before 1860? Those work for you, too, Greggie.
And labeling them "Southern traitors" is still a lie, no matter how many times it's repeated.
What works for me is YOU not admitting the Southern traitors held 3.9 million human beings in forced labor camps on U.S. soil for over 200 years until the Confedacy was wiped off the face of the earth. You LOVE to trot out that 6% figure when addressing slave holders, but you ignore the FACT that 3.9 million people were being held against their will. The constitution did not work for them. This in the United States. Human beings bred like cattle and abused. As slaves in forced labor camps called plantations. Well, thankfully the Southern traitors were put down to end that horror. Greg Amen.
Me too.
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 19, 2020 15:00:05 GMT
A bit of an over-simplification. Definitely. I'm just noting it and linking out (don't really want to derail the thread), because it's a little known part of our history. |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Jun 19, 2020 15:00:43 GMT
How about the starvation deaths of thousands of blacks after the war, deaths that did not occur before 1860? Those work for you, too, Greggie.
And labeling them "Southern traitors" is still a lie, no matter how many times it's repeated.
What works for me is YOU not admitting the Southern traitors held 3.9 million human beings in forced labor camps on U.S. soil for over 200 years until the Confedacy was wiped off the face of the earth. You LOVE to trot out that 6% figure when addressing slave holders, but you ignore the FACT that 3.9 million people were being held against their will. The constitution did not work for them. This in the United States. Human beings bred like cattle and abused. As slaves in forced labor camps called plantations. Well, thankfully the Southern traitors were put down to end that horror. Greg Yet people like him continue to hang onto a thread of what can only be called hope. It's worse than disgusting. It's despicable. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 15:53:34 GMT
How about the starvation deaths of thousands of blacks after the war, deaths that did not occur before 1860? Those work for you, too, Greggie.
And labeling them "Southern traitors" is still a lie, no matter how many times it's repeated.
What works for me is YOU not admitting the Southern traitors held 3.9 million human beings in forced labor camps on U.S. soil for over 200 years until the Confedacy was wiped off the face of the earth. You LOVE to trot out that 6% figure when addressing slave holders, but you ignore the FACT that 3.9 million people were being held against their will. The constitution did not work for them. This in the United States. Human beings bred like cattle and abused. As slaves in forced labor camps called plantations. Well, thankfully the Southern traitors were put down to end that horror. Greg Only a certifiable dullard clings to that "Southern traitor" garbage after it's been proven to be a lie. Thanks for the confirmation, but we already knew. Please tell me you can't be this ignorant about history. No, Southerners didn't hold 3.9 million people for over 200 years. The U.S. had only existed for 80 years prior to 1865. There were slaves in most colonies in 1787, not just the South. Only 500,000 Africans were ever brought to these shores! Only 4% of the total slave trade in history. The Confederacy didn't exist before 1860, so who do you think allowed those millions of slaves? THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND ALL OF THE PEOPLE.
Yet, these ignorant leftist fools concentrate only on the four years of the Confederacy. It just doesn't get more stupid than that.
And, Greg, do you have the courage to admit that Lincoln and his minions, not the South, were responsible for nearly all of the slave or ex-slave deaths during and after the war? Thousands of blacks died at the hands of the UNION, but that doesn't fit you narrative, does it? |
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 19, 2020 16:01:06 GMT
What works for me is YOU not admitting the Southern traitors held 3.9 million human beings in forced labor camps on U.S. soil for over 200 years until the Confedacy was wiped off the face of the earth. You LOVE to trot out that 6% figure when addressing slave holders, but you ignore the FACT that 3.9 million people were being held against their will. The constitution did not work for them. This in the United States. Human beings bred like cattle and abused. As slaves in forced labor camps called plantations. Well, thankfully the Southern traitors were put down to end that horror. Greg Only a certifiable dullard clings to that "Southern traitor" garbage after it's been proven to be a lie. Thanks for the confirmation, but we already knew. Please tell me you can't be this ignorant about history. No, Southerners didn't hold 3.9 million people for over 200 years. The U.S. had only existed for 80 years prior to 1865. There were slaves in most colonies in 1787, not just the South. Only 500,000 Africans were ever brought to these shores! Only 4% of the total slave trade in history. The Confederacy didn't exist before 1860, so who do you think allowed those millions of slaves? THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND ALL OF THE PEOPLE.
Yet, these ignorant leftist fools concentrate only on the four years of the Confederacy. It just doesn't get more stupid than that.
And, Greg, do you have the courage to admit that Lincoln and his minions, not the South, were responsible for nearly all of the slave or ex-slave deaths during and after the war? Thousands of blacks died at the hands of the UNION, but that doesn't fit you narrative, does it? Actually it DOES fit in. THINK about it. 3.9 million people suddenly FREE. Where will they go? What will they do? For the first time in their lives, they had to fend for themselves. It's no surprise thousands died, but MILLIONS lived FREE. The Southern traitors wanted them to remain in bondage. Thankfully that did not happen. Greg |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 16:05:33 GMT
What works for me is YOU not admitting the Southern traitors held 3.9 million human beings in forced labor camps on U.S. soil for over 200 years until the Confedacy was wiped off the face of the earth. You LOVE to trot out that 6% figure when addressing slave holders, but you ignore the FACT that 3.9 million people were being held against their will. The constitution did not work for them. This in the United States. Human beings bred like cattle and abused. As slaves in forced labor camps called plantations. Well, thankfully the Southern traitors were put down to end that horror. Greg Yet people like him continue to hang onto a thread of what can only be called hope. It's worse than disgusting. It's despicable. Leftists who lie about the history of the South and about that period are disgusting and despicable. My "hope" is that, rather than acting like animals and violently purging everything in sight, some will have the intelligence to learn a little about the complexities of that conflict and that era and that there are good and bad characteristics on all sides, then and now.
Don't they realize that they are stupidly judging a group of people using a false and simplistic caricature while decrying the use of such caricatures about blacks. Can you people not see how moronic and stupid this purge is?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 16:11:26 GMT
Only a certifiable dullard clings to that "Southern traitor" garbage after it's been proven to be a lie. Thanks for the confirmation, but we already knew. Please tell me you can't be this ignorant about history. No, Southerners didn't hold 3.9 million people for over 200 years. The U.S. had only existed for 80 years prior to 1865. There were slaves in most colonies in 1787, not just the South. Only 500,000 Africans were ever brought to these shores! Only 4% of the total slave trade in history. The Confederacy didn't exist before 1860, so who do you think allowed those millions of slaves? THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND ALL OF THE PEOPLE.
Yet, these ignorant leftist fools concentrate only on the four years of the Confederacy. It just doesn't get more stupid than that.
And, Greg, do you have the courage to admit that Lincoln and his minions, not the South, were responsible for nearly all of the slave or ex-slave deaths during and after the war? Thousands of blacks died at the hands of the UNION, but that doesn't fit you narrative, does it? Actually it DOES fit in. THINK about it. 3.9 million people suddenly FREE. Where will they go? What will they do? For the first time in their lives, they had to fend for themselves. It's no surprise thousands died, but MILLIONS lived FREE. The Southern traitors wanted them to remain in bondage. Thankfully that did not happen. Greg Every other society handled manumission peacefully, all without killing a large portion of the population being freed. The seceded South would have done the same, without killing the thousands that the Union slaughtered through neglect. And it's still idiotic and dishonest to call them Southern traitors; are you a slow learner? Would explain a lot.
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 19, 2020 16:18:44 GMT
Actually it DOES fit in. THINK about it. 3.9 million people suddenly FREE. Where will they go? What will they do? For the first time in their lives, they had to fend for themselves. It's no surprise thousands died, but MILLIONS lived FREE. The Southern traitors wanted them to remain in bondage. Thankfully that did not happen. Greg Every other society handled manumission peacefully, all without killing a large portion of the population being freed. The seceded South would have done the same, without killing the thousands that the Union slaughtered through neglect. And it's still idiotic and dishonest to call them Southern traitors; are you a slow learner? Would explain a lot.
You have your arms wrapped around numbers like 6%, 4%, 1%. These small figures give you comfort. You can't even bring yourself to say "3.9 million people were held in bondage". You just can't say it. Because if you DID say it, it would bring home the extent of wrong the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Good riddance to the traitors i say. Greg |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 16:55:32 GMT
Every other society handled manumission peacefully, all without killing a large portion of the population being freed. The seceded South would have done the same, without killing the thousands that the Union slaughtered through neglect. And it's still idiotic and dishonest to call them Southern traitors; are you a slow learner? Would explain a lot.
You have your arms wrapped around numbers like 6%, 4%, 1%. These small figures give you comfort. You can't even bring yourself to say "3.9 million people were held in bondage". You just can't say it. Because if you DID say it, it would bring home the extent of wrong the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Good riddance to the traitors i say. Greg No, what gives me comfort is seeing the whole picture, all of the truth. based on that standard, you must be very uncomfortable. I've never shied away from the 4 million total for slaves in 1860. Spreading the lie that Southerners were traitors may be comforting to you, but it's still a lie. Ironically, that's an attempt to dehumanize Southerners rather than face the truth that Southerners were never traitors nor were they wrong to secede.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 17:02:33 GMT
These tortured apologetics for slave owners and their racist allies is a doomed project. Give it up.
This is coming from someone who has read these arguments and found them half-way convincing in their youthful ignorance. But the more you study you will see these narratives collapse when confronted with indisputable historical facts.
The confederacy fought, first and foremost, to preserve their slave system.
And the "state's rights" meme is a joke. The slave states were pissed that some free states wouldn't enforce the fugitive slave act. So much for the right of the states to set their own course. The southern states didn't give two shits about federalism or decentralized political power. They wanted a powerful federal state that forced the free states to support slavery - a moral sin.
Its all a cover for racism and hatred. Don't get it twisted.
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 19, 2020 17:04:42 GMT
You have your arms wrapped around numbers like 6%, 4%, 1%. These small figures give you comfort. You can't even bring yourself to say "3.9 million people were held in bondage". You just can't say it. Because if you DID say it, it would bring home the extent of wrong the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Good riddance to the traitors i say. Greg No, what gives me comfort is seeing the whole picture, all of the truth. based on that standard, you must be very uncomfortable. I've never shied away from the 4 million total for slaves in 1860. Spreading the lie that Southerners were traitors may be comforting to you, but it's still a lie. Ironically, that's an attempt to dehumanize Southerners rather than face the truth that Southerners were never traitors nor were they wrong to secede.
That's right, nearly 4 million slaves in 1860. In today's terms, THAT is equivalent to the population of the State of Oklahoma. THINK of every man, woman and child in the State of Oklahoma in chains. Every one. Sold on the block. Whipped, lashed, raped, murdered. Every one of them. THAT is what the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Greg |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Jun 19, 2020 17:16:42 GMT
No, what gives me comfort is seeing the whole picture, all of the truth. based on that standard, you must be very uncomfortable. I've never shied away from the 4 million total for slaves in 1860. Spreading the lie that Southerners were traitors may be comforting to you, but it's still a lie. Ironically, that's an attempt to dehumanize Southerners rather than face the truth that Southerners were never traitors nor were they wrong to secede.
That's right, nearly 4 million slaves in 1860. In today's terms, THAT is equivalent to the population of the State of Oklahoma. THINK of every man, woman and child in the State of Oklahoma in chains. Every one. Sold on the block. Whipped, lashed, raped, murdered. Every one of them. THAT is what the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Greg Actually, it's worse than that, because in 1860, the US had roughly 10% of the population it has today. So extrapolating 160 years forward, and using the same percentages, the current slave population would be roughly 40 million people in chains and bondage, which is roughly the population of California. That's staggering. Plus, nobody should make their argument contingent on defending the people of Oklahoma. They call themselves Sooners, for crissake. And they choose to live in, of all places, Oklahoma. That's the place where we sent native Americans (who weren't even fit to be slaves) to die. Even some Progressives shouldn't mind owning an Oklahoman or two, if the price was right. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 19, 2020 19:31:34 GMT
These tortured apologetics for slave owners and their racist allies is a doomed project. Give it up. This is coming from someone who has read these arguments and found them half-way convincing in their youthful ignorance. But the more you study you will see these narratives collapse when confronted with indisputable historical facts. The confederacy fought, first and foremost, to preserve their slave system. And the "state's rights" meme is a joke. The slave states were pissed that some free states wouldn't enforce the fugitive slave act. So much for the right of the states to set their own course. The southern states didn't give two shits about federalism or decentralized political power. They wanted a powerful federal state that forced the free states to support slavery - a moral sin. Its all a cover for racism and hatred. Don't get it twisted. Of course the Civil War wasn't fought over the issue of human rights.
It was fought over the issue of property rights.
Because, you know, slaves were not human. They were property.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 12:59:38 GMT
These tortured apologetics for slave owners and their racist allies is a doomed project. Give it up. This is coming from someone who has read these arguments and found them half-way convincing in their youthful ignorance. But the more you study you will see these narratives collapse when confronted with indisputable historical facts. The confederacy fought, first and foremost, to preserve their slave system. And the "state's rights" meme is a joke. The slave states were pissed that some free states wouldn't enforce the fugitive slave act. So much for the right of the states to set their own course. The southern states didn't give two shits about federalism or decentralized political power. They wanted a powerful federal state that forced the free states to support slavery - a moral sin. Its all a cover for racism and hatred. Don't get it twisted. The historical facts actually refute the garbage that you posted above. It's not a surprise to see that you included none of the alleged "facts" that you claim settle the issue.
It is just not true that the Confederacy fought "to preserve their slave system". The fight was over secession, which occurred because of the increasingly tyrannical role of the federal government and the loss of the right of the states to exercise powers reserved to them.
The only "joke" is the desperate and laughable attempt to deny those truly indisputable facts. No one is denying that slavery was the igniter of the conflagration, but was only a symptom not the cause. In 1832 during the Nullification the symptoms was tariffs, not slavery, but the core issue was the same: federal totalitarianism vs. state control except in very limited and delegated matters.
TL, your lack of historical knowledge is showing. You should have studied harder. The South was adhering to the Constitution, not denying another state's powers, when they asked that the Fugitive Slave act be enforced:
No person held to service or labour in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labour may be due. - Article IV, Section 2, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution
Oops. Every state agreed to that provision of the Constitution prior to 1860. Every. single. state. An argument can be made that it was the North that first broke the agreement by failing to live up to what they agreed to. Like abortion today, this provision was evil, but still the agreed upon law of the land.
I always get the same lame whataboutism of "the Fugitive Slave act" as alleged proof that protecting slavery was the South's cause. And I always crush it to bits. Such drivel is never taken to its logical conclusion by the accuser: if catching fugitives was so important, didn't the act of secession end any obligation by the Northern states to return any escapee? That's clear evidence that slavery was NOT the primary cause for secession, which instantly gave the NORTH what THEY wanted, according to your story. Same thing is true about slavery's expansion into other states or territories. If slavery had been the primary reason (it wasn't), secession actually eliminated any possibility for expansion into the rest of North America. Why would the South throw away these two "rights" if slavery was their primary driver?
Sorry to crush your narrative, TL, but the truth needs to be told. Yes, slavery was a moral sin and needed to be ended PEACEFULLY as happened in every other civilized nation on earth. We are now reaping the bitter fruits not of slavery, but how its end was handled.
The true racists around today are those who support this perverted leftist purge and the race pimps who are behind it. And that's no meme.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 13:15:52 GMT
No, what gives me comfort is seeing the whole picture, all of the truth. based on that standard, you must be very uncomfortable. I've never shied away from the 4 million total for slaves in 1860. Spreading the lie that Southerners were traitors may be comforting to you, but it's still a lie. Ironically, that's an attempt to dehumanize Southerners rather than face the truth that Southerners were never traitors nor were they wrong to secede.
That's right, nearly 4 million slaves in 1860. In today's terms, THAT is equivalent to the population of the State of Oklahoma. THINK of every man, woman and child in the State of Oklahoma in chains. Every one. Sold on the block. Whipped, lashed, raped, murdered. Every one of them. THAT is what the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Greg Calling those Southerners "traitors" is still a lie and always will be. Repeating that falsehood is becoming a bit farcical. No wonder Solar invited you to stick around over there; every court needs its jester.
The Yankees that you worship actively tried to make the bondage of all four million souls permanent inside the U.S. Constitution, a feat that even Southerners hadn't managed.
Had that amendment passed and secession was stopped and/or rescinded, no war would have occurred and the entire country would have permanently maintained the bondage of those four million individuals.
In 1861, NEITHER side was fighting over slavery. For the South, it was ALL about federal overreach and the North's betrayal of the Founder's vision limited federal government. The Yankees only embraced slavery later to stave off foreign intervention and recognition...and to make excuses for their tyranny. We've never recovered from their evil usurpation of power; the country is coming apart today because of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 13:19:39 GMT
These tortured apologetics for slave owners and their racist allies is a doomed project. Give it up. This is coming from someone who has read these arguments and found them half-way convincing in their youthful ignorance. But the more you study you will see these narratives collapse when confronted with indisputable historical facts. The confederacy fought, first and foremost, to preserve their slave system. And the "state's rights" meme is a joke. The slave states were pissed that some free states wouldn't enforce the fugitive slave act. So much for the right of the states to set their own course. The southern states didn't give two shits about federalism or decentralized political power. They wanted a powerful federal state that forced the free states to support slavery - a moral sin. Its all a cover for racism and hatred. Don't get it twisted. Of course the Civil War wasn't fought over the issue of human rights.
It was fought over the issue of property rights.
Because, you know, slaves were not human. They were property.
Isn't that how you leftists think of the innocent children killed during every one of the 2000+ abortions that occur today? I guess it's OK as long as the dehumanization is approved by liberals. Southerners never came close to that kind of evil. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 13:22:59 GMT
That's right, nearly 4 million slaves in 1860. In today's terms, THAT is equivalent to the population of the State of Oklahoma. THINK of every man, woman and child in the State of Oklahoma in chains. Every one. Sold on the block. Whipped, lashed, raped, murdered. Every one of them. THAT is what the Southern traitors wanted to perpetuate. Greg Actually, it's worse than that, because in 1860, the US had roughly 10% of the population it has today. So extrapolating 160 years forward, and using the same percentages, the current slave population would be roughly 40 million people in chains and bondage, which is roughly the population of California. That's staggering. Plus, nobody should make their argument contingent on defending the people of Oklahoma. They call themselves Sooners, for crissake. And they choose to live in, of all places, Oklahoma. That's the place where we sent native Americans (who weren't even fit to be slaves) to die. Even some Progressives shouldn't mind owning an Oklahoman or two, if the price was right. That's cute. So if the standard is ownership of anyone who enables the genocide of other human beings, where do we go to buy our very own abortion supporter?
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