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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 3:08:24 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 6, 2020 4:40:39 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
I'm obviously not a Trumper, but one would hope that at least some of them would wake up to how divisive, destructive, and delinquent Mr. Trump is for our nation.
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Post by Lomelis on Aug 6, 2020 6:39:30 GMT
As a non-Trumper it actually makes me wonder if Biden supportors are concerned or not that wealthy establishment Republicans might be backing Biden.
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Post by MojoJojo on Aug 6, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
As a non-Trumper it actually makes me wonder if Biden supportors are concerned or not that wealthy establishment Republicans might be backing Biden. I doubt they'd be supporting Bernie Sanders. Biden's the safe pick for the establishment, Bernie and Trump were threats. Trump defeated the GOP where Bernie failed with the Dems. :/ |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 12:14:45 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
Many are the same Never Trumpers that acted so stupidly in 2016. Traitors? No. Short sighted elitists and moronic neo-cons? Far more likely. These are uni-party hacks pining for the good old days when their jingoistic, socially liberal agenda wasn't reviled.
Not a good measure of Trump's chances.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 13:20:10 GMT
I'm not a Republican and never have been. I strongly opposed the Iraq War before it began and thereafter, just like I strongly oppose BLM now. What category does that put me in? The Republicans ran John McCain in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012 and lost both times. Those two have also been some of the staunchest Republicans against Trump. They are the status quo of the Republican Party. The Democratic Party has its own status quo, which isn't that different from the Republican status quo on several important issues, war and trade/immigration/cheap labor/profits being two. I see the two parties as the left and right hand of the same entity. It's an entity I oppose, and so I oppose both parties. When Trump first announced his run in 2015, much of the Republican establishment opposed him. John McCain was one of the first to come out against him. This was the guy the Republicans had chosen to run for president in 2008. He was a leader of the party. And maybe I remember incorrectly, but I think Fox News also opposed him in the very beginning, before it became an obvious possibility that he could win the nomination. If Trump had not run, early polling showed that Jeb Bush would have been the nominee. That's the Republican Party that doesn't like Trump. So in asking why there are Republicans who oppose Trump, I think the reasons have to do with war and trade. I think that's the real reason the Democrat establishment opposes him too. The establishment behind both parties is the same entity with the same interests. All the differences in social issues are just bait which fools the public into thinking they have a choice. But behind the bait is the hook, and it's just one hook. This I think is the real reason for the extreme animosity against Trump. The establishment hook has put out various propaganda to get the public to hate Trump for reasons that are persuasive to the public, but they are not the real reasons. The public would not be persuaded by the real reasons and would in fact reject them. This is why the bait reasons have to cover up the hook reasons. And I think Trump continues to be the most anti-establishment option we are allowed to have. And I don't really mean "allowed." In the case of Trump, the establishment lost control. They did not allow him to win the nomination in 2016. It happened against their will. We were not supposed to be allowed to vote for him. The fact that Trump was able to slip past the establishment sentries is another reason I still support him. I keep hearing this idea, from Trump supporters, that stirring up chaos in 'the establishment' is a way of making positive change, and yet I cannot think of any other situation, let alone an entire nation's government, where creating chaos has a positive outcome. When one 'stirs up a hornet's nest,' the expectation is massive angry chaos, so I am curious what makes Trumpers believe that a different result will occur by putting an arguably unqualified person in charge of government.
I would expect chaos, which is exactly what we have seen. I would expect a lack of cooperation on all sides and I would expect an inability to deal with crisis. All of this is happening right now.
Trump is chaos, but that chaos is not changing anything permanently, so besides this temporary illusion of results, what have you actually gained?
Freon
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 6, 2020 15:49:48 GMT
Aw Geez.
People have been railing against "The Establishment" for as long as I can remember. In the 60's and 70's it made some sense, for the entrenched powers in this nation were supporting a senseless war in Vietnam and elsewhere, and suppressing free speech of those who opposed it.
What people today don't seem to understand is that "The Establishment" wasn't just elected officials and government bureaucrats. It was to a large extent funded and controlled by the 1%, the very wealthy who pulled the puppet strings to serve their own interests. That same 1% today decided that Mr. Chaos was the perfect foil to preserve and expand their grip on both political and financial supremacy. Today it makes little rational sense, since the lower rungs of white society are supporting a con man who is serving the very forces that keep peasants like themselves knuckled down permanently. They've been duped into believing that these forces have their best interest at heart. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
The hope now is that indeed this is no longer a red vs. blue thing, not a Republican vs. Democrat thing, not even a liberal vs. conservative thing. It is more a battle for the soul of the nation, to reclaim it from those who have bought it for a song and are bleeding it dry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 15:51:35 GMT
I don't understand the question.
What do you mean "right now?"
This has been going on for nearly 5 years. Did you really just notice?
Queshank
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 6, 2020 16:29:00 GMT
I don't understand the question. What do you mean "right now?" This has been going on for nearly 5 years. Did you really just notice? Queshank
You were clearly asked what you have gained from all this chaos.
You chose to change the subject instead.
WTF difference does five yeas vs. "right now" make? If it's been going on for five years, as you say, then it continues and is also going on right now.
Do try to focus better.
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demos
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Post by demos on Aug 6, 2020 16:32:10 GMT
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump. If you look at the people involved, they do have one policy area largely in common with Biden: foreign policy. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 16:37:02 GMT
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump. If you look at the people involved, they do have one policy area largely in common with Biden: foreign policy. But would that explain the mutiny entirely?
I personally doubt it.
Freon
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 6, 2020 16:38:09 GMT
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump. If you look at the people involved, they do have one policy area largely in common with Biden: foreign policy. I don't think the upcoming election will be about foreign policy as much as it is about domestic policy, other than that a President Biden will garner far more honest respect from foreign nations than the current fool in the Oval Office.
America cannot maintain a high standing in the world while it is tearing itself apart domestically.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 16:49:36 GMT
If you look at the people involved, they do have one policy area largely in common with Biden: foreign policy. I don't think the upcoming election will be about foreign policy as much as it is about domestic policy, other than that a President Biden will garner far more honest respect from foreign nations than the current fool in the Oval Office.
America cannot maintain a high standing in the world while it is tearing itself apart domestically.
I honestly do not believe any of those topics matter.
What I am hearing from both sides (that are anti-Trump), is that the person who sits in the oval office should reflect the best of us, the values we cherish; dignity, honor, integrity, honesty, courage, love and compassion.
Trump only shows strength, which by all indications from the response he's getting from both sides, is the weakest value we have.
Freon
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demos
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Post by demos on Aug 6, 2020 16:52:04 GMT
But would that explain the mutiny entirely?
I personally doubt it.
Freon
Entirely? No. It's part of it though. Especially if you look at what they're saying (as well as the Lincoln Project ads). |
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Post by stugatze on Aug 6, 2020 17:27:28 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate. It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected. How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election. Thanks,
Freon
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Dear low on Freon,  The ONLY thing that really sounds ''BIZARRE''.... is your bullshit!  -- you gotta stop believing your corrupt liberal socialist network news media, Geeze, they LIE like gangbusters, .. and people like YOU eat it up as gospel, NOT realizing they serve the demoncrap liberal socialist party, .. and you dare to call yourself intelligent and then you presume to try to measure other people's intelligence. -- You big dope, .. wise up!   |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 17:37:12 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate. It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected. How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election. Thanks,
Freon
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Dear low on Freon, The ONLY thing that really sounds ''BIZARRE''.... is your bullshit! -- you gotta stop believing your corrupt liberal socialist network news media, Geeze, they LIE like gangbusters, .. and people like YOU eat it up as gospel, NOT realizing they serve the demoncrap liberal socialist party, .. and you dare to call yourself intelligent and then you presume to try to measure other people's intelligence. -- You big dope, .. wise up! Stu, I get my news predominately from YOUR side. I don't listen to a single popular outlet of left leaning news, with the exception of NPR while I'm driving, which because of COVID, I'm doing very little of.
So your initial assumption is just wrong.
I look at what you are being fed, then I challenge it by researching what actually happened.
Do you? I think even you would be shocked if you did.
Freon
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thor
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Post by thor on Aug 6, 2020 17:53:27 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
Nice attempt, but most of these folks traded their country for a stupid slogan and a red hat. To 'own the libs'. The smarter among them are trying to claim they knew who and what Trump is all along, but like Germans fleeing Berlin in 1945, they will only stop long enough to burn their uniforms (in their case, MAGA hats). And like many in the German officer corps did with Adolf Hitler, will then spend their time writing copious tomes absolving themselves of responsibility. The truth is Trump is the result of GOP politics/policy going back to Goldwater. They built it. They own it.  |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 21:47:27 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
Nice attempt, but most of these folks traded their country for a stupid slogan and a red hat. To 'own the libs'. The smarter among them are trying to claim they knew who and what Trump is all along, but like Germans fleeing Berlin in 1945, they will only stop long enough to burn their uniforms (in their case, MAGA hats). And like many in the German officer corps did with Adolf Hitler, will then spend their time writing copious tomes absolving themselves of responsibility. The truth is Trump is the result of GOP politics/policy going back to Goldwater. They built it. They own it. Ok, I hear you, but what gain do we have by shaming them. They're not leaving. They will always be with us. And they vote.
While I don't feel sorry for them, because what is about to happen, they 100% brought on themselves, I still believe we need to find a way to coexist with them. They are racist bigots, but they are OUR racist bigots. Abandoning them is no different that denying reparations to slaves.
Freon
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petep
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Post by petep on Aug 6, 2020 23:26:32 GMT
Trump was nominated and elected in large part by republicans sick of swamp republicans and democrats.
The swamp on both sides want him gone.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 6, 2020 23:39:06 GMT
Trump was nominated and elected in large part by republicans sick of swamp republicans and democrats. The swamp on both sides want him gone. If what we had before Trump was swamp, then we are describing a functional government as swamp.
I want the swamp back.
Freon
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-- you gotta stop believing your corrupt liberal socialist network news media, Geeze, they LIE like gangbusters, .. and people like YOU eat it up as gospel, NOT realizing they serve the demoncrap liberal socialist party, .. and you dare to call yourself intelligent and then you presume to try to measure other people's intelligence. -- You big dope, .. wise up! 
