|
Post by Mercy for All on Apr 5, 2024 21:14:27 GMT
I don't know but the point is that they can act without "faith", whatever you want it to mean, so why couldn't we? You seem to be arguing that we are more limited than animals much lower on the food-chain. We could, if we were automatons without free will, driven by thoughtless instinct.
|
|
thor
Legend
Posts: 17,608
|
Post by thor on Apr 5, 2024 21:16:14 GMT
What if I were coming by boat? I mined the sea lanes. How? She's out of service!!!111:
|
|
|
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 5, 2024 21:22:00 GMT
I hear they only found terra firma after one year of floating around. What did they feed the tigers? Carrots? There are a number of practical considerations that make Noah's Ark look like a leg pull, though an entertaining one. How did the old guy make sure that the two ants didn't leave the ark before he "weighed anchor." Whatever. Fire ants can cross rivers on rafts made of bodies of self-sacrificing fire ants (that link their limbs together before they die), but I doubt it would work on the ocean.
|
|
|
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 5, 2024 21:30:11 GMT
I don't know but the point is that they can act without "faith", whatever you want it to mean, so why couldn't we? You seem to be arguing that we are more limited than animals much lower on the food-chain. We could, if we were automatons without free will, driven by thoughtless instinct. I think you have an obsolete view of the animal kingdom, animals learn from past mistakes, even flies do, as has been demonstrated by scientists. They act according to the data they have just like we do.
I don't do things on "faith", I choose the course of action the most likely to succeed (according to what information I have) and I know that sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, because of past experiences. I am sorry but I don't see how you can call that faith. The difference between
a human being and an animal is not as clear cut as you seem to believe and it has nothing to do with faith but more with the amount of information that a human being is capable of processing versus an animal.
You seem so intent on pushing that "faith" thing of yours that you will say anything no matter how far fetched to promote it.
|
|
|
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 5, 2024 21:32:48 GMT
What if I were coming by boat? I mined the sea lanes. IOW, you mined your own business...
|
|
|
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 5, 2024 21:42:48 GMT
I don't know but the point is that they can act without "faith", whatever you want it to mean, so why couldn't we? You seem to be arguing that we are more limited than animals much lower on the food-chain. We could, if we were automatons without free will, driven by thoughtless instinct. Btw, you know that we evolved from those thoughtless instinct driven automatons, don't you? How did the transition go from one to the other? In a day? In one generation? In a thousand? Is it one or the other, or are there creatures that are a mix of will and thoughtless instinct? In that case do they have half-faith? A quarter-faith?
|
|
|
Post by HolyMoly on Apr 5, 2024 21:52:16 GMT
I always figured that as a general rule the earlier parts of the Bible are less accurate than the later parts. "more inaccurate" is more like it. That would work too.
|
|
|
Post by Monster Man on Apr 5, 2024 22:11:27 GMT
We could, if we were automatons without free will, driven by thoughtless instinct. I think you have an obsolete view of the animal kingdom, animals learn from past mistakes, even flies do, as has been demonstrated by scientists. They act according to the data they have just like we do.
I don't do things on "faith", I choose the course of action the most likely to succeed (according to what information I have) and I know that sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, because of past experiences. I am sorry but I don't see how you can call that faith. The difference between
a human being and an animal is not as clear cut as you seem to believe and it has nothing to do with faith but more with the amount of information that a human being is capable of processing versus an animal.
You seem so intent on pushing that "faith" thing of yours that you will say anything no matter how far fetched to promote it.
No, not just like we do. You can show a fly how to do Calculus... the fly isn't going to start doing Calculus. And no matter how many times you tell the fly to leave your food alone... he doesn't listen. Oddly enough... they never figured out the fly traps in Iraq either. You would think with all the data they were given, you know, all their dead fly buddies inside, they would avoid it.
|
|
|
Post by HolyMoly on Apr 5, 2024 22:25:13 GMT
There are a number of practical considerations that make Noah's Ark look like a leg pull, though an entertaining one. How did the old guy make sure that the two ants didn't leave the ark before he "weighed anchor." Whatever. Fire ants can cross rivers on rafts made of bodies of self-sacrificing fire ants (that link their limbs together before they die), but I doubt it would work on the ocean. Interesting. I did not know that. All my experiences with fire ants have come on dry land and they have all had a degree of unpleasantness. They are persistent little buggers.
|
|
|
Post by runswithscissors on Apr 5, 2024 23:18:27 GMT
You've still not given an example of anyone praying for something they DIDN'T want. I'll wait. "Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine." Luke 22:42. If you think that prayer has never been prayed by people other Jesus, I'll let you know that you're mistaken about that. Well, looks to me like praying for a cup of suffering be taken away from ME is praying for something you WANT, not something you DON'T want. The last part of that mitigates personal desire to a minimal extent. The only times I can remember praying were exclusively for me. They generally start with "please, god, I'll never drink again." It never works. I started questioning religious doctrine as a five year old kid when I saw how different my mom acted at church compared to how she acted as I knew her. It all seemed like pretend to me. Then as I got older and read about religions, I began to realize that religion has been the biggest detriment to the advancement of man. The "church" was against science for centuries if science contradicted scripture.....hell, the church would kill you if you publicly spoke against any aspect of it. Back in the day, the only people who could read and write were priests. When that began to change after the invention of the printing press, the "church" realized their days were numbered. I think of Christianity as nothing more than death worship.....the Eastern religions make a lot more sense to me. I totally reject the concept of original sin (especially after witnessing the birth of my daughter) as well as the ideo of life after deat. Life after death is real in the sense that others live even after you're gone. Life after death only applies to the people that still live after you die. And that they will perpetuate your own delusion.
|
|
|
Hospital
Apr 5, 2024 23:32:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 5, 2024 23:32:33 GMT
I think you have an obsolete view of the animal kingdom, animals learn from past mistakes, even flies do, as has been demonstrated by scientists. They act according to the data they have just like we do.
I don't do things on "faith", I choose the course of action the most likely to succeed (according to what information I have) and I know that sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, because of past experiences. I am sorry but I don't see how you can call that faith. The difference between
a human being and an animal is not as clear cut as you seem to believe and it has nothing to do with faith but more with the amount of information that a human being is capable of processing versus an animal.
You seem so intent on pushing that "faith" thing of yours that you will say anything no matter how far fetched to promote it.
No, not just like we do. You can show a fly how to do Calculus... the fly isn't going to start doing Calculus. And no matter how many times you tell the fly to leave your food alone... he doesn't listen. Oddly enough... they never figured out the fly traps in Iraq either. You would think with all the data they were given, you know, all their dead fly buddies inside, they would avoid it. You're a moron.
|
|
|
Hospital
Apr 5, 2024 23:37:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Monster Man on Apr 5, 2024 23:37:33 GMT
No, not just like we do. You can show a fly how to do Calculus... the fly isn't going to start doing Calculus. And no matter how many times you tell the fly to leave your food alone... he doesn't listen. Oddly enough... they never figured out the fly traps in Iraq either. You would think with all the data they were given, you know, all their dead fly buddies inside, they would avoid it. You're a moron. Well… I’m not the one equating my decision making abilities to that of a fly. LOL
|
|
Odysseus
Legend
Trump=Chump
Posts: 39,224
|
Post by Odysseus on Apr 6, 2024 0:08:13 GMT
No, not just like we do. You can show a fly how to do Calculus... the fly isn't going to start doing Calculus. And no matter how many times you tell the fly to leave your food alone... he doesn't listen. Oddly enough... they never figured out the fly traps in Iraq either. You would think with all the data they were given, you know, all their dead fly buddies inside, they would avoid it. You're a moron.
That's why some of us call him Moron Man... LOL...
|
|
|
Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 1:37:53 GMT
We could, if we were automatons without free will, driven by thoughtless instinct. Btw, you know that we evolved from those thoughtless instinct driven automatons, don't you? How did the transition go from one to the other? In a day? In one generation? In a thousand? Is it one or the other, or are there creatures that are a mix of will and thoughtless instinct? In that case do they have half-faith? A quarter-faith?
Do you think faith is an absolute, like "unique"?
|
|
|
Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 1:39:12 GMT
"Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine." Luke 22:42. If you think that prayer has never been prayed by people other Jesus, I'll let you know that you're mistaken about that. Well, looks to me like praying for a cup of suffering be taken away from ME is praying for something you WANT, not something you DON'T want. The last part of that mitigates personal desire to a minimal extent. The only times I can remember praying were exclusively for me. They generally start with "please, god, I'll never drink again." It never works. I started questioning religious doctrine as a five year old kid when I saw how different my mom acted at church compared to how she acted as I knew her. It all seemed like pretend to me. Then as I got older and read about religions, I began to realize that religion has been the biggest detriment to the advancement of man. The "church" was against science for centuries if science contradicted scripture.....hell, the church would kill you if you publicly spoke against any aspect of it. Back in the day, the only people who could read and write were priests. When that began to change after the invention of the printing press, the "church" realized their days were numbered. I think of Christianity as nothing more than death worship.....the Eastern religions make a lot more sense to me. I totally reject the concept of original sin (especially after witnessing the birth of my daughter) as well as the ideo of life after deat. Life after death is real in the sense that others live even after you're gone. Life after death only applies to the people that still live after you die. And that they will perpetuate your own delusion. What's unfortunate is that you bought an erroneous narrative about prayer. Then you bought an erroneous narrative about the church and its role in history.
|
|
|
Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 1:40:17 GMT
We could, if we were automatons without free will, driven by thoughtless instinct. I think you have an obsolete view of the animal kingdom, animals learn from past mistakes, even flies do, as has been demonstrated by scientists. They act according to the data they have just like we do.
I don't do things on "faith", I choose the course of action the most likely to succeed (according to what information I have) and I know that sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, because of past experiences. I am sorry but I don't see how you can call that faith. The difference between
a human being and an animal is not as clear cut as you seem to believe and it has nothing to do with faith but more with the amount of information that a human being is capable of processing versus an animal.
You seem so intent on pushing that "faith" thing of yours that you will say anything no matter how far fetched to promote it.
That is the very definition of faith.
|
|
|
Hospital
Apr 6, 2024 2:00:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 6, 2024 2:00:53 GMT
Well… I’m not the one equating my decision making abilities to that of a fly. LOL Idiot.
|
|
|
Hospital
Apr 6, 2024 2:06:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 6, 2024 2:06:22 GMT
I think you have an obsolete view of the animal kingdom, animals learn from past mistakes, even flies do, as has been demonstrated by scientists. They act according to the data they have just like we do.
I don't do things on "faith", I choose the course of action the most likely to succeed (according to what information I have) and I know that sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, because of past experiences. I am sorry but I don't see how you can call that faith. The difference between
a human being and an animal is not as clear cut as you seem to believe and it has nothing to do with faith but more with the amount of information that a human being is capable of processing versus an animal.
You seem so intent on pushing that "faith" thing of yours that you will say anything no matter how far fetched to promote it.
That is the very definition of faith. You know what happens to words that means too many things? They end up meaning nothing.
|
|
|
Hospital
Apr 6, 2024 3:09:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by DaveJavu on Apr 6, 2024 3:09:21 GMT
Btw, you know that we evolved from those thoughtless instinct driven automatons, don't you? How did the transition go from one to the other? In a day? In one generation? In a thousand? Is it one or the other, or are there creatures that are a mix of will and thoughtless instinct? In that case do they have half-faith? A quarter-faith?
Do you think faith is an absolute, like "unique"? I honestly don't know what you're talking about, nor why you put unique between quotes. Not that your statement would be clearer without those quotes, just less bizarre.
|
|
|
Post by runswithscissors on Apr 6, 2024 3:10:33 GMT
Well, looks to me like praying for a cup of suffering be taken away from ME is praying for something you WANT, not something you DON'T want. The last part of that mitigates personal desire to a minimal extent. The only times I can remember praying were exclusively for me. They generally start with "please, god, I'll never drink again." It never works. I started questioning religious doctrine as a five year old kid when I saw how different my mom acted at church compared to how she acted as I knew her. It all seemed like pretend to me. Then as I got older and read about religions, I began to realize that religion has been the biggest detriment to the advancement of man. The "church" was against science for centuries if science contradicted scripture.....hell, the church would kill you if you publicly spoke against any aspect of it. Back in the day, the only people who could read and write were priests. When that began to change after the invention of the printing press, the "church" realized their days were numbered. I think of Christianity as nothing more than death worship.....the Eastern religions make a lot more sense to me. I totally reject the concept of original sin (especially after witnessing the birth of my daughter) as well as the ideo of life after deat. Life after death is real in the sense that others live even after you're gone. Life after death only applies to the people that still live after you die. And that they will perpetuate your own delusion. What's unfortunate is that you bought an erroneous narrative about prayer. Then you bought an erroneous narrative about the church and its role in history. Nah, what's unfortunate is that organized religion has been the bane of mankind for thousands of years. And it still is. It mainly serves as either a crutch for an individual, an excuse for a prejudice, an adjunct in service to some other core agenda, a justification for violence or war, a convenient way to advocate for or against any number of issues depending on your motives, a refuge for those who have an inate tendency to be con men, or some combination of any or all of those factors. There have been books written about this sort of thing for centuries. Before that, dissent was word of mouth, generally punishable by death. amen
|
|