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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 3:40:57 GMT
Point of order.
This is where the Hate America First crowd always gets thing wrong.
Reality didn't offer everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities. Politicians didn't give women "those rights" I've heard a lot o women bemoan being saddled with. (Yay working 50 hours a week on an assembly line! Who wouldn't want that!??)
Technological advancements did. The invention of the washing machine, the microwave .. birth control ... did. And 100 years ago when the economy ran on backbone and muscle and not much else, one could argue it took away men's rights by forcing them to labor to provide for others.
And the fact remains ... FACT ... that nowhere in the world ... NOWHERE ... are those "everyone" you're focusing on better served than by America through all of that time period and up to today.
Queshank
Que, why do you trash your own wonderful post with the seemingly requisite mention of something like Hate America First? My point is not that America did not offer remarkable, often attainable, opportunity. My point was much the same as what is so often yours. There are too often doors which only open to the select few. There are laws and loopholes only available to the select few. There is too often an invisible thumb on the scale. It's not about excluding anybody. It's about letting people who have been on the outside know that they are welcome on the inside. No?
When you're the only faction in America telling them they're not welcome, your argument kinda falls flat.
How much damage do you think the Democratic party has done telling so many minorities that it's hopeless and leading them to the conclusion that they shouldn't even bother trying cuz the "system" is against them?
You know why it's called a glass ceiling bama? Because it's fucking glass. It's the easiest thing in the world to break. Literally all you have to do is push on it. The least amount of effort one can apply.
Queshank
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 3:45:02 GMT
First, and by your own admission, the list is definitively inclusive in that it declaratively includes one of your children. More importantly, the child with their own special category deserves that inclusion as much as any other person on this planet. Historically, America has not offered everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities. I am going to guess that your child who did not get special mention might already belong to a group which claims those rights as privilege. If I am wrong about that, then I am wrong. I'm not even comfortable bringing people's families into these discussions, but can you not see why disadvantaged groups who strive for the same rights and status that you and I hold might not gravitate toward those who want them? Men are human beings too. As is my son. And we have issues that arise from us being men. There are physical health issue that only men deal with. There are mental health issues that affect men more than women. There are legal issues that affect men differently (and perhaps unjustly) compared to women, such as in family courts and such. We deserve to be served by our elected officials as much as anyone else. We deserve to have our maleness recognized as much as women do their femaleness. I'm sorry, but the DNC made a conscious decision to exclude us in their schoolgirl list of who is "in" and who is "out." I reject Trumpism, but I'm not running into the arms of the party that rejects me either. Trumpists pushed me out of the GOP and my son and I don't check off any boxes the Democrats care about. So they have rejected me as well. I vote back and forth between the two main parties (and others), but I feel no connection to either. The Democrats are hemorrhaging the male vote. Half of the country. And they'll keep doing it out of sheer stubborn attachment to identity politics. And because of that, we get Trump. Great job, DNC. Let me be the first to welcome you into the privileged class of American males. I didn't know that y'all felt excluded from a fair shot at the American dream, or I would have said something to you about this long ago. Relax. You're included. |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 3:46:57 GMT
Que, why do you trash your own wonderful post with the seemingly requisite mention of something like Hate America First? My point is not that America did not offer remarkable, often attainable, opportunity. My point was much the same as what is so often yours. There are too often doors which only open to the select few. There are laws and loopholes only available to the select few. There is too often an invisible thumb on the scale. It's not about excluding anybody. It's about letting people who have been on the outside know that they are welcome on the inside. No?
When you're the only faction in America telling them they're not welcome, your argument kinda falls flat.
How much damage do you think the Democratic party has done telling so many minorities that it's hopeless and leading them to the conclusion that they shouldn't even bother trying cuz the "system" is against them?
You know why it's called a glass ceiling bama? Because it's fucking glass. It's the easiest thing in the world to break. Literally all you have to do is push on it. The least amount of effort one can apply.
Queshank
You're blaming Democrats more than Republicans for poverty and income inequality? |
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 3:48:02 GMT
It's not about excluding anybody. See, if that were true, they wouldn't exclude anybody. First, they shouldn't have this list. But if they insist on doing it, why can't they have a "men" section that deals with the unique issues that men deal with? Like a suicide rate 4X higher than women's? Like a declining enrollment in higher education? Like a million other issues? You cannot give a good reason for that. Because there isn't one. Defend it all you like while men run to the Trumpist party that at least acknowledges their existence without needing to know what color their skin is, who their sexual partners are or where they live. |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 3:55:01 GMT
It's not about excluding anybody. See, if that were true, they wouldn't exclude anybody. First, they shouldn't have this list. But if they insist on doing it, why can't they have a "men" section that deals with the unique issues that men deal with? Like a suicide rate 4X higher than women's? Like a declining enrollment in higher education? Like a million other issues? You cannot give a good reason for that. Because there isn't one. Defend it all you like while men run to the Trumpist party that at least acknowledges their existence without needing to know what color their skin is, who their sexual partners are or where they live. Wow. You really do feel a sense of privilege. As do I, being an American male. Good for you. |
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 3:56:06 GMT
Men are human beings too. As is my son. And we have issues that arise from us being men. There are physical health issue that only men deal with. There are mental health issues that affect men more than women. There are legal issues that affect men differently (and perhaps unjustly) compared to women, such as in family courts and such. We deserve to be served by our elected officials as much as anyone else. We deserve to have our maleness recognized as much as women do their femaleness. I'm sorry, but the DNC made a conscious decision to exclude us in their schoolgirl list of who is "in" and who is "out." I reject Trumpism, but I'm not running into the arms of the party that rejects me either. Trumpists pushed me out of the GOP and my son and I don't check off any boxes the Democrats care about. So they have rejected me as well. I vote back and forth between the two main parties (and others), but I feel no connection to either. The Democrats are hemorrhaging the male vote. Half of the country. And they'll keep doing it out of sheer stubborn attachment to identity politics. And because of that, we get Trump. Great job, DNC. Let me be the first to welcome you into the privileged class of American males. I didn't know that y'all felt excluded from a fair shot at the American dream, or I would have said something to you about this long ago. Relax. You're included. Hey, do what you want. Support the party you want. But I'm telling you this is a mistake. If the Democratic party would make an genuine effort to reach out to men on the issues men care about you'd blow Trump back to the stone age. I mean it. Men are dying to hear someone speak to what they care about. So much so that their flocking to anyone who seems to understand them, even Donald Trump. But if your argument here is any indication, your party will keep on keeping on. Seriously, you're objecting to even including men on a list of people the Democrats are willing to serve. Think about that. Think about what you're saying. It's unbelievable. Your reaction is to mock me for being privileged. Too privileged to acknowledge. It's stunning. |
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 3:58:45 GMT
See, if that were true, they wouldn't exclude anybody. First, they shouldn't have this list. But if they insist on doing it, why can't they have a "men" section that deals with the unique issues that men deal with? Like a suicide rate 4X higher than women's? Like a declining enrollment in higher education? Like a million other issues? You cannot give a good reason for that. Because there isn't one. Defend it all you like while men run to the Trumpist party that at least acknowledges their existence without needing to know what color their skin is, who their sexual partners are or where they live. Wow. You really do feel a sense of privilege. As do I, being an American male. Good for you. Keep on, keeping on, man. I'm heading to bed. Maybe your party will wake up. Maybe. I actually hope so. I'd love for both parties to be strong advocates for everyone. But your party will have to be willing to change and admit error to do it. And I'm not sure they have it in them. |
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 3:59:32 GMT
When you're the only faction in America telling them they're not welcome, your argument kinda falls flat.
How much damage do you think the Democratic party has done telling so many minorities that it's hopeless and leading them to the conclusion that they shouldn't even bother trying cuz the "system" is against them?
You know why it's called a glass ceiling bama? Because it's fucking glass. It's the easiest thing in the world to break. Literally all you have to do is push on it. The least amount of effort one can apply.
Queshank
You're blaming Democrats more than Republicans for poverty and income inequality?
Ahahahahahaha.
da fuq?
I'm not blaming anybody for the natural state of humanity for the past 10,000 years. Certainly not modern American political parties.
But let's talk NAFTA and Bill Clinton pushing that shit through over the protests from leftists like me. Let's talk about the impact it's had on those poor as it disenfranchised millions of Mexican subsistence workers, directly led to the rise of the cartels and opened the floodgates of illegal immigration lowering the price of unskilled labor in our country the past 25 years.
Let's talk some more about the Democrats being the party of the wealthy. Let's talk about the wealthy being served by companies like Goldman Sachs (Hat tip TL) ... experts agitating for their client base and encouraging them to invest half of their portfolios overseas for greater ROIs.
You fucking right I am.
Queshank
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bama beau
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Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 4:05:20 GMT
Let me be the first to welcome you into the privileged class of American males. I didn't know that y'all felt excluded from a fair shot at the American dream, or I would have said something to you about this long ago. Relax. You're included. Hey, do what you want. Support the party you want. But I'm telling you this is a mistake. If the Democratic party would make an genuine effort to reach out to men on the issues men care about you'd blow Trump back to the stone age. I mean it. Men are dying to hear someone speak to what they care about. So much so that their flocking to anyone who seems to understand them, even Donald Trump. But if your argument here is any indication, your party will keep on keeping on. Seriously, you're objecting to even including men on a list of people the Democrats are willing to serve. Think about that. Think about what you're saying. It's unbelievable. Your reaction is to mock me for being privileged. Too privileged to acknowledge. It's stunning. It's because you continue to mischaracterize. I'm not a Democrat. I'm just a person who can't vote for scum like trumP. I never wanted Biden for anything other than a Senator from another state. Harris wasn't in my 2020 top tier. HRC was my Senator, and I wasn't proud of that. But I voted for each of them because of trumP's absolute lack of qualifications, acuity or character. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,582
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 4:06:40 GMT
You're blaming Democrats more than Republicans for poverty and income inequality?
Ahahahahahaha.
da fuq?
I'm not blaming anybody for the natural state of humanity for the past 10,000 years. Certainly not modern American political parties.
But let's talk NAFTA and Bill Clinton pushing that shit through over the protests from leftists like me. Let's talk about the impact it's had on those poor as it disenfranchised millions of Mexican subsistence workers, directly led to the rise of the cartels and opened the floodgates of illegal immigration lowering the price of unskilled labor in our country the past 25 years.
Let's talk some more about the Democrats being the party of the wealthy. Let's talk about the wealthy being served by companies like Goldman Sachs (Hat tip TL) ... experts agitating for their client base and encouraging them to invest half of their portfolios overseas for greater ROIs.
You fucking right I am.
Queshank
You were supposed to be in bed. |
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Post by HolyMoly on Nov 9, 2024 4:13:14 GMT
Dems, show some goober love, please.  |
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 4:14:33 GMT
Hey, do what you want. Support the party you want. But I'm telling you this is a mistake. If the Democratic party would make an genuine effort to reach out to men on the issues men care about you'd blow Trump back to the stone age. I mean it. Men are dying to hear someone speak to what they care about. So much so that their flocking to anyone who seems to understand them, even Donald Trump. But if your argument here is any indication, your party will keep on keeping on. Seriously, you're objecting to even including men on a list of people the Democrats are willing to serve. Think about that. Think about what you're saying. It's unbelievable. Your reaction is to mock me for being privileged. Too privileged to acknowledge. It's stunning. It's because you continue to mischaracterize. I'm not a Democrat. I'm just a person who can't vote for scum like trumP. I never wanted Biden for anything other than a Senator from another state. Harris wasn't in my 2020 top tier. HRC was my Senator, and I wasn't proud of that. But I voted for each of them because of trumP's absolute lack of qualifications, acuity or character. Your reaction to this is because I thought you were a Democrat? Ok, I acknowledge you aren't a Democrat. And I apologize. Sincerely. I've been accused of being a Trumpist and a Democrat on here many times. I don't want to make the same mistake. Now that's no longer an issue. So do you think the that leaving off "men" (and the issues men tend to focus on more than women) from their list is a mistake? Do you think the Democrats should reach out to men as much as they do women, or not? Do you think it would help Democrats do better if men felt more acknowledged by the party? Or do you think telling men, "You're privileged already, so we're not going to do any of that," is the better way to go? I know I said I was going to bed, but I messaged someone first and got the notification that there was a reply while doing that, so I really am going to bed now. |
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bama beau
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Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 4:45:43 GMT
It's because you continue to mischaracterize. I'm not a Democrat. I'm just a person who can't vote for scum like trumP. I never wanted Biden for anything other than a Senator from another state. Harris wasn't in my 2020 top tier. HRC was my Senator, and I wasn't proud of that. But I voted for each of them because of trumP's absolute lack of qualifications, acuity or character. Your reaction to this is because I thought you were a Democrat? Ok, I acknowledge you aren't a Democrat. And I apologize. Sincerely. I've been accused of being a Trumpist and a Democrat on here many times. I don't want to make the same mistake. Now that's no longer an issue. So do you think the that leaving off "men" (and the issues men tend to focus on more than women) from their list is a mistake? Do you think the Democrats should reach out to men as much as they do women, or not? Do you think it would help Democrats do better if men felt more acknowledged by the party? Or do you think telling men, "You're privileged already, so we're not going to do any of that," is the better way to go? I know I said I was going to bed, but I messaged someone first and got the notification that there was a reply while doing that, so I really am going to bed now. If I had been the one making the decision, I'd have made a category for males, dads and fathers. Also a category for pet owners. And people who've survived tick borne diseases. But I digress. |
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 6:46:37 GMT
Your reaction to this is because I thought you were a Democrat? Ok, I acknowledge you aren't a Democrat. And I apologize. Sincerely. I've been accused of being a Trumpist and a Democrat on here many times. I don't want to make the same mistake. Now that's no longer an issue. So do you think the that leaving off "men" (and the issues men tend to focus on more than women) from their list is a mistake? Do you think the Democrats should reach out to men as much as they do women, or not? Do you think it would help Democrats do better if men felt more acknowledged by the party? Or do you think telling men, "You're privileged already, so we're not going to do any of that," is the better way to go? I know I said I was going to bed, but I messaged someone first and got the notification that there was a reply while doing that, so I really am going to bed now. If I had been the one making the decision, I'd have made a category for males, dads and fathers. Also a category for pet owners. And people who've survived tick borne diseases. But I digress.
Why the reluctance to just say "Americans?"
Why let a carnival barking ass clown win on "Americans?"
Is it because the rhetoric on the left got so out of control it's no longer something that can be said without alienating several of the silos the Democrats deliberately separated people into? (Yes.)
Queshank
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bama beau
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Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,582
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 7:51:24 GMT
If I had been the one making the decision, I'd have made a category for males, dads and fathers. Also a category for pet owners. And people who've survived tick borne diseases. But I digress.
Why the reluctance to just say "Americans?"
Why let a carnival barking ass clown win on "Americans?"
Is it because the rhetoric on the left got so out of control it's no longer something that can be said without alienating several of the silos the Democrats deliberately separated people into? (Yes.)
Queshank
What reluctance? I refer to America and our values as much as any other person here. Maybe too much. Agreed, trumP is a carnival barking ass clown. Lastly, nobody I know lives in a silo, Democrat or not. A silo is a low tech term used by mass media to divide. Less frequently, a vertical structure to store farm silage. Either way, silos are a thing of the past. |
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 9, 2024 8:38:41 GMT
Donald Trump is a disaster.
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Post by Lomelis on Nov 9, 2024 9:37:46 GMT
Why the reluctance to just say "Americans?"
Why let a carnival barking ass clown win on "Americans?"
Is it because the rhetoric on the left got so out of control it's no longer something that can be said without alienating several of the silos the Democrats deliberately separated people into? (Yes.)
Queshank
What reluctance? I refer to America and our values as much as any other person here. Maybe too much. Agreed, trumP is a carnival barking ass clown. Lastly, nobody I know lives in a silo, Democrat or not. A silo is a low tech term used by mass media to divide. Less frequently, a vertical structure to store farm silage. Either way, silos are a thing of the past. Lol. You support candidates, an ideology, that actively excludes a massive percentage of Americans. Not just ecludes, but hates them. A lot of self reflection is needed but that starts with self awareness, which unfortunately ya'll lack. |
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 13:51:19 GMT
Your reaction to this is because I thought you were a Democrat? Ok, I acknowledge you aren't a Democrat. And I apologize. Sincerely. I've been accused of being a Trumpist and a Democrat on here many times. I don't want to make the same mistake. Now that's no longer an issue. So do you think the that leaving off "men" (and the issues men tend to focus on more than women) from their list is a mistake? Do you think the Democrats should reach out to men as much as they do women, or not? Do you think it would help Democrats do better if men felt more acknowledged by the party? Or do you think telling men, "You're privileged already, so we're not going to do any of that," is the better way to go? I know I said I was going to bed, but I messaged someone first and got the notification that there was a reply while doing that, so I really am going to bed now. If I had been the one making the decision, I'd have made a category for males, dads and fathers. Also a category for pet owners. And people who've survived tick borne diseases. But I digress.This is a very telling response, and not in a good way. It is a non-agreement agreement, allowing you to comfortably distance yourself from the ramifications (whatever they may be in your mind) of agreeing with my position. And it's probably an instinctive, subconscious response. You understand what I am saying. You know that I am right. There is no defensible reason to leave men off the list. But even in admitting this, you are compelled to turn your admission into a joke. You cannot just straight up agree. That is not acceptable for some reason. "Ok, so Maestro is right and I agree, but I must soothe my political compatriots (or perhaps my own cognitive dissonance) by indicating that I don't actually take this seriously. So I'll agree while winking at the left with a joke about pet owners and tick borne diseases, comfortably laughing off the idea that anything should actually be done to include or reach out to men."
Do you see what I am saying? What if you just agreed that if women are included as women (without being lumped into another subgroup), then men should be included as men, not as part of some other subgroup? It's a reasonable position and you should be able to agree with it without caveats or a joke to soften the blow. |
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 16:20:52 GMT
Why the reluctance to just say "Americans?"
Why let a carnival barking ass clown win on "Americans?"
Is it because the rhetoric on the left got so out of control it's no longer something that can be said without alienating several of the silos the Democrats deliberately separated people into? (Yes.)
Queshank
What reluctance? I refer to America and our values as much as any other person here. Maybe too much. Agreed, trumP is a carnival barking ass clown. Lastly, nobody I know lives in a silo, Democrat or not. A silo is a low tech term used by mass media to divide. Less frequently, a vertical structure to store farm silage. Either way, silos are a thing of the past.
Instead of just saying like I did ... "Why didn't they just say they stand with Americans" ... you had to throw some more spaghetti noodles at the wall to see if they'll stick. That's a reluctance to just embrace the obvious.
Every Democrat I know has retreated into their silo.
What exactly do you think they're doing when they "unfriend" their Trump supporting friends and reinforce the walls of their bubble like they've been doing the past 8 years? Or like HolyMoly said in another thread this morning: They already know what their opponents think (roflmao) ... so why would they want to listen to them?
Queshank
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