RWB
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Post by RWB on Jul 9, 2020 4:01:36 GMT
We defund Welfare?
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Post by crepe05 on Jul 9, 2020 12:29:50 GMT
My preference is no, absolutely no, zero, zilch defunding of our police and a 10% ta cut across the board of our entire budget. Yes, that includes the military, and any other favorite project of yours (my favorite budget cause is the military. We need them). Of course that also would include welfare which definitely is not my favorite drain of the budget. I don't know if Congress is listed in the budget, but cut their pay 10% also. That would be a start.
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jul 9, 2020 12:58:03 GMT
How about we defund farm, defense contractor and oil subsidies?
Greg
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 9, 2020 13:10:40 GMT
If we do are you gonna have to up your meth sales to finish paying for your house trailer? And that doesn't take into account payments on your gold tooth.
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Post by freonbale on Jul 9, 2020 13:15:03 GMT
Why is defunding the police bad?
If they perform a function that is not appropriate for their training, have a different organization who IS trained do it, and give the money you would normally give to the police, to the other organization.
It's not like the police will go away. They will just be paid to do the things they are trained for.
Where is the problem here?
Freon
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robth
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Posts: 131
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Post by robth on Jul 9, 2020 16:57:04 GMT
Why is defunding the police bad? If they perform a function that is not appropriate for their training, have a different organization who IS trained do it, and give the money you would normally give to the police, to the other organization. It's not like the police will go away. They will just be paid to do the things they are trained for. Where is the problem here? Freon Looking at the cases where the police have been accused of using excessive force....which of these weren't they trained for? |
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Post by freonbale on Jul 9, 2020 17:12:36 GMT
Why is defunding the police bad? If they perform a function that is not appropriate for their training, have a different organization who IS trained do it, and give the money you would normally give to the police, to the other organization. It's not like the police will go away. They will just be paid to do the things they are trained for. Where is the problem here? Freon Looking at the cases where the police have been accused of using excessive force....which of these weren't they trained for? Don't look at it that way.
If the police are doing jobs a, b, c, and d, and they could be doing job a better, it is a reasonable conclusion that b, c, and d, are interfering with a.
If they ONLY focus on a, then they can begin to do a better job at it.
Freon
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 9, 2020 18:06:15 GMT
My preference is no, absolutely no, zero, zilch defunding of our police and a 10% ta cut across the board of our entire budget. Yes, that includes the military, and any other favorite project of yours (my favorite budget cause is the military. We need them). Of course that also would include welfare which definitely is not my favorite drain of the budget. I don't know if Congress is listed in the budget, but cut their pay 10% also. That would be a start. Some of the arguments for defunding include using funding to bring unarmed trained facilitators to things like domestic disputes or crime scenes that have already occurred, rather than fully armed quasi-soldiers anticipating and brimming for violence. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 20:49:14 GMT
Why is defunding the police bad? If they perform a function that is not appropriate for their training, have a different organization who IS trained do it, and give the money you would normally give to the police, to the other organization. It's not like the police will go away. They will just be paid to do the things they are trained for. Where is the problem here? Freon This, like "leading from behind" is an example of people on the left choosing astonishingly bad wording to promote an otherwise meritous idea. I get that "reorganizing the police to make sure that their duties are, as much as possible, limited to necessary law enforcement and emergency response, thereby freeing an overburdened system of unneeded stress that leads to burnout, hopelessness and other ailments that can encourage bad behavior and diverting some of those funds to other departments of government that can better handle them" isn't exactly catchy, but certainly they could have come up with a better slogan than "defund the police" which the layman is obviously going to interpret as...you know... defunding the police. I can certainly get on board with the idea that some of the tasks currently assigned to police can either be eliminated or given to other parts of the government, but couldn't they have come up with a better slogan to summarize it? |
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Post by MojoJojo on Jul 9, 2020 20:57:58 GMT
Yeah, "defunding" is a term that leaves little wiggle room and kinda traps the meaning to something that is not immediately associated with "defund". I suspect at first it really meant what it says then, as the imagery made the rounds, we really meant to say...
It's a sensible change but a new word or term needs to supersede "defund".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 21:01:52 GMT
Yeah, "defunding" is a term that leaves little wiggle room and kinda traps the meaning to something that is not immediately associated with "defund". I suspect at first it really meant what it says then, as the imagery made the rounds, we really meant to say... It's a sensible change but a new word or term needs to supersede "defund". "Streamline" would certainly be better. There you go leftists! No charge from yours truly! Honestly, I think some of these people on the left (not you) would be at a total loss if tasked with getting an 8-year-old excited about a trip to Disney World. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 9, 2020 21:19:19 GMT
This, like "leading from behind" is an example of people on the left choosing astonishingly bad wording to promote an otherwise meritous idea. Absolutely. At best, "bad marketing." |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 21:32:34 GMT
This, like "leading from behind" is an example of people on the left choosing astonishingly bad wording to promote an otherwise meritous idea. Absolutely. At best, "bad marketing." OT, but I don't think I ever acknowledged you taking my advice on your "fresh" avatar! It's a sweet new look. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 9, 2020 21:45:57 GMT
How much to do you think cities and counties spend on welfare programs? Police department budgets are often the largest budget items for local governments. Some of that money could arguably go towards mental health programs, addressing homelessness, drug/alcohol treatment programs, which would alleviate pressure on police to handle those situations. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 9, 2020 22:09:46 GMT
The entire conversation is wrong. Define police role in society and staff it accordingly locally to meet stated goals.
If someone is acting improperly - criminally. Then charge the person or persons severely.
But the mission and goal posts should not move, unless there is a non govt alternative to meet the states mission and goals.
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Post by atreyu on Jul 9, 2020 22:15:06 GMT
The entire conversation is wrong. Define police role in society and staff it accordingly locally to meet stated goals. If someone is acting improperly - criminally. Then charge the person or persons severely. But the mission and goal posts should not move, unless there is a non govt alternative to meet the states mission and goals.
You're not wrong, in fact you're saying "defund the police" yourself. Police do not need military gear and tanks to serve their goals. It's just the opposite.
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 9, 2020 22:19:32 GMT
I’m not so sure about “military gear” part
I know many officers in Los Angeles and Detroit who have been shot at far more times that soldiers who did 4 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I’d want bullet proof vests and some semi auto weapons if I were an officer facing people who are trying to kill me.
What specific gear would u eliminate or say is off limits to police.
I’m not aware of police forces with armored, armed tanks. They could be out there, but I’m not aware of any.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 22:20:03 GMT
The entire conversation is wrong. Define police role in society and staff it accordingly locally to meet stated goals. If someone is acting improperly - criminally. Then charge the person or persons severely. But the mission and goal posts should not move, unless there is a non govt alternative to meet the states mission and goals. You seem to be treating "the police role in society" and "the mission" as two different things as you want to define the first (and make decisions based on that definition) but not change the second. But change would seem to be a part of the definition process. Am I misunderstanding you? |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 9, 2020 22:24:58 GMT
Actually, if the primary intent is to bring the issue of police brutality, racism, and murder to the forefront of the public discourse, then "Defund the Police" as a catch phrase has done its job quite well.
Maestro proposes a namby-pamby inoffensive alternative, which, like many before it, would generate little attention and ultimately fail to gain traction and fix what's broken.
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Post by atreyu on Jul 9, 2020 22:29:23 GMT
I’m not so sure about “military gear” part I know many officers in Los Angeles and Detroit who have been shot at far more times that soldiers who did 4 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I’d want bullet proof vests and some semi auto weapons if I were an officer facing people who are trying to kill me. What specific gear would u eliminate or say is off limits to police. I’m not aware of police forces with armored, armed tanks. They could be out there, but I’m not aware of any.
No one is saying take away bullet proof vests or semi auto weapons. Police having access to military grade hardware is well known and discussed issue. People are getting fed up with it. Judging from your lack of awareness about these issues, I can see why you misunderstand "defund the police".
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