demos
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Post by demos on Jun 16, 2020 16:29:32 GMT
SourceWatching the announcement on CSPAN right now. This is actually some good stuff.
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 16, 2020 17:05:16 GMT
I'm somewhat mystified as to what this actually DOES.
Greg
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 16, 2020 17:30:23 GMT
As Republicans cut backflips protecting police qualified immunity ....
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 16, 2020 17:50:08 GMT
Here is the executive order: Executive Order on Safe Policing for Safe CommunitiesIndependent credentialing agencies will confirm law enforcement agencies are adhering with all applicable law and are prohibiting choke holds. There will be a federal database on excessive use of force, including whether or not an officer has resigned or retired while under investigation for excessive use of force. And training law enforcement on dealing with the mentally ill, homeless, etc. These are some good steps to take. Could've gone further imo, such as telling DOD not to transfer military equipment to police departments, but this is a start. Congress and state legislatures will hopefully go further. |
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 16, 2020 18:00:03 GMT
Here's the thing. There are STILL local police polices that do NOT prohibit the use of chokeholds and this EO does nothing to actually restrain that. In other words, it says "We'll be keeping and eye on you". Police use of chokeholds is not against the law as far as I can tell.
Yes, it's a start, but it seams more appeasement than actual action.
Greg
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 16, 2020 18:03:23 GMT
Here's the thing. There are STILL local police polices that do NOT prohibit the use of chokeholds and this EO does nothing to actually restrain that. In other words, it says "We'll be keeping and eye on you". Police use of chokeholds is not against the law as far as I can tell. Yes, it's a start, but it seams more appeasement than actual action. Greg Local governments seems to be already acting on chokeholds, etc. Some cities had already banned them. For example, this is what Austin passed last week:  |
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 16, 2020 19:34:54 GMT
Trump spoke for quite a long time on the local TV. But I didn't hear any of it, because I have this protective reflex that hits the mute button whenever his face comes on screen.
I'm hopeful but can't help being skeptical of his motive and the devil is in the details.
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 16, 2020 19:37:42 GMT
Here's the thing. There are STILL local police polices that do NOT prohibit the use of chokeholds and this EO does nothing to actually restrain that. In other words, it says "We'll be keeping and eye on you". Police use of chokeholds is not against the law as far as I can tell. Yes, it's a start, but it seams more appeasement than actual action. Greg Local governments seems to be already acting on chokeholds, etc. Some cities had already banned them. For example, this is what Austin passed last week: [image]
My town has a web site where the police may make various announcements. Last week the chief announced that the department will not longer use "neck restraint".
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Post by MojoJojo on Jun 16, 2020 22:10:18 GMT
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Post by Lomelis on Jun 16, 2020 23:41:50 GMT
These are things that need to happen but not through federal executive order.
Policing is a local matter. Local communities need to step up and reform.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 14:41:25 GMT
I'm somewhat mystified as to what this actually DOES. Greg I'm somewhat mystified as to why people think the federal government can fix the law enforcement problems of city governments with a pen.
Queshank
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 14:47:57 GMT
What else do all 3 of those countries have in common that the USA doesn't have?
Besides homogeny?
89% of the people of Germany are of white European descent.
92% of the people of Finland are of white European descent.
Nearly 90% of the people of Norway are of white European descent.
2 of the 3 countries are also overwhelmingly Lutheran with the 3rd being the literal birthplace of Lutheranism.
One of the biggest canards I think leftists have fallen for in recent years is their pointing to predominantly white, homogenized, European countries and saying "See they can do it!? We can't because of Republicans!!!" One could almost argue Germany, Finland and Norway are Republican paradises. White and religious.
A step further ... I'm always wondering why leftists are advancing such pro white people ideas.
Queshank
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 17, 2020 15:11:28 GMT
I'm somewhat mystified as to what this actually DOES. Greg I'm somewhat mystified as to why people think the federal government can fix the law enforcement problems of city governments with a pen.
Queshank
I'm a bit mystified you are so unaware of stuff like this, Trump's executive order on police from 2019:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 19:09:21 GMT
I'm somewhat mystified as to why people think the federal government can fix the law enforcement problems of city governments with a pen.
Queshank
I'm a bit mystified you are so unaware of stuff like this, Trump's executive order on police from 2019:
I'm mystified as to why people think the federal government can fix the law enforcement problems of city governments with a pen. Queshank |
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Post by Admin on Jun 17, 2020 20:09:14 GMT
What else do all 3 of those countries have in common that the USA doesn't have?
Besides homogeny?
89% of the people of Germany are of white European descent.
92% of the people of Finland are of white European descent. Nearly 90% of the people of Norway are of white European descent.
2 of the 3 countries are also overwhelmingly Lutheran with the 3rd being the literal birthplace of Lutheranism.
One of the biggest canards I think leftists have fallen for in recent years is their pointing to predominantly white, homogenized, European countries and saying "See they can do it!? We can't because of Republicans!!!" One could almost argue Germany, Finland and Norway are Republican paradises. White and religious. A step further ... I'm always wondering why leftists are advancing such pro white people ideas.
Queshank
What does being White have to do with the amount of training police receive .. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 17, 2020 21:23:05 GMT
I'm a bit mystified you are so unaware of stuff like this, Trump's executive order on police from 2019:
I'm mystified as to why people think the federal government can fix the law enforcement problems of city governments with a pen. Queshank Well, from now on, your willful ignorance will not mystify me. Thanks for that.
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Post by MojoJojo on Jun 17, 2020 22:15:17 GMT
Besides homogeny? 89% of the people of Germany are of white European descent. 92% of the people of Finland are of white European descent. Nearly 90% of the people of Norway are of white European descent.
2 of the 3 countries are also overwhelmingly Lutheran with the 3rd being the literal birthplace of Lutheranism.
One of the biggest canards I think leftists have fallen for in recent years is their pointing to predominantly white, homogenized, European countries and saying "See they can do it!? We can't because of Republicans!!!" One could almost argue Germany, Finland and Norway are Republican paradises. White and religious.
A step further ... I'm always wondering why leftists are advancing such pro white people ideas.
Queshank
Sure, each country's demographics are not a reflection of our own, a valid criticism, but the meme post's point was emphasizing the amount of education/training the police forces receive. I won't dismiss that out-of-hand due to our differences in culture, ethnicity or race. Maybe education/training is a universal?
If we're reliant on nations that mirror us demographically, we've no reason to look at what others are doing differently.
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 17, 2020 22:25:19 GMT
Besides homogeny? 89% of the people of Germany are of white European descent. 92% of the people of Finland are of white European descent. Nearly 90% of the people of Norway are of white European descent.
2 of the 3 countries are also overwhelmingly Lutheran with the 3rd being the literal birthplace of Lutheranism.
One of the biggest canards I think leftists have fallen for in recent years is their pointing to predominantly white, homogenized, European countries and saying "See they can do it!? We can't because of Republicans!!!" One could almost argue Germany, Finland and Norway are Republican paradises. White and religious.
A step further ... I'm always wondering why leftists are advancing such pro white people ideas.
Queshank
Sure, each country's demographics are not a reflection of our own, a valid criticism, but the meme post's point was emphasizing the amount of education/training the police forces receive. I won't dismiss that out-of-hand due to our differences in culture, ethnicity or race. Maybe education/training is a universal?
If we're reliant on nations that mirror us demographically, we've no reason to look at what others are doing differently.
The lesson here may be that European nations, by and large, had their fill of police states after WWII, and after the Cold War ended.
Business interests are most in favor of a subservient under-educated police force that unquestioningly does their bidding.
Business interests have undue influence upon American politics and government office holders.
It's time for the PEOPLE to take back our state and local governments and rein in our over-militarized police forces.
Unless of course we want more police brutality/murder and subsequent massive social unrest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 22:27:49 GMT
Besides homogeny? 89% of the people of Germany are of white European descent. 92% of the people of Finland are of white European descent. Nearly 90% of the people of Norway are of white European descent.
2 of the 3 countries are also overwhelmingly Lutheran with the 3rd being the literal birthplace of Lutheranism.
One of the biggest canards I think leftists have fallen for in recent years is their pointing to predominantly white, homogenized, European countries and saying "See they can do it!? We can't because of Republicans!!!" One could almost argue Germany, Finland and Norway are Republican paradises. White and religious.
A step further ... I'm always wondering why leftists are advancing such pro white people ideas.
Queshank
Sure, each country's demographics are not a reflection of our own, a valid criticism, but the meme post's point was emphasizing the amount of education/training the police forces receive. I won't dismiss that out-of-hand due to our differences in culture, ethnicity or race. Maybe education/training is a universal?
If we're reliant on nations that mirror us demographically, we've no reason to look at what others are doing differently.
Or it's completely irrelevant because the problem is crime and not policing? Maybe the universal in all 3 of those countries is a homogenized population that cares more about each other because they look more like each other. It's not like that's far fetched. It's only basic biology and evolution. Queshank |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 22:30:44 GMT
And yes I'm suggesting the difference might have less to do with "3 years of training" to become a police officer, and more what *should be* the natural human instinct to just offer a drunk person a ride home instead of hassling them, arresting them and inevitably shooting them when they wonder (legitimately) what the fuck they're being hassled about and protest.
Queshank
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