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Post by Monster Man on Apr 6, 2024 3:16:15 GMT
What's unfortunate is that you bought an erroneous narrative about prayer. Then you bought an erroneous narrative about the church and its role in history. Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen Bigots gotta bigot.
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 6, 2024 3:29:02 GMT
Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen Bigots gotta bigot. You're the expert, have all the information, and they still kicked your ass out of the Corps. Not long ago I saw that old Gomer Pyle USMC show, one of the early ones when he first enlisted. Anyway, he fucked up something or other and Sgt Carter had Gomer sing the Marine Corps hymn while wearing a bucket on his head. The whole thing reminded me of you.
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 6, 2024 3:48:56 GMT
Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen Bigots gotta bigot. Absolutely goddamn right. I can see you're in terrible angst. I understand; after all, lately you've not had much of anything to whine about being a victim of. When I first got here you had been and were still a victim of critical race theory. Then after you got your victim card filled on that, you were a victim of drag shows and got your card checked off there. Now you're searching for something else to be a victim of. Hang in there. Something will come along soon that will slake your insatiable appetite for victimization. Victims gotta be victimized. Perpetual victims gotta be victimized in perpetuity.
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 6, 2024 4:14:23 GMT
Absolutely goddamn right. I can see you're in terrible angst. I understand; after all, lately you've not had much of anything to whine about being a victim of. When I first got here you had been and were still a victim of critical race theory. Then after you got your victim card filled on that, you were a victim of drag shows and got your card checked off there. Now you're searching for something else to be a victim of. Hang in there. Something will come along soon that will slake your insatiable appetite for victimization. Victims gotta be victimized. Perpetual victims gotta be victimized in perpetuity. Sounds like I am victimizing you plenty. LOL
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Post by oldtrapper on Apr 6, 2024 4:32:55 GMT
Absolutely goddamn right. I can see you're in terrible angst. I understand; after all, lately you've not had much of anything to whine about being a victim of. When I first got here you had been and were still a victim of critical race theory. Then after you got your victim card filled on that, you were a victim of drag shows and got your card checked off there. Now you're searching for something else to be a victim of. Hang in there. Something will come along soon that will slake your insatiable appetite for victimization. Victims gotta be victimized. Perpetual victims gotta be victimized in perpetuity. Sounds like I am victimizing you plenty. LOL Naw. You are just lying as you need to do along with your gawd.
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 6, 2024 5:15:12 GMT
Sounds like I am victimizing you plenty. LOL Naw. You are just lying as you need to do along with your gawd. What is the lie? Now run along like you usually do coward.
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 6, 2024 7:03:30 GMT
Naw. You are just lying as you need to do along with your gawd. What is the lie? Now run along like you usually do coward. You're such an insufferable prick; it's appalling. You realize that all your conversations end up the same way, asshole? With you calling the other person coward regardless of how badly they've just kicked your ass. You are like the black knight in "holy grail", moron.
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thor
Legend
Posts: 17,608
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Post by thor on Apr 6, 2024 12:05:24 GMT
What is the lie? Now run along like you usually do coward. You're such an insufferable prick; it's appalling. You realize that all your conversations end up the same way, asshole? With you calling the other person coward regardless of how badly they've just kicked your ass. You are like the black knight in "holy grail", moron.
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Hospital
Apr 6, 2024 13:14:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Monster Man on Apr 6, 2024 13:14:36 GMT
What is the lie? Now run along like you usually do coward. You're such an insufferable prick; it's appalling. You realize that all your conversations end up the same way, asshole? With you calling the other person coward regardless of how badly they've just kicked your ass. You are like the black knight in "holy grail", moron. Oh, had enough, have you?!
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Hospital
Apr 6, 2024 13:27:47 GMT
via mobile
thor likes this
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 6, 2024 13:27:47 GMT
You're such an insufferable prick; it's appalling. You realize that all your conversations end up the same way, asshole? With you calling the other person coward regardless of how badly they've just kicked your ass. You are like the black knight in "holy grail", moron. Given his reaction monster fuck never saw that movie. It makes you wonder what planet this imbecile is from, doesn't it?
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 16:42:39 GMT
Do you think faith is an absolute, like "unique"? I honestly don't know what you're talking about, nor why you put unique between quotes. Not that your statement would be clearer without those quotes, just less bizarre. Unique is an absolute. There is no "more unique" or "less unique." I don't think "acting on faith" is an absolute like that.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 16:43:54 GMT
That is the very definition of faith. You know what happens to words that means too many things? They end up meaning nothing. Not sure that faith "means many things." The problem here is the conflation of "faith" to mean "religious faith."
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 16:47:06 GMT
What's unfortunate is that you bought an erroneous narrative about prayer. Then you bought an erroneous narrative about the church and its role in history. Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen Your perspective is so obviously prejudiced that it's probably impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you about this. Maybe I'll try this...can you name, say, 50 charitable organizations that were not motivated in some way by what you would call religious belief? In response, I'll list 500 that that were initiated based on specifically Christian motivation. Then tell me that religion only serves as a crutch, excuse for prejudice, etc. You also recognize that it was Christians (explicitly motivated by their Christianity) that worked to end slavery in the west, an institution that was almost universal historically? I would also recommend you look at historian Tom Holland's incentive for recently identifying as "Christian." Based on his study of history. As a historian.
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,419
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Post by petep on Apr 6, 2024 16:50:11 GMT
Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen Your perspective is so obviously prejudiced that it's probably impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you about this. Maybe I'll try this...can you name, say, 50 charitable organizations that were not motivated in some way by what you would call religious belief? In response, I'll list 500 that that were initiated based on specifically Christian motivation. Then tell me that religion only serves as a crutch, excuse for prejudice, etc. You also recognize that it was Christians (explicitly motivated by their Christianity) that worked to end slavery in the west, an institution that was almost universal historically? I would also recommend you look at historian Tom Holland's incentive for recently identifying as "Christian." Based on his study of history. As a historian. We could always look to the former ussr which had state sponsored atheism. How’d that work out for their people.
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 6, 2024 22:10:14 GMT
Absolutely goddamn right. I can see you're in terrible angst. I understand; after all, lately you've not had much of anything to whine about being a victim of. When I first got here you had been and were still a victim of critical race theory. Then after you got your victim card filled on that, you were a victim of drag shows and got your card checked off there. Now you're searching for something else to be a victim of. Hang in there. Something will come along soon that will slake your insatiable appetite for victimization. Victims gotta be victimized. Perpetual victims gotta be victimized in perpetuity. Sounds like I am victimizing you plenty. LOL As usual, you've got the bucket on your head....not getting all the information. If you whined about transgender awareness day falling on Easter this year (it's been a thing since 2009) and that Biden somehow had something to do with it must have missed it. But I suspect you whined about it somewhere. How about the Easter egg roll annual event at the White House for kids? Did you wihne about the prohibition of religious symbols on the eggs (a standing policy for nearly fifty years)? It was a big whine on Faux News just like the transgender thing was. I can't believe you missed out on a chance to whine. I don't really think you did. I just didn't be unlucky enough to see it. Put your bucket back on your head so you'll make sure to not get all the information.
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 6, 2024 22:19:41 GMT
Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen Your perspective is so obviously prejudiced that it's probably impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you about this. Maybe I'll try this...can you name, say, 50 charitable organizations that were not motivated in some way by what you would call religious belief? In response, I'll list 500 that that were initiated based on specifically Christian motivation. Then tell me that religion only serves as a crutch, excuse for prejudice, etc. You also recognize that it was Christians (explicitly motivated by their Christianity) that worked to end slavery in the west, an institution that was almost universal historically? I would also recommend you look at historian Tom Holland's incentive for recently identifying as "Christian." Based on his study of history. As a historian. I never said religion has had NO positive results. Some believers asctually adhere to their convictions. I consider the Shriner's Hospital for Children as well as the one Danny Thomas started to be motivated by Christian ideals. All I'm saying is that religion, overall, has been the cause of more death and misery than anything else in history. Hell, It's happening now, and has been, in the Middle East as I write. Do you deny that either side in the Hamas/Israel issue is motivated by religion? I have no problem with religion if it serves to advance the common good. When it acts in the opposite way, I criticize it. Hell, I blame it. It's too easy to be a crutch, as I said before, for the justification of any goddamn issue no matter how ridiculous.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 22:28:14 GMT
Your perspective is so obviously prejudiced that it's probably impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you about this. Maybe I'll try this...can you name, say, 50 charitable organizations that were not motivated in some way by what you would call religious belief? In response, I'll list 500 that that were initiated based on specifically Christian motivation. Then tell me that religion only serves as a crutch, excuse for prejudice, etc. You also recognize that it was Christians (explicitly motivated by their Christianity) that worked to end slavery in the west, an institution that was almost universal historically? I would also recommend you look at historian Tom Holland's incentive for recently identifying as "Christian." Based on his study of history. As a historian. I never said religion has had NO positive results. Some believers asctually adhere to their convictions. I consider the Shriner's Hospital for Children as well as the one Danny Thomas started to be motivated by Christian ideals. All I'm saying is that religion, overall, has been the cause of more death and misery than anything else in history. Hell, It's happening now, and has been, in the Middle East as I write. Do you deny that either side in the Hamas/Israel issue is motivated by religion? I have no problem with religion if it serves to advance the common good. When it acts in the opposite way, I criticize it. Hell, I blame it. It's too easy to be a crutch, as I said before, for the justification of any goddamn issue no matter how ridiculous. Okay, then you need to show how "religion leveraged for political and violent aims" is somehow worse than "political and violent aims not motivated by religion." I think you'll find that difficult. Critiquing when it's done wrong? Absolutely. Bring it on. "More harm than good" compared to alternatives? Demonstrably not true. Consider that Genghis Khan murdered something like 10% of the world's population of his time, and although he claimed "divine sanction," the way he treated religion reveals that he was not motivated by it. And...explicitly atheist states have murdered far more (on purpose or by accident) in the 20 th century alone than all "religious wars" combined.
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 6, 2024 23:22:13 GMT
I never said religion has had NO positive results. Some believers asctually adhere to their convictions. I consider the Shriner's Hospital for Children as well as the one Danny Thomas started to be motivated by Christian ideals. All I'm saying is that religion, overall, has been the cause of more death and misery than anything else in history. Hell, It's happening now, and has been, in the Middle East as I write. Do you deny that either side in the Hamas/Israel issue is motivated by religion? I have no problem with religion if it serves to advance the common good. When it acts in the opposite way, I criticize it. Hell, I blame it. It's too easy to be a crutch, as I said before, for the justification of any goddamn issue no matter how ridiculous. Okay, then you need to show how "religion leveraged for political and violent aims" is somehow worse than "political and violent aims not motivated by religion." I think you'll find that difficult. Critiquing when it's done wrong? Absolutely. Bring it on. "More harm than good" compared to alternatives? Demonstrably not true. Consider that Genghis Khan murdered something like 10% of the world's population of his time, and although he claimed "divine sanction," the way he treated religion reveals that he was not motivated by it. And...explicitly atheist states have murdered far more (on purpose or by accident) in the 20 th century alone than all "religious wars" combined. No, I don't need to show anything. Religion used as justification to harm others is just fucking wrong. I don't need to show how it's wrong. Or maybe I should say my "religion" tells me it's wrong. That's not the case, because I don't need or want any religion to justify any action I take on my own. I disagree. Are you insinuating Genghis Khan had no religion? Or that nobody worshipped him? Or that he thought of himself as divine? It makes no difference to me....an atheist killing innocents is no less guilty than a Christian Crusader killing innocent Muslims or a Zionist radical sect killing Muslim kids or a radical Muslim sect killing innocent Israelis. Or an Irish Catholic killing a schoolroom of Protestant kids. What is the common denominator in all of those things? It's not atheism. It's religion. I'm not saying it's all bad; just if you invoke it, live by its tenets. If you do that, you're in a minority because most of your fellow travelers don't do it.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 23:41:47 GMT
Okay, then you need to show how "religion leveraged for political and violent aims" is somehow worse than "political and violent aims not motivated by religion." I think you'll find that difficult. Critiquing when it's done wrong? Absolutely. Bring it on. "More harm than good" compared to alternatives? Demonstrably not true. Consider that Genghis Khan murdered something like 10% of the world's population of his time, and although he claimed "divine sanction," the way he treated religion reveals that he was not motivated by it. And...explicitly atheist states have murdered far more (on purpose or by accident) in the 20 th century alone than all "religious wars" combined. No, I don't need to show anything. Religion used as justification to harm others is just fucking wrong. I don't need to show how it's wrong. Or maybe I should say my "religion" tells me it's wrong. That's not the case, because I don't need or want any religion to justify any action I take on my own. I disagree. Are you insinuating Genghis Khan had no religion? Or that nobody worshipped him? Or that he thought of himself as divine? It makes no difference to me....an atheist killing innocents is no less guilty than a Christian Crusader killing innocent Muslims or a Zionist radical sect killing Muslim kids or a radical Muslim sect killing innocent Israelis. Or an Irish Catholic killing a schoolroom of Protestant kids. What is the common denominator in all of those things? It's not atheism. It's religion. I'm not saying it's all bad; just if you invoke it, live by its tenets. If you do that, you're in a minority because most of your fellow travelers don't do it. I didn't say "it's not wrong." I said you need to show that it's worse than violence inflicted "not because of religion." My point about Genghis Khan was that he was not religiously motivated. And he didn't rally his armies with religion. That people who claim religion do bad things does not make it "the common denominator" any more than breathing oxygen is a "common denominator." The issue is whether their religious belief motivated them to do those things. If an Irish Catholic killed a room full of Protestant kids, were they motivated by their religious belief? Or were they motivated by the desire for retribution based on prior and present injustice? There's no question that people are divided by religious belief. That doesn't guarantee that what they do is based on their religious belief. Especially when these kinds of actions are also perpetrated by those without religious belief. The only thing you can legitimately make a claim about is when people claim that their actions are motivated by religious beliefs (e.g., the Crusades).
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 7, 2024 3:27:24 GMT
No, I don't need to show anything. Religion used as justification to harm others is just fucking wrong. I don't need to show how it's wrong. Or maybe I should say my "religion" tells me it's wrong. That's not the case, because I don't need or want any religion to justify any action I take on my own. I disagree. Are you insinuating Genghis Khan had no religion? Or that nobody worshipped him? Or that he thought of himself as divine? It makes no difference to me....an atheist killing innocents is no less guilty than a Christian Crusader killing innocent Muslims or a Zionist radical sect killing Muslim kids or a radical Muslim sect killing innocent Israelis. Or an Irish Catholic killing a schoolroom of Protestant kids. What is the common denominator in all of those things? It's not atheism. It's religion. I'm not saying it's all bad; just if you invoke it, live by its tenets. If you do that, you're in a minority because most of your fellow travelers don't do it. I didn't say "it's not wrong." I said you need to show that it's worse than violence inflicted "not because of religion." My point about Genghis Khan was that he was not religiously motivated. And he didn't rally his armies with religion. That people who claim religion do bad things does not make it "the common denominator" any more than breathing oxygen is a "common denominator." The issue is whether their religious belief motivated them to do those things. If an Irish Catholic killed a room full of Protestant kids, were they motivated by their religious belief? Or were they motivated by the desire for retribution based on prior and present injustice? There's no question that people are divided by religious belief. That doesn't guarantee that what they do is based on their religious belief. Especially when these kinds of actions are also perpetrated by those without religious belief. The only thing you can legitimately make a claim about is when people claim that their actions are motivated by religious beliefs (e.g., the Crusades). We seen to be misunderstanding each other. Let me say this: if your religion, whatever it is, gives you comfort, purpose, inspiration, and optimism about yourself, I think that's great. I'm just telling you that religion has been an excuse for untold horrendous activity for centuries. I'm not discounting the fact that human greed and lust for power. ala Genghis Khan, don't come into play in any of this, just that more often than not religion is used to justify whatever the goal of the manipulator is. I hope you've not bought a trump bible, but I'd like your take on his bible promotion.
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