Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 18:48:13 GMT
Yeah. Probly not.
And in the face of the West's escalations, recalcitrance and refusal to negotiate on Putin's concerns, and with China's support, once Putin crushes Ukrainian resistance he just might start to threaten the neighboring countries pinning down NATO troops as China moves on Taiwan.
China is not going to give Russia a dime to fight its wars. China considers Taiwan as a part of China and leaves it the fuck alone.
Lol. Which one of these sentences is funnier. I can't decide.
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 3, 2022 18:49:21 GMT
China is not going to give Russia a dime to fight its wars. China considers Taiwan as a part of China and leaves it the fuck alone.
I think China would absolutely love to have Russia in debt to them. It is what they do.
Exactly. They will take from Russia and not give them a dime to fight Putin's stupid invasion. War is costly. Putin is losing his resources and citizen support. He did not learn from the USSR's attempt to control Afghanistan. |
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 3, 2022 18:51:03 GMT
I think China would absolutely love to have Russia in debt to them. It is what they do.
Exactly. They will take from Russia and not give them a dime to fight Putin's stupid invasion. War is costly. Putin is losing his resources and citizen support. He did not learn from the USSR's attempt to control Afghanistan.
You say "exactly", while also saying they won't give Putin a dime. Are we on the same page about how debt works?
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 3, 2022 18:52:53 GMT
I'm just seeing that something good might have come out of the negotiations. Is this accurate that Russia has agreed to allow safe passage for escape and for aid?
Russia doesn't just do things to be nice. So this seems like angling for a deal.
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 3, 2022 18:56:58 GMT
China is not going to give Russia a dime to fight its wars. China considers Taiwan as a part of China and leaves it the fuck alone.
Lol. Which one of these sentences is funnier. I can't decide.
Tell me why it is so funny |
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 3, 2022 18:59:14 GMT
Exactly. They will take from Russia and not give them a dime to fight Putin's stupid invasion. War is costly. Putin is losing his resources and citizen support. He did not learn from the USSR's attempt to control Afghanistan.
You say "exactly", while also saying they won't give Putin a dime. Are we on the same page about how debt works?
I said China won't give them a dime to fight their stupid war. If you did not take my statement out of context, then you would not have responded in such a stupid manner. |
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 3, 2022 19:00:52 GMT
You say "exactly", while also saying they won't give Putin a dime. Are we on the same page about how debt works?
I said China won't give them a dime to fight their stupid war. If you did not take my statement out of context, then you would not have responded in such a stupid manner.
So you are saying that China will give Russia money, but not money for the war? Money is fungible once Russia gets it. So if they give them money (ie, issue debt to Russia, thus making Russia "in debt" to them), the money will help fight the war.
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 3, 2022 19:06:17 GMT
I said China won't give them a dime to fight their stupid war. If you did not take my statement out of context, then you would not have responded in such a stupid manner.
So you are saying that China will give Russia money, but not money for the war? Money is fungible once Russia gets it. So if they give them money (ie, issue debt to Russia, thus making Russia "in debt" to them), the money will help fight the war.
What I am saying is that China will do with Russia what it is doing on the African continent. China is patient and will wait until Russia falls apart financially before it makes its move. That is my prediction. |
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Post by Fiddler on Mar 3, 2022 20:17:07 GMT
My concern is still ... what happens to the idea of democracy as the Western world watches Ukraine choked and dying "for democracy" while Western governments stand by and simply place bets in their stock markets. The idea that average citizens will understand this complex issue can be easily dispelled by simply reading these boards or twitter or I assume facebook. Or any news articles written by biased and self interested partisans masquerading as journalists. We're watching a snuff film. And these people think we're watching part 1 of some heroic epic. Negotiations may be the only real hope,
I'm just seeing that something good might have come out of the negotiations. . What do you imagine would bring Putin to the negotiation table? |
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 3, 2022 20:51:39 GMT
Negotiations may be the only real hope,
I'm just seeing that something good might have come out of the negotiations. . What do you imagine would bring Putin to the negotiation table? He (not literally, but his people) is already at the negotiating table.
They have already agreed, while negotiations are ongoing, to allow the aid and escape passage I described in the text you left out of your quote.
What is bringing him to the table is the desire to not be at war, losing money, equipment, lives, etc.; turning the world against Russia; offers of peace in exchange for retreat to Crimea, Donbas, removal of fear of NATO, etc.
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petep
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Post by petep on Mar 3, 2022 21:27:25 GMT
Must be neat to be a modern “libertarian” where the liberty you value is your own.
Must be like being a Nazi citizen and being glad ur not a Jew and encourage the Jews just to accept imprisonment to avoid death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 21:32:11 GMT
Must be neat to be a modern “libertarian” where the liberty you value is your own. Must be like being a Nazi citizen and being glad ur not a Jew and encourage the Jews just to accept imprisonment to avoid death.
Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Somebody broke petep.
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 3, 2022 21:36:35 GMT
Must be neat to be a modern “libertarian” where the liberty you value is your own. Must be like being a Nazi citizen and being glad ur not a Jew and encourage the Jews just to accept imprisonment to avoid death.
LOL, what?
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petep
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Post by petep on Mar 3, 2022 21:37:54 GMT
Must be neat to be a modern “libertarian” where the liberty you value is your own. Must be like being a Nazi citizen and being glad ur not a Jew and encourage the Jews just to accept imprisonment to avoid death.
Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Somebody broke petep.
Both the left and right and moderates on this board have been quite clear about what they would do, and they have been remarkably consistent and correct in predicting what Russia would do. Perhaps not too hard considering Putin has been saying what he wants. Oh, and you can watch what he is actually doing. But the self proclaimed libertarians seem to be posting from the kremlin. I’ve yet to see a tangible strategy beyond give Russia what they want to avoid war. I’m guessing none of you has turned on a tv for the last week. |
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Post by MojoJojo on Mar 3, 2022 21:39:19 GMT
Zelenskyy needs to state that Ukraine will not join NATO, which gives Putin an out.
If he keeps up the seige tactics we can dismiss that as a reason for invasion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 21:44:51 GMT
Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Somebody broke petep.
Both the left and right and moderates on this board have been quite clear about what they would do, and they have been remarkably consistent and correct in predicting what Russia would do. Perhaps not too hard considering Putin has been saying what he wants. Oh, and you can watch what he is actually doing. But the self proclaimed libertarians seem to be posting from the kremlin. I’ve yet to see a tangible strategy beyond give Russia what they want to avoid war. I’m guessing none of you has turned on a tv for the last week. What are you talking about? Who has predicted anything Russia would do that has come true yet? Did I blink and Putin now controls the whole Russian Empire and East Berlin? Is that what you're seeing on your tv?
Name one prediction "the left and right and moderates" predicted that has come to fruition? Was there some faction on the boards arguing Putin *wouldn't* invade?
I've shared documents from 1997 predicting everything that has happened in the past 30 years with uncanny accuracy because of the West's aggressive expansion of NATO. Demos shared videos of analysts from 7 years ago predicting this would happen because of the West's aggressive expansion of NATO.
But the pro war "left and right and moderates" have said things that tickle your piggly wiggly their predictions that haven't come true yet are already facts?
What the fuck are you talking about?
And why do you keep calling me a libertarian? Because I don't want Ukraine to be a sheet of glass that makes me a libertarian? Your mind works in truly bizarre ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 21:48:12 GMT
Both the left and right and moderates on this board have been quite clear about what they would do, and they have been remarkably consistent and correct in predicting what Russia would do. Perhaps not too hard considering Putin has been saying what he wants. Oh, and you can watch what he is actually doing. But the self proclaimed libertarians seem to be posting from the kremlin. I’ve yet to see a tangible strategy beyond give Russia what they want to avoid war. I’m guessing none of you has turned on a tv for the last week. Your mind works in truly bizarre ways. Easily programmed ways. |
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 3, 2022 21:53:02 GMT
Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Somebody broke petep.
Both the left and right and moderates on this board have been quite clear about what they would do, and they have been remarkably consistent and correct in predicting what Russia would do. Perhaps not too hard considering Putin has been saying what he wants. Oh, and you can watch what he is actually doing. But the self proclaimed libertarians seem to be posting from the kremlin. I’ve yet to see a tangible strategy beyond give Russia what they want to avoid war. I’m guessing none of you has turned on a tv for the last week.
It isn't the "libertarians" fault that Ukraine is in a poor position with few real options. That is the fault of the big government stooge invading their borders.
The libertarians, among others, are simply proposing a way to get out of this situation which A) still leaves Ukraine in existence and B) doesn't lead to US and other world power involvement and the potential follow-on effects of that.
Unfortunately we live in a world where big government exists. Just like you regularly give up some of your money for the government to do things, whether you like it or not. And just like you followed the pandemic mandates when unavoidable, whether you like it or not.
We don't live in a utopia where we can just say, "NO!!! Russia can't just get away with this! Something must be done!" and leave it at that as though just saying that - along with little analogies about how you would be standing up to the guy beating a defenseless woman - is doing something. Because aside from sanctions that have only been followed by accelerating of the Putin military action, you have proposed nothing.
You know how Russia gets what they want? By sticking to the current plan of sanctions and grandstanding about how much we hate Putin and the things he does. Because they just ignore it and continue their march through Ukraine, eventually taking the whole country. UN vote? Ignored. Statements from world leaders? Ignored. US troops to NATO nations? Ignored. Sanctions? Haven't heard a peep.
So even if you think Russia is getting everything they want by making a deal, they will also get everything they want if we continue status quo, except there will be no Ukraine left, and a lot more people will die - not even mentioning the economic value lost in war.
Except a deal might not leave Russia with everything they want. A deal might leave Russia with some of what they want (eg, Crimea), and leave Ukraine with their continued existence and not being bombarded by bombs, etc.
No deal almost guarantees Russia gets what they want AND a high likelihood Ukraine loses everything.
Let's hear your plan that doesn't lead to the complete destruction of Ukraine and Russia getting everything, while not putting US/UN/EU lives at risk by entering a war with Russa. Outside of the slim chance that Ukraine wins the war...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 23:16:30 GMT
Both the left and right and moderates on this board have been quite clear about what they would do, and they have been remarkably consistent and correct in predicting what Russia would do. Perhaps not too hard considering Putin has been saying what he wants. Oh, and you can watch what he is actually doing. But the self proclaimed libertarians seem to be posting from the kremlin. I’ve yet to see a tangible strategy beyond give Russia what they want to avoid war. I’m guessing none of you has turned on a tv for the last week. You know how Russia gets what they want? By sticking to the current plan of sanctions and grandstanding about how much we hate Putin and the things he does. Because they just ignore it and continue their march through Ukraine, eventually taking the whole country. UN vote? Ignored. Statements from world leaders? Ignored. US troops to NATO nations? Ignored. Sanctions? Haven't heard a peep. And as rhetoric and punishing actions heat up the rationalization for continuing down the line of countries heats up. "If we're severed from West altogether anyway, let the dice fly high glory be to Russia!"
These are called self fulfilling prophecies.
I wonder how wet Liz Cheney's panties are right now.
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thor
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Post by thor on Mar 3, 2022 23:49:19 GMT
You know how Russia gets what they want? By sticking to the current plan of sanctions and grandstanding about how much we hate Putin and the things he does. Because they just ignore it and continue their march through Ukraine, eventually taking the whole country. UN vote? Ignored. Statements from world leaders? Ignored. US troops to NATO nations? Ignored. Sanctions? Haven't heard a peep. And as rhetoric and punishing actions heat up the rationalization for continuing down the line of countries heats up. "If we're severed from West altogether anyway, let the dice fly high glory be to Russia!"
These are called self fulfilling prophecies.
I wonder how wet Liz Cheney's panties are right now.
Said no one, ever. Before now. |
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