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Post by Maestro on Nov 8, 2024 16:53:03 GMT
This list from demoracts.org is interesting to me. First, it really should be "Whom," but that's just my inner pedant. If you're going to make a list like this, you have to have a criteria for which groups get singled out and which groups get lumped in together or ignored completely. And that criteria will either be spoken or unspoken. And I just wonder what that criteria is, whether or not it was spoken and whether or not anyone feels that a public list like this might explain some of the voting demographics this time around.
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petep
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Post by petep on Nov 8, 2024 17:16:57 GMT
This list from demoracts.org is interesting to me. First, it really should be "Whom," but that's just my inner pedant. If you're going to make a list like this, you have to have a criteria for which groups get singled out and which groups get lumped in together or ignored completely. And that criteria will either be spoken or unspoken. And I just wonder what that criteria is, whether or not was was spoken and whether or not anyone feels that a public list like this might explain some of the voting demographics this time around. Interesting. They have a section on rural America. I’m wondering if these are the morons that cling to god and guns. Or are they the enemy questioning vaccine efficacy. Lots of neat words here. But…. Actions matter more than words. democrats.org/who-we-are/who-we-serve/rural-americans/ |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 8, 2024 18:18:57 GMT
This list from demoracts.org is interesting to me. First, it really should be "Whom," but that's just my inner pedant. If you're going to make a list like this, you have to have a criteria for which groups get singled out and which groups get lumped in together or ignored completely. And that criteria will either be spoken or unspoken. And I just wonder what that criteria is, whether or not was was spoken and whether or not anyone feels that a public list like this might explain some of the voting demographics this time around.
You know they're lying when they overcomplicate it to distract.
I mean they could just say "Americans." But instead they have to split em up and divide em and separately categorize them.
And it says everything about the strategies they've been using to gain power.
Queshank
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 1:22:31 GMT
This list from demoracts.org is interesting to me. First, it really should be "Whom," but that's just my inner pedant. If you're going to make a list like this, you have to have a criteria for which groups get singled out and which groups get lumped in together or ignored completely. And that criteria will either be spoken or unspoken. And I just wonder what that criteria is, whether or not was was spoken and whether or not anyone feels that a public list like this might explain some of the voting demographics this time around.
You know they're lying when they overcomplicate it to distract.
I mean they could just say "Americans." But instead they have to split em up and divide em and separately categorize them.
And it says everything about the strategies they've been using to gain power.
Queshank
No doubt. It's telling that they think posting a list like this does more good than harm. I should point out that his list came to my attention from a (supposedly) male Harris voter who was heavily critical of it. |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 1:36:06 GMT
What's the harm in inclusion? Many of those groups
have been scapegoated, marginalized, trivialized,
denied equality or opportunity or worse. Just listen
to trumP's own divisive rhetoric. People are still
trying to realize their American dream against the
backdrop of our nation's racist and intolerant past.
Kudos to anybody who seeks to include rather than not.
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 1:54:14 GMT
What's the harm in inclusion? Many of those groups have been scapegoated, marginalized, trivialized, denied equality or opportunity or worse. Just listen to trumP's own divisive rhetoric. People are still trying to realize their American dream against the backdrop of our nation's racist and intolerant past. Kudos to anybody who seeks to include rather than not.
Inclusion is calling them Americans.
Like Trump's been doing the past 8 years.
Queshank
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 2:12:27 GMT
What's the harm in inclusion? Many of those groups have been scapegoated, marginalized, trivialized, denied equality or opportunity or worse. Just listen to trumP's own divisive rhetoric. People are still trying to realize their American dream against the backdrop of our nation's racist and intolerant past. Kudos to anybody who seeks to include rather than not.
Inclusion is calling them Americans.
Like Trump's been doing the past 8 years.
Queshank
trumP has been dividing us to gain power since 2015, you and I being prime examples. You've said it yourself. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 2:17:54 GMT
Inclusion is calling them Americans.
Like Trump's been doing the past 8 years.
Queshank
trumP has been dividing us to gain power since 2015, you and I being prime examples. You've said it yourself.
Trump didn't divide us tho. Check my sig line.
The media did.
It ain't fascism to call the press the enemy of the people if the press really has become the enemy of the people.
I've been arguing since 2016 that Hillary ran the most divisive campaign attacking and separating Americans I've ever seen. And pointing out that Trump never attacked the American people.
8 years on. Nobody can prove me wrong. And we're still all dealing with the psychological damage the Democratic party did to America from 2016 thru 2020.
Queshank
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 2:25:51 GMT
trumP has been dividing us to gain power since 2015, you and I being prime examples. You've said it yourself.
Trump didn't divide us tho. Check my sig line.
The media did.
It ain't fascism to call the press the enemy of the people if the press really has become the enemy of the people.
I've been arguing since 2016 that Hillary ran the most divisive campaign attacking and separating Americans I've ever seen. And pointing out that Trump never attacked the American people.
8 years on. Nobody can prove me wrong. And we're still all dealing with the psychological damage the Democratic party did to America from 2016 thru 2020.
Queshank
I agree that the corporate media is a pox on us all. I've been saying that at least as long as you have. But trumP didn't attack them for the same reasons I do. Rather, he attacked them for telling the truth about him. EDIT: Love the sig line, although I might have better attributed it to Antisthenes. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 2:26:27 GMT
Trump didn't divide us tho. Check my sig line.
The media did.
It ain't fascism to call the press the enemy of the people if the press really has become the enemy of the people.
I've been arguing since 2016 that Hillary ran the most divisive campaign attacking and separating Americans I've ever seen. And pointing out that Trump never attacked the American people.
8 years on. Nobody can prove me wrong. And we're still all dealing with the psychological damage the Democratic party did to America from 2016 thru 2020.
Queshank
I agree that the corporate media is a pox on us all. I've been saying that at least as long as you have. But trumP didn't attack them for the same reasons I do. Rather, he attacked them for telling the truth about him.
Lookit your circular reasoning.
Hey. What did Trump say about fine people and nazis?
Queshank
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 2:30:05 GMT
I agree that the corporate media is a pox on us all. I've been saying that at least as long as you have. But trumP didn't attack them for the same reasons I do. Rather, he attacked them for telling the truth about him.
Lookit your circular reasoning.
Hey. What did Trump say about fine people and nazis?
Queshank
Something stupid and revealing. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 2:31:31 GMT
Lookit your circular reasoning.
Hey. What did Trump say about fine people and nazis?
Queshank
Something stupid and revealing.
Did he?
I think so too.
"....and I'm not talking about the nazis and the white supremacists because they should be condemned totally"
Is a revealing statement about how the press and even our own former President lied about Trump. And it was indeed incredibly stupid of them to do so considering it was on video.
Queshank
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 2:34:02 GMT
Y'know bama ... that's a great data point for how Trump was always willing to goto bat for the American people no matter how much it hurt him with the intelligentsia. Kinda like how he was defending the American people from that asshat John McCain back when he said he's not a war hero.
Queshank
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 2:47:20 GMT
Y'know bama ... that's a great data point for how Trump was always willing to goto bat for the American people no matter how much it hurt him with the intelligentsia. Kinda like how he was defending the American people from that asshat John McCain back when he said he's not a war hero.
Queshank
That is so close to a great point that I must commend you. If you had said "that's a great data point for how trumP was always willing to self servingly pander no matter how much it hurt him with the intelligentsia.", I might have nominated it for post of the year. trumP is not a beneficent person. He is not concerned about anything other than himself. We both know that's true. As to McCain, he was right to attack him politically, but not to mock his capture. |
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 2:49:29 GMT
What's the harm in inclusion? The criticism is that the list is exclusionary. For example, I have a son and a daughter. One of them gets their own special category on that list, the other does not. One of my children can expect to be served by the DNC simply for existing. The other cannot. That's not inclusive by any definition. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 2:56:28 GMT
Y'know bama ... that's a great data point for how Trump was always willing to goto bat for the American people no matter how much it hurt him with the intelligentsia. Kinda like how he was defending the American people from that asshat John McCain back when he said he's not a war hero.
Queshank
That is so close to a great point that I must commend you. If you had said "that's a great data point for how trumP was always willing to self servingly pander no matter how much it hurt him with the intelligentsia.", I might have nominated it for post of the year. trumP is not a beneficent person. He is not concerned about anything other than himself. We both know that's true. As to McCain, he was right to attack him politically, but not to mock his capture.
Trump hit back at McCain exactly how McCain punched down on his own voters. Personally.
And it doesn't matter if it's self serving pander if it dovetails with defending the people who are being defended.
This is what so many establishment conservatives here on the boards like Fiddler and Freon and TL don't get. It doesn't fucking matter. It's a distinction without a difference.
Queshank
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 3:08:49 GMT
What's the harm in inclusion? The criticism is that the list is exclusionary. For example, I have a son and a daughter. One of them gets their own special category on that list, the other does not. One of my children can expect to be served by the DNC simply for existing. The other cannot. That's not inclusive by any definition. First, and by your own admission, the list is definitively inclusive in that it declaratively includes one of your children. More importantly, the child with their own special category deserves that inclusion as much as any other person on this planet. Historically, America has not offered everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities. I am going to guess that your child who did not get special mention might already belong to a group which claims those rights as privilege. If I am wrong about that, then I am wrong. I'm not even comfortable bringing people's families into these discussions, but can you not see why disadvantaged groups who strive for the same rights and status that you and I hold might not gravitate toward those who want them? |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Nov 9, 2024 3:19:31 GMT
The criticism is that the list is exclusionary. For example, I have a son and a daughter. One of them gets their own special category on that list, the other does not. One of my children can expect to be served by the DNC simply for existing. The other cannot. That's not inclusive by any definition. Historically, America has not offered everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities.
Point of order.
This is where the Hate America First crowd always gets thing wrong.
Reality didn't offer everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities. Politicians didn't give women "those rights" I've heard a lot o women bemoan being saddled with. (Yay working 50 hours a week on an assembly line! Who wouldn't want that!??)
Technological advancements did. The invention of the washing machine, the microwave .. birth control ... did. And 100 years ago when the economy ran on backbone and muscle and not much else, one could argue it took away men's rights by forcing them to labor to provide for others.
And the fact remains ... FACT ... that nowhere in the world ... NOWHERE ... are those "everyone" you're focusing on better served than by America through all of that time period and up to today.
Queshank
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Post by Maestro on Nov 9, 2024 3:27:56 GMT
The criticism is that the list is exclusionary. For example, I have a son and a daughter. One of them gets their own special category on that list, the other does not. One of my children can expect to be served by the DNC simply for existing. The other cannot. That's not inclusive by any definition. First, and by your own admission, the list is definitively inclusive in that it declaratively includes one of your children. More importantly, the child with their own special category deserves that inclusion as much as any other person on this planet. Historically, America has not offered everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities. I am going to guess that your child who did not get special mention might already belong to a group which claims those rights as privilege. If I am wrong about that, then I am wrong. I'm not even comfortable bringing people's families into these discussions, but can you not see why disadvantaged groups who strive for the same rights and status that you and I hold might not gravitate toward those who want them? Men are human beings too. As is my son. And we have issues that arise from us being men. There are physical health issue that only men deal with. There are mental health issues that affect men more than women. There are legal issues that affect men differently (and perhaps unjustly) compared to women, such as in family courts and such. We deserve to be served by our elected officials as much as anyone else. We deserve to have our maleness recognized as much as women do their femaleness. I'm sorry, but the DNC made a conscious decision to exclude us in their schoolgirl list of who is "in" and who is "out." I reject Trumpism, but I'm not running into the arms of the party that rejects me either. Trumpists pushed me out of the GOP and my son and I don't check off any boxes the Democrats care about. So they have rejected me as well. I vote back and forth between the two main parties (and others), but I feel no connection to either. The Democrats are hemorrhaging the male vote. Half of the country. And they'll keep doing it out of sheer stubborn attachment to identity politics. And because of that, we get Trump. Great job, DNC. |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Nov 9, 2024 3:40:06 GMT
Historically, America has not offered everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities.
Point of order.
This is where the Hate America First crowd always gets thing wrong.
Reality didn't offer everyone the same rights, protections or opportunities. Politicians didn't give women "those rights" I've heard a lot o women bemoan being saddled with. (Yay working 50 hours a week on an assembly line! Who wouldn't want that!??)
Technological advancements did. The invention of the washing machine, the microwave .. birth control ... did. And 100 years ago when the economy ran on backbone and muscle and not much else, one could argue it took away men's rights by forcing them to labor to provide for others.
And the fact remains ... FACT ... that nowhere in the world ... NOWHERE ... are those "everyone" you're focusing on better served than by America through all of that time period and up to today.
Queshank
Que, why do you trash your own wonderful post with the seemingly requisite mention of something like Hate America First? My point is not that America did not offer remarkable, often attainable, opportunity. My point was much the same as what is so often yours. There are too often doors which only open to the select few. There are laws and loopholes only available to the select few. There is too often an invisible thumb on the scale. It's not about excluding anybody. It's about letting people who have been on the outside know that they are welcome on the inside. No? |
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