Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,096
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 14, 2022 7:33:25 GMT
My Ukrainian ancestors are probably watching down from heaven with big smiles.
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 14, 2022 7:50:36 GMT
Ah and the Ukrainians also have to sustain supply lines over those very same rivers against an opponent that can take out bridges or crossings as easily as they could. Russian military is decimated and incompetent. They don't control the skies because they can't afford to lose planes and helicopters. They have exhausted their smarter bombs. They have lots of old Soviet artillery ammo, but they need people to actually occupy space. Ukraine appears to be able to conduct surgical strikes against Russian command and control and supply lines using HIMARs and Western intel. Russia appears to be quietly packing up in Crimea, not the best signal. Limey has it right. Ukraine will move to reclaim everything from Russia given Russian weakness and incompetence. Decimated? Regardless of their incompetence they still control about 1/3 of the country in a region that has a significant pro russian population. My statement still stands.
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Post by VYPR on Sept 14, 2022 8:51:59 GMT
Russian military is decimated and incompetent. They don't control the skies because they can't afford to lose planes and helicopters. They have exhausted their smarter bombs. They have lots of old Soviet artillery ammo, but they need people to actually occupy space. Ukraine appears to be able to conduct surgical strikes against Russian command and control and supply lines using HIMARs and Western intel. Russia appears to be quietly packing up in Crimea, not the best signal. Limey has it right. Ukraine will move to reclaim everything from Russia given Russian weakness and incompetence. Decimated? Regardless of their incompetence they still control about 1/3 of the country in a region that has a significant pro russian population. My statement still stands. Yes, decimated. No, they don't control 1/3 of the country. It's 1/5, 20% or less, and that includes Crimea and the eastern "republics". And that was as of Aug 24. www.wlrn.org/news/2022-08-25/6-key-numbers-that-reveal-the-staggering-impact-of-russias-war-in-ukraineHow pro-Russian is anyone at this point after Russian aggression and atrocities in this war of choice? Perhaps you can provide your polling numbers.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 14, 2022 9:34:15 GMT
Interesting. Why do you think that is? My guess is that you have plenty in the way of anger, but little in the way of solutions. The solution hasn’t changed. Allow Donbas and Luhansk their independence. Promise from NATO that Ukraine will not be allowed to join. Minimizes human suffering and lowers the risk of nuclear conflict. The MiC and Intelligence Community don’t want that.
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Post by johnnybgood on Sept 14, 2022 9:45:10 GMT
They could give them a little town near the boarder. Then Putin could say "Thats what I wanted, I won". Rozhkovychi. There's a nice lake there too. "You won Putin and we're all impressed and scared."
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Sept 14, 2022 13:06:09 GMT
My guess is that you have plenty in the way of anger, but little in the way of solutions. The solution hasn’t changed. Allow Donbas and Luhansk their independence. Promise from NATO that Ukraine will not be allowed to join. Minimizes human suffering and lowers the risk of nuclear conflict. The MiC and Intelligence Community don’t want that. Appeasement to naked aggression? Putin cannot be allowed a victory. The people of Ukraine are not to be sacrificed on the pyre of his madness. Putin manufactured this crisis. Luhansk, Donbas and Crimea are not his for the taking. Putin must go. That is the only acceptable solution.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 14, 2022 13:16:34 GMT
The solution hasn’t changed. Allow Donbas and Luhansk their independence. Promise from NATO that Ukraine will not be allowed to join. Minimizes human suffering and lowers the risk of nuclear conflict. The MiC and Intelligence Community don’t want that. Appeasement to naked aggression? Putin cannot be allowed a victory. The people of Ukraine are not to be sacrificed on the pyre of his madness. Putin manufactured this crisis. Luhansk, Donbas and Crimea are not his for the taking. Putin must go. That is the only acceptable solution. The neocons really did a number on you. Who appeases the US government during our moments of naked aggression?
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,194
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Post by demos on Sept 14, 2022 16:42:52 GMT
You are using a lot of words to tell those of us who have gone out and done this kind of thing for real that you aren't really qualified to have this conversation. I have asked you a few pointed questions to try to get a gauge on what you actually know, and you aren't impressing me. You have demonstrated no knowledge how military operations actually work, and how learning to coordinate things at the staff level and above are the result of YEARS of training and experience. Any look at the RUS army will tell you what it is failing at, and why. Take a look and get back to me. There was no 'shifting of the goalposts' because the Chechen wars and campaigns like Operation Bagration and the Vistula-Oder Operation were VERY different things. Not the same ballpark, not the same league, not even the same sport, and if you had a better base of knowledge, you would know this. I gave you the opportunity to correct yourself or seek clarification. Instead, you doubled down. I say the same things over and over because - 1. They bear repeating because they (obviously) aren't sinking in 2. You aren't getting them (willfully?) I have no insight into Putin's mind. The attempt at decapitating the UKR government made the intent obvious (unless you are hugely invested in believing what is obvious is not true). I cite practical experience because in this case it is relevant in discrediting your sources. Until you or your sources have worked at the S/G/J 1-9 levels, you are merely amateurs. All you that say here just amounts to some chest thumping about how you've done this or have some experience that gives you special knowledge that others don't have. You don't actually provide any incite based on that experience.
Why don't you actually say something that might enlighten others on the board. If you think what I've cited is wrong, then please clarify what they're wrong about and why.
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Post by limey² on Sept 14, 2022 18:35:03 GMT
Bridges get blown up by skilled, determined saboteurs, by combat engineers, by air attack or by powerful standoff weapons. Once the Ukranians are over the relevant rivers, the Russians won't be reliably able to do any of those. I'd suggest Ukraine will conduct a full reclamation of their territory with a very blunt "for us (stay) against us (leave)" option presented to the former 'rebel' territory population. Ah and the Ukrainians also have to sustain supply lines over those very same rivers against an opponent that can take out bridges or crossings as easily as they could. Probably the Russians won't, in fact, be able to destroy these bridges as easily as the Ukrainians do.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Sept 15, 2022 1:42:47 GMT
Appeasement to naked aggression? Putin cannot be allowed a victory. The people of Ukraine are not to be sacrificed on the pyre of his madness. Putin manufactured this crisis. Luhansk, Donbas and Crimea are not his for the taking. Putin must go. That is the only acceptable solution. The neocons really did a number on you. Who appeases the US government during our moments of naked aggression? Two wrong appeasements don't make a right one. As for the neocons, I never went to war for them.
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 15, 2022 6:16:24 GMT
Decimated? Regardless of their incompetence they still control about 1/3 of the country in a region that has a significant pro russian population. My statement still stands. Yes, decimated. No, they don't control 1/3 of the country. It's 1/5, 20% or less, and that includes Crimea and the eastern "republics". And that was as of Aug 24. www.wlrn.org/news/2022-08-25/6-key-numbers-that-reveal-the-staggering-impact-of-russias-war-in-ukraineHow pro-Russian is anyone at this point after Russian aggression and atrocities in this war of choice? Perhaps you can provide your polling numbers. I imagine the people in eastern Ukraine who have been in open civil war against the government of Ukraine for several years are likely open to direct Russian involvement. I don't have any polls, do you?
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,410
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Post by thor on Sept 15, 2022 6:19:04 GMT
You are using a lot of words to tell those of us who have gone out and done this kind of thing for real that you aren't really qualified to have this conversation. I have asked you a few pointed questions to try to get a gauge on what you actually know, and you aren't impressing me. You have demonstrated no knowledge how military operations actually work, and how learning to coordinate things at the staff level and above are the result of YEARS of training and experience. Any look at the RUS army will tell you what it is failing at, and why. Take a look and get back to me. There was no 'shifting of the goalposts' because the Chechen wars and campaigns like Operation Bagration and the Vistula-Oder Operation were VERY different things. Not the same ballpark, not the same league, not even the same sport, and if you had a better base of knowledge, you would know this. I gave you the opportunity to correct yourself or seek clarification. Instead, you doubled down. I say the same things over and over because - 1. They bear repeating because they (obviously) aren't sinking in 2. You aren't getting them (willfully?) I have no insight into Putin's mind. The attempt at decapitating the UKR government made the intent obvious (unless you are hugely invested in believing what is obvious is not true). I cite practical experience because in this case it is relevant in discrediting your sources. Until you or your sources have worked at the S/G/J 1-9 levels, you are merely amateurs. All you that say here just amounts to some chest thumping about how you've done this or have some experience that gives you special knowledge that others don't have. You don't actually provide any incite based on that experience.
Why don't you actually say something that might enlighten others on the board. If you think what I've cited is wrong, then please clarify what they're wrong about and why.
Sigh. You have been opining that 'communications and logistical issues should have been worked out in training'. OK. Say that they were. What is not present during training?
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 15, 2022 6:32:07 GMT
Ah and the Ukrainians also have to sustain supply lines over those very same rivers against an opponent that can take out bridges or crossings as easily as they could. Probably the Russians won't, in fact, be able to destroy these bridges as easily as the Ukrainians do. Umm...the Ukrainians already destroyed the bridges. They would need to rebuild them or find some other means and the Russians can bomb them from the air or with artillery.
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Post by limey² on Sept 15, 2022 6:40:13 GMT
Probably the Russians won't, in fact, be able to destroy these bridges as easily as the Ukrainians do. Umm...the Ukrainians already destroyed the bridges. They would need to rebuild them or find some other means and the Russians can bomb them from the air or with artillery. Artillery has a maximum range. Ukraine has systems that outrange Russian artillery. Bridges are fixed in place. AA systems will keep Russian aircraft away, or shoot them down.
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 15, 2022 6:45:32 GMT
Umm...the Ukrainians already destroyed the bridges. They would need to rebuild them or find some other means and the Russians can bomb them from the air or with artillery. Artillery has a maximum range. Ukraine has systems that outrange Russian artillery. Bridges are fixed in place. AA systems will keep Russian aircraft away, or shoot them down. Russians have been striking targets across Ukraine and Russian troops are literally right across the river. They didn't flee from Ukraine like the propaganda portrays it.
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,410
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Post by thor on Sept 15, 2022 6:53:40 GMT
Umm...the Ukrainians already destroyed the bridges. They would need to rebuild them or find some other means and the Russians can bomb them from the air or with artillery. Artillery has a maximum range. Ukraine has systems that outrange Russian artillery. Bridges are fixed in place. AA systems will keep Russian aircraft away, or shoot them down. Since he has been beating his meat watching Russia Today, Shitbag is not aware of 'Counter-Battery' fires. Pity.
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Post by VYPR on Sept 15, 2022 7:23:04 GMT
I imagine the people in eastern Ukraine who have been in open civil war against the government of Ukraine for several years are likely open to direct Russian involvement. I don't have any polls, do you? So your 1/3 number was fictional and was actually 1/5 and you have no idea at all of the extent of support for Russia, especially given the hostile actions of Russia and the devastation wrought by their optional needless war. .
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Post by limey² on Sept 15, 2022 8:11:39 GMT
Artillery has a maximum range. Ukraine has systems that outrange Russian artillery. Bridges are fixed in place. AA systems will keep Russian aircraft away, or shoot them down. Russians have been striking targets across Ukraine and Russian troops are literally right across the river. They didn't flee from Ukraine like the propaganda portrays it. They haven't yet fled from all of Ukraine, that's true. Once a force has advanced far enough from a bridge, with current weapons available to the Russians, that bridge is at low risk.
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Post by limey² on Sept 15, 2022 8:20:42 GMT
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,410
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Post by thor on Sept 15, 2022 11:35:22 GMT
To be fair, I was speaking of UKR artillery using CB fires to hammer RUS batteries. They have been making outstanding use of UAVs for ISR and other purposes (I am certain FO-ing is one of them). Getting a 13-digit grid location with a UAV, uploading it to a firing battery aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand.....
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