Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 17:43:40 GMT
Does anyone doubt that Orwell's 1984 is here. Dissension is no longer tolerated; history that is not approved must be rewritten or destroyed. No longer will opinions that the left disagrees with be protected.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 17:49:32 GMT
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 15, 2020 17:56:03 GMT
Statues aren't history, and removing them doesn't erase history either, especially since most of them weren't actually raised to provide any historical information/education.
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 15, 2020 17:59:13 GMT
You are quite welcome to erect monuments to any of history's dregs on your own property but not on public property..
Why is this so hard for the poorly bred to understand?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 19:00:13 GMT
You are quite welcome to erect monuments to any of history's dregs on your own property but not on public property.. Why is this so hard for the poorly bred to understand? My contribution to the maintenance of public property is equal to those who might be offended by a statue or monument that's been in place for a century. I'm offended by the removal of the monument, yet those who object seem to be more equal that I am. Many people are offended by that giant Chinese rendering of the dreg who laughed while a woman was being raped and stole the words from others to feed his plagiarism. Are you consistent enough to call for the removal of the MLK statue
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 15, 2020 20:41:19 GMT
My contribution to the maintenance of public property is equal to those who might be offended by a statue or monument that's been in place for a century. Yes it is.. as were those of black citizens when the monuments went up. Why were monuments put up in spite of their objections.. Many people are offended by that giant Chinese rendering of the dreg who laughed while a woman was being raped and stole the words from others to feed his plagiarism. Sure.. As a partisan hypocrite you simply must accept the FBI's unconfirmed "leaked" memos about MLK while simultaneously rejecting the FBI's finding of Russian interference for Trump's benefit .. Come up with real evidence of your claims Little Man ..
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 15, 2020 21:43:35 GMT
My contribution to the maintenance of public property is equal to those who might be offended by a statue or monument that's been in place for a century. Yes it is.. as were those of black citizens when the monuments went up. Why were monuments put up in spite of their objections.. Many people are offended by that giant Chinese rendering of the dreg who laughed while a woman was being raped and stole the words from others to feed his plagiarism. Sure.. As a partisan hypocrite you simply must accept the FBI's unconfirmed "leaked" memos about MLK while simultaneously rejecting the FBI's finding of Russian interference for Trump's benefit .. Come up with real evidence of your claims Little Man .. Paleocon picks and chooses his shibboleths according to his personal bias.
Let no man or woman disagree with His Lowness.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 21:56:53 GMT
Statues aren't history, and removing them doesn't erase history either, especially since most of them weren't actually raised to provide any historical information/education. Removing monuments, especially those that you might disagree with, stifles historical curiosity, promotes historical intolerance and ignorance. It's the tyrant's way of saying that only the approved version (or politically correct) history is allowed; all other thoughts are forbidden. It breed the kind of stupidity that resulted in the the moron protesters defacing the Boston monument to the famous 54th Massachusetts ALL BLACK Union regiment. The same lowlife snowflakes are also demanding that a statue of Abraham Lincoln with a black man kneeling in front of him must alos be removed. What are you liberals afraid of? Are you terrified that your minions might actually do a little research and find out that the BLM/Antifa narrative about the CSA is a pack of lies? That history is far more complex than they ever realized?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 22:39:40 GMT
My contribution to the maintenance of public property is equal to those who might be offended by a statue or monument that's been in place for a century. Yes it is.. as were those of black citizens when the monuments went up. Why were monuments put up in spite of their objections.. Many people are offended by that giant Chinese rendering of the dreg who laughed while a woman was being raped and stole the words from others to feed his plagiarism. Sure.. As a partisan hypocrite you simply must accept the FBI's unconfirmed "leaked" memos about MLK while simultaneously rejecting the FBI's finding of Russian interference for Trump's benefit .. Come up with real evidence of your claims Little Man .. Objecting to a harmless sculpture or casting that honors military bravery was idiotic then and it's idiotic now. These statues/monuments honoring local soldiers or leaders were typically funded privately and occupied a minuscule patch of public land; all were innocuous honors for elderly veterans and had nothing to do with the black community. And rather than a peaceful community decision to remove the statues today, these animals and race pimps are using violence, vandalism and extortion to get their way. Ironically, the totalitarian/anarchistic/savage behavior of today's protesters bolsters the case for putting up the statues long ago....honoring those who fought for independence in an effort to prevent the onerous unilateral dictates from the mindless mob that we are seeing today. The statues remind us that, in 1860-1877, the federal government was the villain, the invader, the killer and the aggressor. We lost the lesson that the Federal government must be kept in check so that they don't swallow the states whole. As far as MLK, the plagiarism is well established outside of FBI circles. The rape story was from a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and King biographer and has not been denied or refuted. The Trump Russia collusion nonsense was denied and refuted. But the larger question is the same: if some people are offended by MLK for any number of reasons, and if we are all equal, then shouldn't every offense item of both sides be removed?
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 15, 2020 22:45:53 GMT
That history is far more complex than they ever realized?
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. CSA VP Alexander Stephens on Slavery and the Confederate Constitution, 1861
YOU really need to come to grips with the fact the secession and the war WERE over slavery. Full Stop. Not State's Rights .. unless your recognize that the Right they are talking about was the Right to own slaves.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 16, 2020 0:45:13 GMT
Statues aren't history, and removing them doesn't erase history either, especially since most of them weren't actually raised to provide any historical information/education. Removing monuments, especially those that you might disagree with, stifles historical curiosity, promotes historical intolerance and ignorance. It's the tyrant's way of saying that only the approved version (or politically correct) history is allowed; all other thoughts are forbidden. It breed the kind of stupidity that resulted in the the moron protesters defacing the Boston monument to the famous 54th Massachusetts ALL BLACK Union regiment. The same lowlife snowflakes are also demanding that a statue of Abraham Lincoln with a black man kneeling in front of him must alos be removed. What are you liberals afraid of? Are you terrified that your minions might actually do a little research and find out that the BLM/Antifa narrative about the CSA is a pack of lies? That history is far more complex than they ever realized? Monuments to proven traitors to the United States of America are highly inappropriate.
Would you support a monument in honor of Benedict Arnold?
How about one to Judas?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 1:01:11 GMT
How perfect for this thread. I came across the following quote on facebook. A friend shared it. And I have spent the past 5 minutes staring at the quote and chewing my lips and trying to restrain myself from starting a bunch of shit in public. Because it's such an obvious thing. And there's no real easy way to point out the obvious without making people feel dumb.
A meme of Golda Meir saying "One cannot and *must not* try to *erase the past* merely because it does *not fit the present.*"
In the end, what kept me from responding is the fact that I am 100% certain the person sharing the post has no idea who Golda Meir was. So I'm coming here where at least half of you will.
Think about Golda's quote. And explain to me why Golda Meir didn't raise multiple statues of Adolf Hitler in parks all over Israel.
Queshank
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 16, 2020 1:08:16 GMT
That history is far more complex than they ever realized?
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. CSA VP Alexander Stephens on Slavery and the Confederate Constitution, 1861
YOU really need to come to grips with the fact the secession and the war WERE over slavery. Full Stop. Not State's Rights .. unless your recognize that the Right they are talking about was the Right to own slaves.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 5:01:41 GMT
That history is far more complex than they ever realized?
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. CSA VP Alexander Stephens on Slavery and the Confederate Constitution, 1861
YOU really need to come to grips with the fact the secession and the war WERE over slavery. Full Stop. Not State's Rights .. unless your recognize that the Right they are talking about was the Right to own slaves.
It just doesn't get more intellectually lazy than liberals quoting Stephens' Cornerstone speech. I'll see your Stephens and raise you a Lincoln quote: “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
What's that you say? "Thank you, sir, may I have another?" Why, of course you can! More Lincoln (to black leaders at the WH in 1862)
“See our present condition—the country engaged in war! Our White men cutting one another’s throats! And then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or another." ourfoundingtruth.blogspot.com/2009/02/abraham-lincoln-racist.html
And no, it was NOT about slavery; the Corwin Amendment settled that. So did the fact that secession made infinitely worse the issues that you leftists claim were major Southern concerns: Fugitive slaves fleeing North and the expansion of slavery into the Territories. Once seceded (perfectly legal), any slave crossing into the North could no longer be pursued. And once separated from the Union, slave transport to the territories became impossible. I can lead you to knowledge, but I can't make you think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 5:06:13 GMT
Removing monuments, especially those that you might disagree with, stifles historical curiosity, promotes historical intolerance and ignorance. It's the tyrant's way of saying that only the approved version (or politically correct) history is allowed; all other thoughts are forbidden. It breed the kind of stupidity that resulted in the the moron protesters defacing the Boston monument to the famous 54th Massachusetts ALL BLACK Union regiment. The same lowlife snowflakes are also demanding that a statue of Abraham Lincoln with a black man kneeling in front of him must alos be removed. What are you liberals afraid of? Are you terrified that your minions might actually do a little research and find out that the BLM/Antifa narrative about the CSA is a pack of lies? That history is far more complex than they ever realized? Monuments to proven traitors to the United States of America are highly inappropriate.
Would you support a monument in honor of Benedict Arnold?
How about one to Judas?
And the legally seceded Southern states were never traitors to the United States; they were no longer part of the United States, negating any accusation of betrayal. Got it? Which means that the CSA monuments are highly appropriate and their removal is not. The only thing "proven" is your lack of historical and Constitutional knowledge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 5:34:20 GMT
How perfect for this thread. I came across the following quote on facebook. A friend shared it. And I have spent the past 5 minutes staring at the quote and chewing my lips and trying to restrain myself from starting a bunch of shit in public. Because it's such an obvious thing. And there's no real easy way to point out the obvious without making people feel dumb. A meme of Golda Meir saying "One cannot and *must not* try to *erase the past* merely because it does *not fit the present.*" In the end, what kept me from responding is the fact that I am 100% certain the person sharing the post has no idea who Golda Meir was. So I'm coming here where at least half of you will. Think about Golda's quote. And explain to me why Golda Meir didn't raise multiple statues of Adolf Hitler in parks all over Israel. Queshank So, for the Nazi analogy to fit, the Confederates must have overrun the North militarily for the purpose of taking over the federal government, putting everyone they didn't like in concentration camps, killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and then moved to conquer the rest of the world by force, right? Reductio ad Hitlerum. Or were the 1861 Southerners far more analogous to the Poles in 1939, minding their own sovereign business, wanting to be left alone despite being surrounded by a powerful and covetous enemy. Like the CSA, the Poles were falsely blamed for starting the war by the tyrant that wanted to invade, then attacked by that tyrannical neighbor who was bent on subjugation and terror. The Poles lost that fight but I'll bet that they remembered their heroes when they were free to do so. Sound familiar? Golda Meir was right and her words really are very applicable today in opposition to the moronic ignorance represented by the defacing and removal of those monuments. Thanks for adding that quote to this thread, thus bolstering my point.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 16, 2020 7:11:27 GMT
Monuments to proven traitors to the United States of America are highly inappropriate.
Would you support a monument in honor of Benedict Arnold?
How about one to Judas?
And the legally seceded Southern states were never traitors to the United States; they were no longer part of the United States, negating any accusation of betrayal. Got it? Which means that the CSA monuments are highly appropriate and their removal is not. The only thing "proven" is your lack of historical and Constitutional knowledge. Oh, yes they were traitors to the USA. Your defense of their treason is the ultimate in sophistry. It's in a league with, "I'm not a bigamist because I no longer live with my first wife". The only thing you have proved is your inability to grasp logical argument. Sad.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 16, 2020 7:14:14 GMT
Monuments to proven traitors to the United States of America are highly inappropriate.
Would you support a monument in honor of Benedict Arnold?
How about one to Judas?
And the legally seceded Southern states were never traitors to the United States; they were no longer part of the United States, negating any accusation of betrayal. Got it? Which means that the CSA monuments are highly appropriate and their removal is not. The only thing "proven" is your lack of historical and Constitutional knowledge. Did Lincoln secede from the Union?
Nope.
Secession was NOT legal, it was NOT constitutional. There was NO provision in the US Constitution whereby one or more states could unilaterally decide they no longer wanted to play by the rules. Sorry, but your argument is consigned to the dustbin of history, like so many other examples of illogic.
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 16, 2020 10:31:03 GMT
Confederates were traitors to the United States. They fought for the right to retain forced labor camps. Good they lost. It is not a way of life to be celebrated.
Greg
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 16, 2020 13:39:15 GMT
Removing monuments, especially those that you might disagree with, stifles historical curiosity, promotes historical intolerance and ignorance. Stifles historical curiosity? Really? How so? Maybe if the monuments included some historical information it would promote historical curiosity. But they don't. For example, there are two Confederate monuments on the Texas Capitol grounds. I do not favor removing them; however, I would support putting up some plaques/signage with information about Texas' secession and about the Civil. War. Maybe we could quote from Texas' secession ordinance about its reasons.
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