bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,591
|
Post by bama beau on Jul 24, 2020 19:24:39 GMT
You can't have it both ways. Did the statues stand for something? If so, what? They were "monuments" to something which you are still defending. What is that "something"? And if they didn't, if they were meaningless or harmless now, why were they still standing? Ergo, if they stood for insurrection, slavery and oppression, they should have been torn down (long ago), and if they stood there for nothing, then what reason could you possibly have for defending them? If a monument stands for nothing, is it really a monument? Or is it just another place for pigeons to poop and Greg to pee?
Interesting that you lumped Greg in with animals that soil what they don't have the brains to understand.
Why wouldn't I, as in this instance they both have it right? And while we're at it, piss on you too, unless while lighting your cross, you should happen to catch fire. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 20:03:12 GMT
And I've already proven that the Confederate statues were not put up "in hate, for hate". Do you need another lesson?
No Paleocon. You proved you were a racist. Despite my every attempt to give you the benefit of the doubt, you spent page after page cherry picking data points that confirmed your biases and ignoring all others. You insisted "No, fuck you all, I'm a racist and here's why that's okay!" Go tear down the statue to Lincoln and MLK then. I don't give a shit. Queshank |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 22:51:23 GMT
No Paleocon. You proved you were a racist. Despite my every attempt to give you the benefit of the doubt, you spent page after page cherry picking data points that confirmed your biases and ignoring all others. You insisted "No, fuck you all, I'm a racist and here's why that's okay!" Go tear down the statue to Lincoln and MLK then. I don't give a shit. Queshank "Racist"? Not true at all; even you've correctly said that I wasn't a racist, but how quickly you've changed your tune.
Jun 22, 2020 at 11:19am paleocon said:
Again, I am not defending slavery nor would I ever do so, but I will defend the underlying facts that complicate and add contradictory layers to a narrative made simple BY political considerations. Slavery was evil, a horrible stain on all of us; I truly wish that it had never been brought to these shores. We could have prevented it; only 4% of African slaves were brought here, but our collective greed was too great. Still is.
Jun 22, 2020 20:10:48 GMT -4 queshank said:
I wanna point out, I've never thought you were a racist or thought you were defending slavery a single time in this thread. I have very good friends ... good people and non racists as well ... who make the same arguments you've made in this thread. We focus on where we agree and agree to disagree on the stuff that doesn't matter anymore. Usually. But this isn't a fight you are going to win. You're trying to push a boulder, covered in baby oil and thorns, up a 90 degree incline.
I've not changed my argument, tactics, logic or my honest expression of those things nor have the facts I've presented changed. I look forward to more objectivity next time. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 23:37:11 GMT
No Paleocon. You proved you were a racist. Despite my every attempt to give you the benefit of the doubt, you spent page after page cherry picking data points that confirmed your biases and ignoring all others. You insisted "No, fuck you all, I'm a racist and here's why that's okay!" Go tear down the statue to Lincoln and MLK then. I don't give a shit. Queshank "Racist"? Not true at all; even you've correctly said that I wasn't a racist, but how quickly you've changed your tune.
Jun 22, 2020 at 11:19am paleocon said:
Again, I am not defending slavery nor would I ever do so, but I will defend the underlying facts that complicate and add contradictory layers to a narrative made simple BY political considerations. Slavery was evil, a horrible stain on all of us; I truly wish that it had never been brought to these shores. We could have prevented it; only 4% of African slaves were brought here, but our collective greed was too great. Still is.
Jun 22, 2020 20:10:48 GMT -4 queshank said:
I wanna point out, I've never thought you were a racist or thought you were defending slavery a single time in this thread. I have very good friends ... good people and non racists as well ... who make the same arguments you've made in this thread. We focus on where we agree and agree to disagree on the stuff that doesn't matter anymore. Usually. But this isn't a fight you are going to win. You're trying to push a boulder, covered in baby oil and thorns, up a 90 degree incline.
I've not changed my argument, tactics, logic or my honest expression of those things nor have the facts I've presented changed. I look forward to more objectivity next time.
That's my point Paleocon.
I tried like hell to give you the benefit of the doubt. Time and time again. I kept saying to myself "He just doesn't understand what he's saying. He'll figure it out. The arguments and facts being brought to this discussion by Fiddler and TL and others are insurmountable."
But no. You kept yelling at the top of your lungs "FUCK YOU ALL I'M A RACIST!"
At some point I had to give up and give you your due.
Queshank
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 23:38:43 GMT
Or. I guess... you're stupid.
But I don't see that.
So you don't leave a lot of alternatives.
Dman embraces it. He's not stupid. He's just a racist. You'll probably feel better about yourself if you just admit it and stop spending so much time trying to rationalize all these racist things as "not racist."
Queshank
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 4:23:06 GMT
That's my point Paleocon.
I tried like hell to give you the benefit of the doubt. Time and time again. I kept saying to myself "He just doesn't understand what he's saying. He'll figure it out. The arguments and facts being brought to this discussion by Fiddler and TL and others are insurmountable."
But no. You kept yelling at the top of your lungs "FUCK YOU ALL I'M A RACIST!"
At some point I had to give up and give you your due.
Queshank
"Insurmountable"? Are you kidding or just blind? The garbage that they have presented was and is laughable; TL couldn't provide anything more than sparse anecdotal evidence or isolated examples during the entire discussion and Fiddler was little more than a cheerleader who added nothing substantive at all.
There's NOTHING racist in what I have posted. I'm the one pointing out the racism and the ignorance on the liberal side, while also exposing the fatal flaws in their rote repetition of the Northern propaganda, nothing more or less.
I would recommend that you look up the definition of racism since you are obviously unfamiliar with what the word means.
Explain to us how the bloody hell is it "racist" to show that history is messy and complicated rather than full of spandex covered comic book heroes and villains?
If you want to swallow a simpleton's cartoonish version of history tailored for the snowflakes, that's up to you. You have my pity and sympathy if that's your choice. But the "racist" accusation was, is and always will be false.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 4:42:11 GMT
Or. I guess... you're stupid. But I don't see that. So you don't leave a lot of alternatives. Dman embraces it. He's not stupid. He's just a racist. You'll probably feel better about yourself if you just admit it and stop spending so much time trying to rationalize all these racist things as "not racist." Queshank No, you just can't accept the one alternative that does make the most sense because it damages your favored narrative and really puts both the 19th century Union thugs and those now undertaking this despicable purge in a very bad light.
The facts of that alternative are 1) the I'm no racist nor have I ever been and 2) I'm right and your friends are wrong about the history of the South in the 19th and early 20th centuries and 3) I've proven both.
What you should understand is that I'm simply after the whole truth and the whole story, and political correctness and name calling be damned. I don't tolerate less than the whole truth; there's just too much stupidity about history nowadays to leave it alone.
Calling me a racist, which is not true, just lessens the accuser, not me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 15:27:55 GMT
That's my point Paleocon.
I tried like hell to give you the benefit of the doubt. Time and time again. I kept saying to myself "He just doesn't understand what he's saying. He'll figure it out. The arguments and facts being brought to this discussion by Fiddler and TL and others are insurmountable."
But no. You kept yelling at the top of your lungs "FUCK YOU ALL I'M A RACIST!"
At some point I had to give up and give you your due.
Queshank
"Insurmountable"? Are you kidding or just blind? The garbage that they have presented was and is laughable; TL couldn't provide anything more than sparse anecdotal evidence or isolated examples during the entire discussion and Fiddler was little more than a cheerleader who added nothing substantive at all.
Your inability to process that information is what has forced me to admit, you are indeed a racist. Your insistence on calling the actual primary sources "laughable" is what has forced me to admit, you are indeed a racist.
Like I said, it's either that or you're stupid. And I don't think you're stupid.
Queshank
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 15:30:38 GMT
Fiddler and TL are just repeating arguments we have all used for well over a decade on the boards. Time and time again. They were really prevalent on the boards back in the days Judemeyer used to post. (miss that guy.) You just weren't someone involved in those conversations. /shrug. TL, Fiddler and I were tho.
The only reason I didn't join them is I don't care, I'm tired of trying to convince racists not to be racist. It's like trying to convince a Christian not to be a Christian. Your responses were similar to my YEC friend's responses regarding 'answersingenesis.org' and anything by that ridiculous clown Ken Hamm.
Queshank
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 16:07:22 GMT
The systematic dismissal of the primary sources is extraordinary.
Is that racism or stupidity? I'd say its probably a bit of both.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fiddler on Jul 25, 2020 16:23:08 GMT
You poor thing .. .. who knew that blasphemy was gonna be your end game ..
Blasphemy? And what, pray tell is this impiousness that I have allegedly committed?
Why your perversion of Niemöller's confession of course. It's sickening.
|
|
Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
|
Post by Odysseus on Jul 25, 2020 16:24:47 GMT
The systematic dismissal of the primary sources is extraordinary. Is that racism or stupidity? I'd say its probably a bit of both.
Since racism is essentially stupidity, you may be right.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 17:56:55 GMT
"Insurmountable"? Are you kidding or just blind? The garbage that they have presented was and is laughable; TL couldn't provide anything more than sparse anecdotal evidence or isolated examples during the entire discussion and Fiddler was little more than a cheerleader who added nothing substantive at all.
Your inability to process that information is what has forced me to admit, you are indeed a racist. Your insistence on calling the actual primary sources "laughable" is what has forced me to admit, you are indeed a racist.
Like I said, it's either that or you're stupid. And I don't think you're stupid.
Queshank
And I'm disappointed. I took you for an objective observer and clearly I was wrong. What TL, Fiddler and their ilk presented was little more than cherry picking to fit their narrative. Their primary sources were not sufficient to draw the conclusions that they have drawn and that's the point that I made to them.
And falsely calling someone a racist for pointing that out is intellectually lazy and, ironically, also is not supported by the evidence.
The fact that you resorted to such a low brow tactic as pulling out the race card is sad and disheartening.
Since you failed miserably to answer the question, I ask again: how the bloody hell is it "racist" to show that history is messy and complicated rather than full of spandex covered comic book heroes and villains?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 18:01:38 GMT
Fiddler and TL are just repeating arguments we have all used for well over a decade on the boards. Time and time again. They were really prevalent on the boards back in the days Judemeyer used to post. (miss that guy.) You just weren't someone involved in those conversations. /shrug. TL, Fiddler and I were tho. The only reason I didn't join them is I don't care, I'm tired of trying to convince racists not to be racist. It's like trying to convince a Christian not to be a Christian. Your responses were similar to my YEC friend's responses regarding 'answersingenesis.org' and anything by that ridiculous clown Ken Hamm. Queshank If you don't care, why have you devolved into this laughably false name calling now? Evidently, I struck a nerve that didn't get tickled back in the old days, because a repetition of those old arguments won't cut it with me as I have demonstrated. Facts are my weapon of choice against the tired old Yankee spawned fiction
No wonder you felt that you had to pull out the race card. All because I don't accept your narrative and can back up my interpretation with facts and logic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 18:28:26 GMT
The systematic dismissal of the primary sources is extraordinary. Is that racism or stupidity? I'd say its probably a bit of both. No one has dismissed your sources or ignored their content. I likely knew of that content long before you did, or at least understood it better. But cherry picking such things to draw a conclusion is not logically sound. Cherry picking a paragraph here and a sentence there is little more than tactics to bolster a confirmation bias.
Stupidity? Using the race card to desperately try to deflect an opponent who's winning the argument is the height of stupidity.
I'll ask you as well: how is it racist simply to argue that there is more to a story than you are telling? How is it not intolerance to resort to such name calling when someone doesn't acquiesce to your version of events?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 18:37:31 GMT
The systematic dismissal of the primary sources is extraordinary. Is that racism or stupidity? I'd say its probably a bit of both. No one has dismissed your sources or ignored their content. I likely knew of that content long before you did, or at least understood it better. But cherry picking such things to draw a conclusion is not logically sound. Cherry picking a paragraph here and a sentence there is little more than tactics to bolster a confirmation bias.
Stupidity? Using the race card to desperately try to deflect an opponent who's winning the argument is the height of stupidity.
I'll ask you as well: how is it racist simply to argue that there is more to a story than you are telling? How is it not intolerance to resort to such name calling when someone doesn't acquiesce to your version of events?
Cherry picked? We pointed to dedication speech after dedication speech after dedication speech. We found enough to fill a book and we barely even looked. And then there are the secession declarations and ordinances. All of it points to the overwhelming importance of the slave question. Yes, there were other issues. But without slavery there wouldn't have been a war. The fact of the matter is there is more to history than the story you are telling about some southerners standing up for the constitution and limited government. That is an overly simplistic, reductionistic, distorted narrative abut the past that conceals more than it illuminates. To hear you tell it, racial ideas about inferiority weren't a motivating factor for the south. You have the whole board believing you are a racist because you side with racists (the confederacy) in a way that doesn't make sense intellectually, rationally or factually. It does make sense as a function of tribe and identity. We conclude you run cover for the confederacy because you identity with them and their cause. No one honestly weighing the facts would come to the conclusions you have. |
|
bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,591
|
Post by bama beau on Jul 25, 2020 20:59:33 GMT
Calling me a racist, which is not true, just lessens the accuser, not me. It would be damn near impossible for any of us to lessen you, given the job you have already made of it. |
|
bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,591
|
Post by bama beau on Jul 25, 2020 21:07:58 GMT
No one has dismissed your sources or ignored their content. I likely knew of that content long before you did, or at least understood it better. But cherry picking such things to draw a conclusion is not logically sound. Cherry picking a paragraph here and a sentence there is little more than tactics to bolster a confirmation bias.
Stupidity? Using the race card to desperately try to deflect an opponent who's winning the argument is the height of stupidity.
I'll ask you as well: how is it racist simply to argue that there is more to a story than you are telling? How is it not intolerance to resort to such name calling when someone doesn't acquiesce to your version of events?
Cherry picked? We pointed to dedication speech after dedication speech after dedication speech. We found enough to fill a book and we barely even looked. And then there are the secession declarations and ordinances. All of it points to the overwhelming importance of the slave question. Yes, there were other issues. But without slavery there wouldn't have been a war. The fact of the matter is there is more to history than the story you are telling about some southerners standing up for the constitution and limited government. That is an overly simplistic, reductionistic, distorted narrative abut the past that conceals more than it illuminates. To hear you tell it, racial ideas about inferiority weren't a motivating factor for the south. You have the whole board believing you are a racist because you side with racists (the confederacy) in a way that doesn't make sense intellectually, rationally or factually. It does make sense as a function of tribe and identity. We conclude you run cover for the confederacy because you identity with them and their cause. No one honestly weighing the facts would come to the conclusions you have. I've taken to thinking of him as a cross between George Wallace and Foghorn Leghorn. At least then his arguments sound as funny as they smell. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 23:21:53 GMT
Cherry picked? We pointed to dedication speech after dedication speech after dedication speech. We found enough to fill a book and we barely even looked. And then there are the secession declarations and ordinances. All of it points to the overwhelming importance of the slave question. Yes, there were other issues. But without slavery there wouldn't have been a war. The fact of the matter is there is more to history than the story you are telling about some southerners standing up for the constitution and limited government. That is an overly simplistic, reductionistic, distorted narrative abut the past that conceals more than it illuminates. To hear you tell it, racial ideas about inferiority weren't a motivating factor for the south. You have the whole board believing you are a racist because you side with racists (the confederacy) in a way that doesn't make sense intellectually, rationally or factually. It does make sense as a function of tribe and identity. We conclude you run cover for the confederacy because you identity with them and their cause. No one honestly weighing the facts would come to the conclusions you have. I've taken to thinking of him as a across between George Wallace and Foghorn Leghorn. At least then his arguments sound as funny as they smell. I say, I say, that's funny. |
|
petep
Legend
Posts: 26,021
|
Post by petep on Jul 26, 2020 21:39:54 GMT
Look, it’s horribly embarrassing where the violence and looting and rioting and an utter complete failure to manage it is happening - we see who is doing it and who is committing all of this.
Condemn the violence and you are labeled a racist. It’s a horrible strategy by the left, but what else can they do. Claim it’s not their fault?
|
|
