demos
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Post by demos on Nov 19, 2024 15:51:58 GMT
Would you say that the MAGA organized violence on Jan. 6th applies?
That was hardly organized. That was a bunch of idiots caught up in a moment doing stupid crap like smearing shit on the walls.
Also, it was a one off event. Fascists used sustained, organized violence to rise to power and maintain that power, and they targeted specific groups (communists, pacifists, Jews, etc.). None of that happened in 2016 or in 2024.
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Post by freonbale on Nov 19, 2024 16:09:06 GMT
That is mildly comforting. But tempered against having too few data points to form a believable trend. Freon There were several fascists movements. Just not all of them were successful. The success of them is not relevant to me. It's the rise of them that I am concerned about. And the starting point of those movements, I'm guessing, was not from a system/government like we have in America today, therefore we can only casually infer what it will look like here. I believe it is worthy to be cautious of Fascism, to call it out if it even remotely looks like it could take hold. I believe that the path towards it here will be slow and insidious, leveraging existing tropes such as patriotism, being a 'good' Christian, etc. instead of some overt departure that makes it obvious to spot. The bulk of the country is not very educated. And it's clear they do not know how to discern truth from fiction. That makes them ripe for the hijacking. Freon |
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demos
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Post by demos on Nov 19, 2024 16:26:18 GMT
The success of them is not relevant to me. It's the rise of them that I am concerned about. Indeed, the success of them isn't relevant to their use of violence either (though in it at least one case, its why they weren't successful). Look at the German-American Bund and their allies the Christian Front. They both wrapped themselves in American symbols. But were ultimately unsuccessful for the same reason other fascist movements were not (the Bund also had a lot of internal issues which led to its collapse). Both groups also engaged in organized violence; the Front in particular targeting Jews. (See here and here)
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 19, 2024 17:15:32 GMT
Would you say that the MAGA organized violence on Jan. 6th applies?
That was hardly organized. That was a bunch of idiots caught up in a moment doing stupid crap like smearing shit on the walls.
Also, it was a one off event. Fascists used sustained, organized violence to rise to power and maintain that power, and they targeted specific groups (communists, pacifists, Jews, etc.). None of that happened in 2016 or in 2024.
IDK.. Bringing bear spray, zip ties, and wood to build a gallows to a rally sounds rather organized..
It seems that specific groups ARE being targeted.. I don't limit the definition of violence to simply being physical attacks .. Violence can also be attacking groups rights and financial stability as well ..
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 19, 2024 17:17:35 GMT
That was hardly organized. That was a bunch of idiots caught up in a moment doing stupid crap like smearing shit on the walls.
Also, it was a one off event. Fascists used sustained, organized violence to rise to power and maintain that power, and they targeted specific groups (communists, pacifists, Jews, etc.). None of that happened in 2016 or in 2024.
IDK.. Bringing bear spray, zip ties, and wood to build a gallows to a rally sounds rather organized..
It seems that specific groups ARE being targeted.. I don't limit the definition of violence to simply being physical attacks .. Violence can also be attacking groups rights and financial stability as well ..
You mean like this Mr Proportions that ignores everything his side did for the past 8 years?
Sounds organized.
Must be fascism.
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demos
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Post by demos on Nov 19, 2024 17:21:08 GMT
IDK.. Bringing bear spray, zip ties, and wood to build a gallows to a rally sounds rather organized..
It seems that specific groups ARE being targeted.. I don't limit the definition of violence to simply being physical attacks .. Violence can also be attacking groups rights and financial stability as well ..
People came organized for a protest and a rally. What happened after that was more spontaneous, which seemed pretty obvious watching it. Hundreds of people didn't bring zip ties or bear spray. And very, very few people have been charged with sedition.
And if we're just going to start changing the definition of things, then I guess we can call whatever we want violence. Personally, I'll stick to the actual definition.
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 19, 2024 17:45:12 GMT
Think I'll just leave this here.
Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO.
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petep
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Post by petep on Nov 19, 2024 19:56:29 GMT
IDK.. Bringing bear spray, zip ties, and wood to build a gallows to a rally sounds rather organized..
It seems that specific groups ARE being targeted.. I don't limit the definition of violence to simply being physical attacks .. Violence can also be attacking groups rights and financial stability as well ..
People came organized for a protest and a rally. What happened after that was more spontaneous, which seemed pretty obvious watching it. Hundreds of people didn't bring zip ties or bear spray. And very, very few people have been charged with sedition.
And if we're just going to start changing the definition of things, then I guess we can call whatever we want violence. Personally, I'll stick to the actual definition.
Wood to bring gallows. Yes. A couple 4x4’s and one resting across the top. Did you see how it was dismantled? Fids obviously doesn’t know what the working end of a hammer looks like. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Nov 19, 2024 22:32:32 GMT
IDK.. Bringing bear spray, zip ties, and wood to build a gallows to a rally sounds rather organized..
It seems that specific groups ARE being targeted.. I don't limit the definition of violence to simply being physical attacks .. Violence can also be attacking groups rights and financial stability as well ..
People came organized for a protest and a rally. What happened after that was more spontaneous, which seemed pretty obvious watching it. Hundreds of people didn't bring zip ties or bear spray. And very, very few people have been charged with sedition.
And if we're just going to start changing the definition of things, then I guess we can call whatever we want violence. Personally, I'll stick to the actual definition.
You're doing a fine job of telling us you were successfully gas-lit these past four years, buddy. It was so 'spontaneous' they had the materials to build a gallows. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Nov 19, 2024 22:34:33 GMT
People came organized for a protest and a rally. What happened after that was more spontaneous, which seemed pretty obvious watching it. Hundreds of people didn't bring zip ties or bear spray. And very, very few people have been charged with sedition.
And if we're just going to start changing the definition of things, then I guess we can call whatever we want violence. Personally, I'll stick to the actual definition.
Wood to bring gallows. Yes. A couple 4x4’s and one resting across the top. Did you see how it was dismantled? Fids obviously doesn’t know what the working end of a hammer looks like.  |
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demos
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Post by demos on Nov 19, 2024 22:47:01 GMT
You're doing a fine job of telling us you were successfully gas-lit these past four years, buddy. It was so 'spontaneous' they had the materials to build a gallows. Do you think the gallows was erected while the riot was going on? Or are you confused about what we're talking about? Because I'm talking about when people stormed into the Capitol. That wasn't organized; that was a clusterfuck.
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thor
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Post by thor on Nov 19, 2024 22:49:40 GMT
You're doing a fine job of telling us you were successfully gas-lit these past four years, buddy. It was so 'spontaneous' they had the materials to build a gallows. Do you think the gallows was erected while the riot was going on? Or are you confused about what we're talking about? Because I'm talking about when people stormed into the Capitol. That wasn't organized; that was a clusterfuck.
Gaslit as all hell. The entire thing was one event - advertised by Trump himself. Just stop. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Nov 19, 2024 22:50:03 GMT
People came organized for a protest and a rally. What happened after that was more spontaneous, which seemed pretty obvious watching it. Hundreds of people didn't bring zip ties or bear spray. And very, very few people have been charged with sedition.
And if we're just going to start changing the definition of things, then I guess we can call whatever we want violence. Personally, I'll stick to the actual definition.
You're doing a fine job of telling us you were successfully gas-lit these past four years, buddy. It was so 'spontaneous' they had the materials to build a gallows. A non functional “gallows” that couldn’t hang a midget. Three pieces of 2x4 slapped crookedly together. Were you in the carpentry trades? How many people do you think needed to be in on this grand conspiracy to bring all of those elaborate “materials”? Thousands of people ordered to murder congress and this is what they were going to use. Omglololololol. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 19, 2024 22:51:47 GMT
You're doing a fine job of telling us you were successfully gas-lit these past four years, buddy. It was so 'spontaneous' they had the materials to build a gallows. Do you think the gallows was erected while the riot was going on? Or are you confused about what we're talking about? Because I'm talking about when people stormed into the Capitol. That wasn't organized; that was a clusterfuck.
I've gone over that one with Fiddlesticks the deliberately Obtuse in the past.
It "appeared" as if by magic before the rally. Somehow, millions of cameras everywhere capturing every event of the day ... but nobody has any clue who put it there. Despite being able to pinpoint identify the number of moles on a trespasser's ass.
Newly obtained video shows movement of group suspected of constructing Jan. 6 gallows hours before Capitol siege
The people who erected the infamous gallows and noose on the west front of the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, began their work in the predawn hours that day, according to newly released videos obtained by CBS News. A report by a GOP-led U.S. House subcommittee said the perpetrators remain unaccounted for by prosecutors.
Surveillance footage shared with CBS News shows the brazenness of the work behind the gallows and noose, which have a history of racist and threatening overtones. On Jan. 6, then-Vice President Mike Pence was presiding over the joint session of Congress to certify the Electoral College count and had been pressured by former President Donald Trump to unilaterally overturn the 2020 election. He refused to do so, while outside the Capitol, protesters and rioters around the gallows and noose chanted, "Hang Mike Pence."
The videos illustrate how a crew of people rolled pieces down major streets in plain sight, in the predawn hours before the Capitol siege.
***
The subcommittee's report on the gallows incident provided a granular timeline of the group suspected of building the gallows during the morning of Jan. 6. The report said, "During this time, the apparent group leader along with one other person, left the group and walked down 3rd Street, heading north. They returned a few minutes later with coffee, and the entire group left the scene. Despite the leader's distinctive clothing — he was wearing a long trench coat, long white scarf, fedora-type hat, and walking with a cane — he has never been identified publicly."
The subcommittee's report also said, "At approximately 1:00 p.m., the group of five returned to the scene and the presumed leader, now wearing a baseball cap, installed the final crossbeam and added the noose made of bright orange rope. Shortly after construction was complete, all five men left the grounds."
Anyone know where Keyser Soze was that day? Fedora, trench coat, long white scarf and a cane lol
None of them were involved with the riot that was going on at 1:00pm. Weird.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Nov 19, 2024 22:51:54 GMT
Do you think the gallows was erected while the riot was going on? Or are you confused about what we're talking about? Because I'm talking about when people stormed into the Capitol. That wasn't organized; that was a clusterfuck.
Gaslit as all hell. The entire thing was one event - advertised by Trump himself. Just stop. Please keep telling demos that he’s gaslit, while you fear the January 6th gallows as part of an elaborate plot to murder government officials. Those gallows couldn’t be used to hang small game. It’s just so good. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Nov 19, 2024 22:53:29 GMT
Do you think the gallows was erected while the riot was going on? Or are you confused about what we're talking about? Because I'm talking about when people stormed into the Capitol. That wasn't organized; that was a clusterfuck.
I've gone over that one with Fiddlesticks the deliberately Obtuse in the past.
It "appeared" as if by magic before the rally. Somehow, millions of cameras everywhere capturing every event of the day ... but nobody has any clue who put it there. Despite being able to pinpoint identify the number of moles on a trespasser's ass.
Newly obtained video shows movement of group suspected of constructing Jan. 6 gallows hours before Capitol siege
The people who erected the infamous gallows and noose on the west front of the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, began their work in the predawn hours that day, according to newly released videos obtained by CBS News. A report by a GOP-led U.S. House subcommittee said the perpetrators remain unaccounted for by prosecutors.
Surveillance footage shared with CBS News shows the brazenness of the work behind the gallows and noose, which have a history of racist and threatening overtones. On Jan. 6, then-Vice President Mike Pence was presiding over the joint session of Congress to certify the Electoral College count and had been pressured by former President Donald Trump to unilaterally overturn the 2020 election. He refused to do so, while outside the Capitol, protesters and rioters around the gallows and noose chanted, "Hang Mike Pence."
The videos illustrate how a crew of people rolled pieces down major streets in plain sight, in the predawn hours before the Capitol siege.
Queshank
LOLZ! In other words, erecting the gallows was planned. So. Fucking. Dumb. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 19, 2024 22:55:45 GMT
I've gone over that one with Fiddlesticks the deliberately Obtuse in the past.
It "appeared" as if by magic before the rally. Somehow, millions of cameras everywhere capturing every event of the day ... but nobody has any clue who put it there. Despite being able to pinpoint identify the number of moles on a trespasser's ass.
Newly obtained video shows movement of group suspected of constructing Jan. 6 gallows hours before Capitol siege
The people who erected the infamous gallows and noose on the west front of the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, began their work in the predawn hours that day, according to newly released videos obtained by CBS News. A report by a GOP-led U.S. House subcommittee said the perpetrators remain unaccounted for by prosecutors.
Surveillance footage shared with CBS News shows the brazenness of the work behind the gallows and noose, which have a history of racist and threatening overtones. On Jan. 6, then-Vice President Mike Pence was presiding over the joint session of Congress to certify the Electoral College count and had been pressured by former President Donald Trump to unilaterally overturn the 2020 election. He refused to do so, while outside the Capitol, protesters and rioters around the gallows and noose chanted, "Hang Mike Pence."
The videos illustrate how a crew of people rolled pieces down major streets in plain sight, in the predawn hours before the Capitol siege.
Queshank
LOLZ! In other words, erecting the gallows was planned. So. Fucking. Dumb.
There's some dumb on display here, but I think you should take another look
Queshank
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thor
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Post by thor on Nov 19, 2024 23:02:31 GMT
Gaslit as all hell. The entire thing was one event - advertised by Trump himself. Just stop. Please keep telling demos that he’s gaslit, while you fear the January 6th gallows as part of an elaborate plot to murder government officials. Those gallows couldn’t be used to hang small game. It’s just so good. LOLZ! OK. Construct a like device, have someone bind you up, stick your neck in the noose, and let you hang there. For experimental purposes. Surely there is no danger. Right? Put your money where your mouth is, Fobbit.  The people of the United States want their money back, dummy. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Nov 19, 2024 23:04:21 GMT
LOLZ! In other words, erecting the gallows was planned. So. Fucking. Dumb.
There's some dumb on display here, but I think you should take another look
Queshank
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Post by stugatze on Nov 19, 2024 23:06:37 GMT
The core concern for anti-Trumpers is NOT about policy, but about Fascism. It is about too much control in a single person, the president, with limited to no checks and balances with the other branches of government. It is about corruption, and the erosion of our Democracy. Fascism is not a switch that suddenly gets flipped. That's not how it started in Nazi Germany. It happened in stages, starting with the demonization of the free media, the view of immigrants and minorities as the enemy, the erosion of the justice system, the deconstruction of government institutions. And all with the promise of prosperity, and the celebration of 'purity' of the German national. What I see is the exact same groundwork being laid here. And so the next step of Fascism to be watched for are the promises of prosperity not being met, but the blame going to those same groups being demonized. The view that if 'the Dems' didn't get in the way, all the prosperity would have happened. And we already see this with stu, for instance, demonizing all the Dems, repeating the propaganda that blames all problems on them. Now maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe all the prosperity he promised, he is able to deliver, but most professionals in economics think he's about to screw us all over. And my question is, will you far righties continue buying into his BS and blame everyone BUT him? Freon _______________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Young Leftist, .. the modern demoncrap liberal socialist party by and large have PROVED over decades that THEIR democrat party is FAR FAR more FASCIST than the republican party has ever been!
Of course, .. YOU, like so many other demoncrap party little libbie pwogwessives,  REFUSE to believe it, but, that is only because, .. you were SUCCESSFULLY Quislified  years and years earlier, and have no clue!  |
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