Fiddler
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Wasted again ..
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Post by Fiddler on Apr 7, 2022 19:35:43 GMT
This is a thread about "free speech" or more accurately.. can or when does free speech go too far. Here we can, at any time in his rise, pull the trigger and a time traveling bullet drops Hitler like RWB dropping an unread science primer.. (Hint: they're all unread.)
Some might say.. kill him in his crib.. or kill his mother. Obviously wrong. He hasn't "Hitler'ed" yet .. Once he begins to "Hitler" is he fair game?
Or .. for you namby pambies... if you prefer, rather than a time traveling bullet killing Hitler .. a temporally agile Mark Zuckerburg bans him from ze ZZocial media of that time ..
The point is for all those who like to say "Under complete freedom of speech, more persuasive ideas are able to gain more votes and thus more power and control of armies and police than less persuasive ideas." .. how should we or in fact should we stop persuasive ideas that are clearly psychopathic.?
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rmwa
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Post by rmwa on Apr 7, 2022 19:39:12 GMT
This is a thread about "free speech" or more accurately.. can or when does free speech go too far. Here we can, at any time in his rise, pull the trigger and a time traveling bullet drops Hitler like RWB dropping an unread science primer.. (Hint: they're all unread.)
Some might say.. kill him in his crib.. or kill his mother. Obviously wrong. He hasn't "Hitler'ed" yet .. Once he begins to "Hitler" is he fair game?
Or .. for you namby pambies... if you prefer, rather than a time traveling bullet killing Hitler .. a temporally agile Mark Zuckerburg bans him from ze ZZocial media of that time ..
The point is for all those who like to say "Under complete freedom of speech, more persuasive ideas are able to gain more votes and thus more power and control of armies and police than less persuasive ideas." .. how should we or in fact should we stop persuasive ideas that are clearly psychopathic.?
If idea x is so clearly psychopathic, then how is it more persuasive than your counter-ideas? I think that's a paradox of censorship: the more obvious it is that an idea is wrong and needs to be censored, the less it needs to be censored, because it is so obviously wrong that it cannot gain adherents. But if it's not so obviously wrong that it cannot gain adherents, then how can it be so obviously wrong that it needs to be censored? |
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demos
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Post by demos on Apr 7, 2022 19:40:31 GMT
Maybe you'd need to kill Richard Wagner instead. Or some of the other influences on Hitler. He wasn't spawned in a vacuum.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Apr 7, 2022 19:48:11 GMT
Maybe you'd need to kill Richard Wagner instead. Or some of the other influences on Hitler. He wasn't spawned in a vacuum. Are ideas the problem, or implementers.
Clearly Hitler had ideas that came from others, as did those who voted, and followed him.
But he was willing to implement those ideas, and that changes his nature completely.
I can dream of eradicating all the stupid people from the country, with the idea that in doing so, we'd be left with a saner society, but if put in power, would I try to actually implement it? That's where crazy comes in.
Freon
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demos
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Post by demos on Apr 7, 2022 19:55:16 GMT
Are ideas the problem, or implementers.
Clearly Hitler had ideas that came from others, as did those who voted, and followed him.
But he was willing to implement those ideas, and that changes his nature completely.
I can dream of eradicating all the stupid people from the country, with the idea that in doing so, we'd be left with a saner society, but if put in power, would I try to actually implement it? That's where crazy comes in.
Freon The OP posits the ideas are the problem, hence my response. |
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Apr 7, 2022 20:00:30 GMT
Are ideas the problem, or implementers.
Clearly Hitler had ideas that came from others, as did those who voted, and followed him.
But he was willing to implement those ideas, and that changes his nature completely.
I can dream of eradicating all the stupid people from the country, with the idea that in doing so, we'd be left with a saner society, but if put in power, would I try to actually implement it? That's where crazy comes in.
Freon The OP posits the ideas are the problem, hence my response. I don't agree that is the thesis.
It's more an open question of what IS the problem.
It's not at what point do we shut down Hitler's speech, but Hitler himself.
Freon
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demos
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Post by demos on Apr 7, 2022 20:02:14 GMT
I don't agree that is the thesis.
It's more an open question of what IS the problem.
It's not at what point do we shut down Hitler's speech, but Hitler himself.
Freon
The OP seems to be quite clear that it's about shutting down Hitler's speech, otherwise the reference to Zuckerburg doesn't make much sense. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 7, 2022 20:03:22 GMT
Time Travel is impossible.
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Fiddler
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Wasted again ..
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Post by Fiddler on Apr 7, 2022 20:12:22 GMT
Time Travel is impossible.
Bold statement there Bud .. but not the topic ..
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petep
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Post by petep on Apr 7, 2022 20:13:01 GMT
On the surface it seems like a "fun" question, that would be tough to answer...
But I think you hit on something fids, which is at what point do you stop the man who is pursuing such a brutal agenda....do you keep hoping he will become nice? Or take action?
With hitler, I'd say the moment he started taking territories/countries...and I mean the second he stepped one foot in, on the basis these were actual german owned territories....
We know, for example, the forces / people who advocated for appeasement, when hitler and his army could have been easily crushed....one could make a good argument that those people, and that thinking led to the deaths of 50 million people in wwii....of course hitler was the bad guy, but the person who allows the child predator to babysit the kids is culpable for the consequences. I do think as a society we do not do a good job learning from history - but then again the present day conventional wisdom seems to trump history lessons...
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Apr 7, 2022 20:13:36 GMT
I don't agree that is the thesis.
It's more an open question of what IS the problem.
It's not at what point do we shut down Hitler's speech, but Hitler himself.
Freon
The OP seems to be quite clear that it's about shutting down Hitler's speech, otherwise the reference to Zuckerburg doesn't make much sense. And yet the title is about Hitler, the individual.
Metaphor? Which one?
Freon
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Fiddler
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Post by Fiddler on Apr 7, 2022 20:20:30 GMT
I don't agree that is the thesis.
It's more an open question of what IS the problem.
It's not at what point do we shut down Hitler's speech, but Hitler himself.
Freon
The OP seems to be quite clear that it's about shutting down Hitler's speech, otherwise the reference to Zuckerburg doesn't make much sense.
Of course this is hyperbole.. still is there a point when speech becomes so dangerous that men of good conscience are compelled to act ?
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demos
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Post by demos on Apr 7, 2022 20:21:40 GMT
We know, for example, the forces / people who advocated for appeasement, when hitler and his army could have been easily crushed....one could make a good argument that those people, and that thinking led to the deaths of 50 million people in wwii....of course hitler was the bad guy, but the person who allows the child predator to babysit the kids is culpable for the consequences. I do think as a society we do not do a good job learning from history - but then again the present day conventional wisdom seems to trump history lessons... Given the lack of military spending by Britain, France, etc. during the interwar years and the need to rearm, the idea that Germany would've been easily crushed is probably not an accurate assessment. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Apr 7, 2022 20:25:20 GMT
Of course this is hyperbole.. still is there a point when speech becomes so dangerous that men of good conscience are compelled to act ? Maybe when they attempt to act on that or others do (can probably make a compelling conspiracy argument)? Germany had an opportunity to deal with Hitler during and after the failed putsch, instead he was given a minimum sentence by a sympathetic court. |
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Post by archie on Apr 7, 2022 20:27:12 GMT
Maybe you'd need to kill Richard Wagner instead. Or some of the other influences on Hitler. He wasn't spawned in a vacuum. Are ideas the problem, or implementers.
Clearly Hitler had ideas that came from others, as did those who voted, and followed him.
But he was willing to implement those ideas, and that changes his nature completely.
I can dream of eradicating all the stupid people from the country, with the idea that in doing so, we'd be left with a saner society, but if put in power, would I try to actually implement it? That's where crazy comes in.
Freon
OK. Instead of killing Biden and company, how about their followers wake up and just vote them out of power and get our country back to top dog. And the (D) cult better do it real soon or they will be working for China and Biden family. |
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freonbale
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Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,406
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Post by freonbale on Apr 7, 2022 20:29:29 GMT
Are ideas the problem, or implementers.
Clearly Hitler had ideas that came from others, as did those who voted, and followed him.
But he was willing to implement those ideas, and that changes his nature completely.
I can dream of eradicating all the stupid people from the country, with the idea that in doing so, we'd be left with a saner society, but if put in power, would I try to actually implement it? That's where crazy comes in.
Freon
OK. Instead of killing Biden and company, how about their followers wake up and just vote them out of power and get our country back to top dog. And the (D) cult better do it real soon or they will be working for China and Biden family. lol.
Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Apr 7, 2022 20:32:24 GMT
As I recall, nobody had to kill Hitler. He committed suicide.
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Post by atreyu on Apr 7, 2022 21:01:00 GMT
Time Travel is impossible. False
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Post by jasmine on Apr 7, 2022 21:19:48 GMT
The point is for all those who like to say "Under complete freedom of speech, more persuasive ideas are able to gain more votes and thus more power and control of armies and police than less persuasive ideas." .. how should we or in fact should we stop persuasive ideas that are clearly psychopathic.? Interesting topic. The problem is, “persuasive ideas that are clearly psychopathic” these days are largely defined by people with political agendas. It comes down to people simply unable to handle ideas or opinions that go against their beliefs. Hence, we have cancel culture, and it’s weakening us as a country. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 22:00:21 GMT
The problem is that we don't have any means of knowing who's gonna be a successful Hitler and who's gonna fail completely and end up a relatively harmless loon in someone's basement. For one of the first category there are thousands, nay millions of the second.
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