Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 7, 2020 0:06:40 GMT
Trump was nominated and elected in large part by republicans sick of swamp republicans and democrats. The swamp on both sides want him gone.
I don't think it was an improvement when Trump replaced the swamp with a cesspool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 0:07:52 GMT
Trump was nominated and elected in large part by republicans sick of swamp republicans and democrats. The swamp on both sides want him gone.
I don't think it was an improvement when Trump replaced the swamp with a cesspool.
All I heard was pool. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 7, 2020 0:22:29 GMT
I don't think it was an improvement when Trump replaced the swamp with a cesspool.
All I heard was pool.
Who knew you could be that stupid?
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Post by Lomelis on Aug 7, 2020 7:47:12 GMT
As a non-Trumper it actually makes me wonder if Biden supportors are concerned or not that wealthy establishment Republicans might be backing Biden. I doubt they'd be supporting Bernie Sanders. Biden's the safe pick for the establishment, Bernie and Trump were threats. Trump defeated the GOP where Bernie failed with the Dems. :/ True enough. He's the establishment pick. I think there is still an underestimation of the ill will towards the establishment among both parties. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 7, 2020 13:18:14 GMT
I doubt they'd be supporting Bernie Sanders. Biden's the safe pick for the establishment, Bernie and Trump were threats. Trump defeated the GOP where Bernie failed with the Dems. :/ True enough. He's the establishment pick. I think there is still an underestimation of the ill will towards the establishment among both parties. What I don't understand is this whole 'establishment' thing. If you want to change Washington, vote in new senators and congressman. A crazy president will have zero permanent affect, as we have seen.
Freon
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,211
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Post by demos on Aug 7, 2020 14:32:58 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate. Going back to this; the Dixiecrats would be an example, though they were advocating for their own candidate against the Democrat incumbent. In 1952, there were Democrats - particularly in Texas and Louisiana - advocating for Eisenhower over Stevenson (Ike won TX). Probably some similar examples, but these are some I can think of off the top of my head. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 7, 2020 14:49:31 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate. Going back to this; the Dixiecrats would be an example, though they were advocating for their own candidate against the Democrat incumbent. In 1952, there were Democrats - particularly in Texas and Louisiana - advocating for Eisenhower over Stevenson (Ike won TX). Probably some similar examples, but these are some I can think of off the top of my head. Then I stand corrected, and I appreciate your calling me on it, though I did put 'large groups' in my statement, which I think still makes what I said accurate.
I just read up on the Dixiecrats, and I think today's Trumpers would have bonded with them seemlessly.
Freon
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Post by crepe05 on Aug 7, 2020 15:27:54 GMT
I'm not a Republican and never have been. I strongly opposed the Iraq War before it began and thereafter, just like I strongly oppose BLM now. What category does that put me in? The Republicans ran John McCain in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012 and lost both times. Those two have also been some of the staunchest Republicans against Trump. They are the status quo of the Republican Party. The Democratic Party has its own status quo, which isn't that different from the Republican status quo on several important issues, war and trade/immigration/cheap labor/profits being two. I see the two parties as the left and right hand of the same entity. It's an entity I oppose, and so I oppose both parties. When Trump first announced his run in 2015, much of the Republican establishment opposed him. John McCain was one of the first to come out against him. This was the guy the Republicans had chosen to run for president in 2008. He was a leader of the party. And maybe I remember incorrectly, but I think Fox News also opposed him in the very beginning, before it became an obvious possibility that he could win the nomination. If Trump had not run, early polling showed that Jeb Bush would have been the nominee. That's the Republican Party that doesn't like Trump. So in asking why there are Republicans who oppose Trump, I think the reasons have to do with war and trade. I think that's the real reason the Democrat establishment opposes him too. The establishment behind both parties is the same entity with the same interests. All the differences in social issues are just bait which fools the public into thinking they have a choice. But behind the bait is the hook, and it's just one hook. This I think is the real reason for the extreme animosity against Trump. The establishment hook has put out various propaganda to get the public to hate Trump for reasons that are persuasive to the public, but they are not the real reasons. The public would not be persuaded by the real reasons and would in fact reject them. This is why the bait reasons have to cover up the hook reasons. And I think Trump continues to be the most anti-establishment option we are allowed to have. And I don't really mean "allowed." In the case of Trump, the establishment lost control. They did not allow him to win the nomination in 2016. It happened against their will. We were not supposed to be allowed to vote for him. The fact that Trump was able to slip past the establishment sentries is another reason I still support him. I keep hearing this idea, from Trump supporters, that stirring up chaos in 'the establishment' is a way of making positive change, and yet I cannot think of any other situation, let alone an entire nation's government, where creating chaos has a positive outcome. When one 'stirs up a hornet's nest,' the expectation is massive angry chaos, so I am curious what makes Trumpers believe that a different result will occur by putting an arguably unqualified person in charge of government.
I would expect chaos, which is exactly what we have seen. I would expect a lack of cooperation on all sides and I would expect an inability to deal with crisis. All of this is happening right now.
Trump is chaos, but that chaos is not changing anything permanently, so besides this temporary illusion of results, what have you actually gained?
Freon
You wrote a lot, and throughout your writing there is one word that caught my attention. That one word is "chaos". If I am reading your posts correctly, you blame President Trump for the "chaos". I blame the anti-Trumpers, and they belong to both of our political parties. Whi9ch party will win the election, no one knows. However, we do know that people on the left are the ones who are creating the riots along with the destruction and the burning of public, private and govt properties which are creating a major portion of "chaos" in our nation. |
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Post by MojoJojo on Aug 7, 2020 15:28:38 GMT
Going back to this; the Dixiecrats would be an example, though they were advocating for their own candidate against the Democrat incumbent. In 1952, there were Democrats - particularly in Texas and Louisiana - advocating for Eisenhower over Stevenson (Ike won TX). Probably some similar examples, but these are some I can think of off the top of my head. Then I stand corrected, and I appreciate your calling me on it, though I did put 'large groups' in my statement, which I think still makes what I said accurate.
I just read up on the Dixiecrats, and I think today's Trumpers would have bonded with them seemlessly.
Freon
That's been my read too. This isn't that new. The silent majority is now a very vocal minority. Same demographic but smaller in scale so louder to compensate. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 7, 2020 15:34:04 GMT
I keep hearing this idea, from Trump supporters, that stirring up chaos in 'the establishment' is a way of making positive change, and yet I cannot think of any other situation, let alone an entire nation's government, where creating chaos has a positive outcome. When one 'stirs up a hornet's nest,' the expectation is massive angry chaos, so I am curious what makes Trumpers believe that a different result will occur by putting an arguably unqualified person in charge of government.
I would expect chaos, which is exactly what we have seen. I would expect a lack of cooperation on all sides and I would expect an inability to deal with crisis. All of this is happening right now.
Trump is chaos, but that chaos is not changing anything permanently, so besides this temporary illusion of results, what have you actually gained?
Freon
You wrote a lot, and throughout your writing there is one word that caught my attention. That one word is "chaos". If I am reading your posts correctly, you blame President Trump for the "chaos". I blame the anti-Trumpers, and they belong to both of our political parties. Whi9ch party will win the election, no one knows. However, we do know that people on the left are the ones who are creating the riots along with the destruction and the burning of public, private and govt properties which are creating a major portion of "chaos" in our nation. Are you saying that right now, we are a country of riots? That what you see as chaos is happening in most major cities? That you cannot leave your house, because you fear Antifa or BLM?
I see it in Portland, a few other places I guess, but by and large, order is by far the more common state our country is in.
So where are you being told otherwise?
I do appreciate the fact that you realize that even your own side is against you. I would focus on that, because if you ignore it, you are going to be very surprised in November.
Freon
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Post by Lomelis on Aug 7, 2020 15:49:12 GMT
True enough. He's the establishment pick. I think there is still an underestimation of the ill will towards the establishment among both parties. What I don't understand is this whole 'establishment' thing. If you want to change Washington, vote in new senators and congressman. A crazy president will have zero permanent affect, as we have seen.
Freon
I believe there is an attempt to elect new legislators it just hasn't been as successful. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 16:39:41 GMT
Who knew you could be that stupid?
It was hard. I was trying to get down to your level. I don't think I've quite gotten there yet. I'm working on it. |
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,211
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Post by demos on Aug 7, 2020 16:53:30 GMT
Then I stand corrected, and I appreciate your calling me on it, though I did put 'large groups' in my statement, which I think still makes what I said accurate. Not really trying to 'call you on it' - I was just trying to think of some similar circumstances. Democratic Republican Party during the 1820s would be another I suppose, specifically Adams vs Jackson. |
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Post by archie on Aug 7, 2020 16:55:22 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
I'm obviously not a Trumper, but one would hope that at least some of them would wake up to how divisive, destructive, and delinquent Mr. Trump is for our nation.
Well why don’t you help them know how bad Trump is. List how divisive, destructive, and delinquent Mr. Trump is for our nation. Of course you will not because he is not. You are another piece of propaganda shit that is all over the place, paid for by the Marxist party, most of it. |
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Post by archie on Aug 7, 2020 17:07:30 GMT
If you look at the people involved, they do have one policy area largely in common with Biden: foreign policy. I don't think the upcoming election will be about foreign policy as much as it is about domestic policy, other than that a President Biden will garner far more honest respect from foreign nations than the current fool in the Oval Office.
America cannot maintain a high standing in the world while it is tearing itself apart domestically.
The people tearing it apart are not the Trump supporters. They are the ones that want everything for free. In other words Marxism and communism to support them. They are the ignorant losers and criminals of the country. I totally cannot understand how they’re getting away with what they are. They should have all been arrested and put in jail, and if resisted enough just shot and thrown into the garbage dump. Who is allowing all this violence to carry on? What are the names of the governors of those states that cannot control what they are supposed to? The smart people that is the republican supporters should fire those governors and replace them with real American governors. |
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Post by archie on Aug 7, 2020 17:17:34 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I believe this the first time in our history where large groups of the incumbent president's party are advocating for the opposition candidate.
It's bizarre. Democrats are being helped by big money on the republican side to get Biden elected.
How do you explain this phenomenon? Do you see them as traitors? Are they even republicans? They are not democrats, because they do not share democrat goals, at least in terms of policy. The only thing they have in common with dems is the desire to remove Trump.
Are you starting to feel cornered, or do you still retain the belief that all is well, and Trump will easily win the next election.
Thanks,
Freon
Nice attempt, but most of these folks traded their country for a stupid slogan and a red hat. To 'own the libs'. The smarter among them are trying to claim they knew who and what Trump is all along, but like Germans fleeing Berlin in 1945, they will only stop long enough to burn their uniforms (in their case, MAGA hats). And like many in the German officer corps did with Adolf Hitler, will then spend their time writing copious tomes absolving themselves of responsibility. The truth is Trump is the result of GOP politics/policy going back to Goldwater. They built it. They own it.  I know what I want to see not just for myself. I want to see everyone working, I want to see more manufacturing done here I want to see our prescription medicine made here, I want the stock market to climb, I want people to earn a good living and enjoy a good retirement. And I want the chance to live here that is legal to be able to go after the good work and live a good life. Not the lives of criminals, gangsters of all colors. Get educated get out and get a job and live the American way. And that sure as hell is not the democRAT way of life. They want you to suck up to them so you can just about get by. And that is a fact. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 7, 2020 18:33:42 GMT
I just invented a new term: Foron. A forum moron. You forons know who you are. Maybe not, since you're forons.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 7, 2020 18:37:27 GMT
I'm obviously not a Trumper, but one would hope that at least some of them would wake up to how divisive, destructive, and delinquent Mr. Trump is for our nation.
Well why don’t you help them know how bad Trump is. List how divisive, destructive, and delinquent Mr. Trump is for our nation. Of course you will not because he is not. You are another piece of propaganda shit that is all over the place, paid for by the Marxist party, most of it. Archie, you've given him an impossible task.
How do you explain the color blue to someone who is blind?
Freon
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Post by freonbale on Aug 7, 2020 18:45:12 GMT
What I don't understand is this whole 'establishment' thing. If you want to change Washington, vote in new senators and congressman. A crazy president will have zero permanent affect, as we have seen.
Freon
I believe there is an attempt to elect new legislators it just hasn't been as successful. If that is the case, then the population has chosen for the government to be how it is.
If it really bothers you that much, get into politics and try to change things.
Voting for someone like Trump is at best, a statement of your dissatisfaction. But when he's gone, who then will do your work for you? If you want change, you need to make it happen yourself. Get people elected who feel the way you do. Convince others to do the same, and you can have the utopia you seem to want.
I actually liked it the way it was. Up until the tea party and trump, politicians were civil with each other. I was so proud of us for electing a qualified black man to the presidency, and then you bigots freaked out because Obama symbolized our nation moving away from the white christian homogeneity you so crave. Kudos for getting the least educated people in our country to vote. The most greedy. The most racist. You got Trump elected.
But there are more of us than there are of you. And I think you are about to find that out.
Freon
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 7, 2020 18:46:28 GMT
Well why don’t you help them know how bad Trump is. List how divisive, destructive, and delinquent Mr. Trump is for our nation. Of course you will not because he is not. You are another piece of propaganda shit that is all over the place, paid for by the Marxist party, most of it. Archie, you've given him an impossible task.
How do you explain the color blue to someone who is blind?
Freon
One can no more do that, than explain to a foron how awful Trump is for America.
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