Putin praises ‘courageous’ Trump as he congratulates new ...

There's no cynicism in accurately reading reality.

"criminal" invasion.  GTFOH.  lol.  "Criminal" invasion. 

Putin's a penis head.  Great.  We agree.  He wants those oil resources for himself and is using the military to get them.

What are the people on the other side that want those oil resources for themselves and are using the military to get them?

This started in 2014 limey.  With the Ukrainian oligarchy laying siege to Eastern Ukraine because of those same oil resources.  Stop being so vulnerable to propaganda.

Queshank

Yeah.  You haven't been influenced by propaganda on this subject at all.

We're totally in the narcissistic position of "rewarding" Putin.

And then after we "reward" them ... Russia's totally gonna take the whole country because their army is the strongest in the world.  We've seen that right?   And then they're totally gonna march on the rest of the world because have you seen how strong and mighty and scary their army is the past couple years?  HAVE YOU???

You also know the fighting has been ongoing since 2014 right?  10 years of war now over a scrap of land whose only value is the oil underneath it.  That it started with the Ukrainian army shelling Eastern Ukraine separatists and rewarding contracts to Western companies like BP and Shell to exploit the newly discovered oil?  (If you wonder at England's full throated support for "grinding" down Russia's military using the bones of Ukrainians ... look no further than BP and Shell both being British companies.)

After 10 years of that kind of war, it's obvious that as soon as the United States in their arrogance "rewards" Putin ... he's gonna march on Europe.  It's obvious.  If you can't see it you've bought into Russian propaganda. 

"Rewards" gtfoh.  That's neocon bullshittery.  You really bought into the Cheneys being Democrats eh?

Queshank

Has it?

Can you point to examples just in Russia's own post Soviet Union history to bolster that?

Maybe point to some examples in the US's history?

Hey for that matter ... can you just provide some examples in any history?

We talking about Genghis Khan here or something?

"Give" ... you still seem to think we own the world. 

Queshank

I.e., non-engagement in Europe.

That's pretty much what everyone means when they say it, because they have Eurocentric view.

But that's not what isolationism is.

Why aren't you fearmongering about Israel taking over  <insert country/region/world here>?

Probably for the same reasons.

For the record I've deliberately not weighed in on Israel/Palestine because as opposed to the Russo Ukrainian war that started in 2014 ... Israel/Palestine is fucking complicated as fuck.  Russia/Ukraine is not.  I've done a lot of research on Israel over my years here (hat tip Moishe3d) ... and it's tough to see who the bad guys are.  And here on the boards?  We don't have conversations like that anymore.  Not since Trump drove a certain section of the boards fucking insane.  And I don't need to do a lot of research on Ukraine.  I've got pictures of the people of Ukraine in my family photo albums and there's books in my local library I read as a kid fascinated by the stories.  (like this one: library.ndsu.edu/grhc/research-history/history-germans-russia).  And have been watching the current chapter play out for 35 years through places like these very boards and threads like demos makes.

But I'll point out one observation I started making a long time ago.  When you read the histories of Israel and the formation of the country ... and realize that nearly every single significant power player in the first decades of Israel's existence literally escaped the holocaust and it's the reason they're alive ... you start to understand why Israel ignores the rest of the world's opinion on how they defend themselves. 

Here's an interesting circle to square ... Golda Meir, one of Israel's most famous prime ministers .. prime minister during the Yom Kippur war that started the Gaza mess and unsettled Israel's security generationally ...  was born in Kyiv, Russia.  What a small world.  Is it relevant that Kyiv was called Russia when she was born 20 years before the existence of the Soviet Union?  It is even if it's a side point.  The relevance being that there are a loooot of data points at play in Ukraine.  (see above for more)

For me tho, the primary difference is how and why the two wars started.  

One started after decades of Israel restraining themselves at the behest of the world and trying to be good guys and the problem festering for generations until ... with a surprising amount of support from Western nations, an attack that rivals 9/11 on a level you and I can't even fully digest.  A country the size and population of New Jersey lost 10x the proportional population as we did on 9/11.  There was nobody unaffected.  Do I think they're thinking straight?  Nope.  Here's one thing I think tho.  Netanyahu and the people of Israel are gonna listen to Trump more than they were going to listen to any Democrats. 

The other started after decades of outside funding of opposition parties and rabble rousers by Western countries destabilized the country, after 8 years of war had already resulted in tens of thousands dead and a stalemate, after 40 years of warnings and predictions about shit like this happening the more we continue to taunt the losers of the Cold War.  And after a couple years of the new president of Ukraine literally taunting and insulting the loser of the Cold War.  "I got a new man now fuck you bitch" sums up Zelensky's actions and speeches in the months before the invasion.  Including him threatening ... at a NATO conference in 2021 as I've shared on the boards before ... to renuclearize Ukraine.  Is there a Soviet Era Russia owned pipeline sending natural gas and oil through Palestine or Israel like there is in Ukraine to feed Western countries' energy needs?  Asking for a friend. 

There's no comparison between these two issues Mojo. 

Tell me now.  After 2 1/2 years of war.  You see a path to victory for Ukraine yet that doesn't involve western boots on the ground?  How much of your lingering slava Ukraine is just because you don't want to accept that you were wrong?  "Throwing good money after bad" doesn't seem to cover it when we're actually talking about throwing bodies at bullets.

I get that none of that justifies our arms deals with Israel.  Merely explains why Israel doesn't give a flying fuck about our justifications.  I'm just trying to highlight that there's no clear comparison and in fact, the comparison being made (not by you by pundits I've seen like the fucking disgusting Mehdi Hasan I love to troll on twitter) isn't being made in good faith.

So I lean on the most important points when the bullshit and propaganda gets to flying.  Cuz it's all we really can do..

Israel is an ally of ours.  Has been for decades.  We have multiple bilateral defense cooperation agreements with them.

Ukraine is a "let's open more markets for Western businesses" project of arrogant and ignorant fucks in our state department and intelligence services who think they're smarter than the people who created the post ww2 order and who never face any consequences for the damage they do around the world.

Hey.  It's not really that hard after all.

Queshank