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Post by thecitizen on Oct 30, 2024 15:18:09 GMT
You want us to be where trump want us to be. Everything that Trump wants you want. You want us to be under trump’s authoritarian rule. You have no problem with his comments even though his generals say his comments are fascist. It is obvious where you stand. Where's your evidence of this? It’s obvious |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 30, 2024 15:23:50 GMT
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Post by archie on Oct 30, 2024 15:37:00 GMT
He was talking about the open border Craig. We are getting people from everywhere. Puerto Rico can come here legally anytime they want to. Again the guy literally said the words Puerto Rico. We do have some Puerto Rico criminals here too, just like every other race color and religion that commit crimes. Human beings. Some good, some bad, some fantastic but few and far between. Like me, heh heh heh. |
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Post by greebnurt on Oct 30, 2024 18:31:03 GMT
Put up or shut up.
Where do you think I want us to be? Provide evidence to support your claim.
You want us to be where trump want us to be. Everything that Trump wants you want. You want us to be under trump’s authoritarian rule. You have no problem with his comments even though his generals say his comments are fascist. It is obvious where you stand. What??? |
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thor
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Post by thor on Oct 30, 2024 19:35:44 GMT
It sure helps. It makes you oblivious to reality. He is a comical person. No, I don't expect a geographical metamorphosis. But keep in mind that he now knows what he did wrong in 2020. Do you not remember his widespread and wide ranging efforts to subvert the last election? Why to you take comfort in three years of benign trump ignorance (other than his disastrous covid response) and rationalize that as proof he won't become a dictator? You do know that he's running primarily to stay out of jail, don't you? You do know that he'll go to prison if he loses this election, don't you? Or do you deny that as well? He is running for president to save your ass dum dum. He is running for president to save your ass dum dum. keep his ass out of jail. Figa, your boy is out on bail in three jurisdictions and awaiting sentencing for 34 felonies in one of them. The claim that you are pro 'law and order' is as stupid as you believing Columbus landed at Plymouth Rock. |
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Post by RinsePrius on Oct 30, 2024 19:54:25 GMT
He is running for president to save your ass dum dum. The claim that you are pro 'law and order' is as stupid as you believing Columbus landed at Plymouth Rock. I like that. Well done. |
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Post by runswithscissors on Oct 30, 2024 20:49:43 GMT
No, I don't expect a geographical metamorphosis. But keep in mind that he now knows what he did wrong in 2020. Do you not remember his widespread and wide ranging efforts to subvert the last election? And? You're just throwing stuff out there based on emotional reaction. You're not really making an argument. This would be my evidence that it's more like Turkey, Hungary or Poland.
Benign ignorance? Do y'all actually remember his first term? "Muslin ban" anyone (which John Kelly implemented and defended)? Vetoing FISA reforms? Ending the previous admin's ban on giving military equipment to local law enforcement?
There was no ignorance, and this stuff wasn't benign. And he had an admin that was on board with carrying that stuff out. The only thing they balked at was any hint of foreign policy restraint. We'll see if that happens.
No, everything I noted is fact and happened. He tried to subvert the result of the last election. There is ample evidence of it; some have even pled guilty to aspects of it with regard to GA. Similar efforts were made in half a dozen other states. The only emotional response to all of it is disgust. First that it happened, and second that so far they've all gotten away with it other than the ones who already pled. And we're not talking about Hungary or Poland. Yeah, and I was being kind. trump is more accurately described as having terminal ignorance. The fact that he had a few competent people around him to "accomplish" what you brag of means little. He should have had more competent people around him. Instead he inserted himself into pandemic announcements with absurd nonsense, changed weather maps.....the man will disregard any and all competent or wise advice should he win. Yes, we will. I have no doubt he'll be sentenced. The only issue is if any or all of it will be suspended. Let's wait and see who's right on whether trump is a fascist AND whether he'll go to jail. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 30, 2024 20:54:29 GMT
No, everything I noted is fact and happened. He tried to subvert the result of the last election. There is ample evidence of it; some have even pled guilty to aspects of it with regard to GA. Similar efforts were made in half a dozen other states. The only emotional response to all of it is disgust. First that it happened, and second that so far they've all gotten away with it other than the ones who already pled. And we're not talking about Hungary or Poland. You're missing the point.
Brag of? Dude, are actually reading my posts? I'm not bragging about what he did. I'm pointing things he did that weren't benign and weren't done out of ignorance. They were done deliberately. Like Kelly, who implemented and defended the "Muslim ban"? The people who advised him to veto FISA reforms that would've helped protect 4th Amendment rights? Those competent people?
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Post by runswithscissors on Oct 30, 2024 20:57:13 GMT
He is running for president to save your ass dum dum. He is running for president to save your ass dum dum. keep his ass out of jail. Figa, your boy is out on bail in three jurisdictions and awaiting senctenceing for 34 felonies on one of them. The claim that you are pro 'law and order' is as stupid as you believing Columbus landed at Plymouth Rock. Hilarious. To trump, law means "Lie And Whine." I suspect Plymouth Rock (or one like it) fell on archie's head. |
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Post by runswithscissors on Oct 30, 2024 21:05:56 GMT
No, everything I noted is fact and happened. He tried to subvert the result of the last election. There is ample evidence of it; some have even pled guilty to aspects of it with regard to GA. Similar efforts were made in half a dozen other states. The only emotional response to all of it is disgust. First that it happened, and second that so far they've all gotten away with it other than the ones who already pled. And we're not talking about Hungary or Poland. You're missing the point.
Brag of? Dude, are actually reading my posts? I'm not bragging about what he did. I'm pointing things he did that weren't benign and weren't done out of ignorance. They were done deliberately. Like Kelly, who implemented and defended the "Muslim ban"? The people who advised him to veto FISA reforms that would've helped protect 4th Amendment rights? Those competent people?
Gee, I thought I was giving my main reason why I think trump is a fascist, which I thought was the point. You apparently just place less significance on his actions prior to and after the last election than I do. But I'm not missing the point. I understand what you write. Yeah, when you list trump "accomplishments" I sort of think you're bragging about them. All I'm saying is that the guy is such a moron that if he didn't have comptetent people around him suggesting or telling him what to do, he'd spend all his time and effort on some petty stupid nonsense and boast about it and the cult will gush in awe. I doubt Kelly came up with all that on his own. Why would he? At the time, he was supposedly focused on the southern border....not a lot of Muslims crawling around down there. Stephen Miller and others had the biggest hand in that Muslim stuff. And even then it caused chaos because there was virtually no planning for it logistically. I consider Kelly competent. Oh, I forgot to mention that your whine about local law enforcement not being able to get military type weapons is nonsense. They've gotten massive amounts of it since 2001. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 30, 2024 21:18:24 GMT
Gee, I thought I was giving my main reason why I think trump is a fascist, which I thought was the point. You apparently just place less significance on his actions prior to and after the last election than I do. But I'm not missing the point. I understand what you write. You're not making an argument, and what you've listed as just as applicable to what I'm talking about (more so I'd say). They weren't listed as accomplishments. Read before reactionary posting. Lol. That's some excellent rationalization. I didn't say he came up with it on his own. I said he implemented it and defended it. Kelly was telling Congress the following to justify it: "Let's just say, for instance, a person who is trying to get to the United States to do some harm, some terrorist attack, is coming in during this period that the courts put a stay on our enforcement. We won't know that until an individual who's a bad person, until they do something bad. But it's entirely possible that someone that's coming in, whether it's during this stay court action or previous to this, they intend to do us harm." ( Source) Once again proving you don't understand what you're responding to. Local law enforcement doesn't need this stuff; it's the militarization of our police. The Obama admin had banned the transfer of military equipment to law enforcement; the Trump admin overturned that.
You should at least try to figure out what is being discussed before responding. If you don't understand, you can always ask a question.
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 31, 2024 15:42:52 GMT
Relevant to this thread:
And his full length article:
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Post by RinsePrius on Oct 31, 2024 16:20:04 GMT
As much as I oppose MAGA and support people putting aside their political differences for the good of the country, I do recognize the threat that bringing these elements in the Democratic party represents for my ultimate goal of moving the party in a leftwing populist direction.
Is there an argument to be made that the Democrats would be better served, electorally speaking, by distancing themselves from GOP Never-Trumpers and pursuing a consciously leftwing platform?
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 31, 2024 16:23:20 GMT
Is there an argument to be made that the Democrats would be better served, electorally speaking, by distancing themselves from GOP Never-Trumpers and pursuing a consciously leftwing platform? I think there's a foreign policy argument to be made; one which Trump also made/is making - which is a popular message, i.e, foreign policy restraint.
Definitely a contrast from Dick and Liz Cheney, the Lincoln Project, etc.
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Post by RinsePrius on Oct 31, 2024 16:35:09 GMT
Is there an argument to be made that the Democrats would be better served, electorally speaking, by distancing themselves from GOP Never-Trumpers and pursuing a consciously leftwing platform? I think there's a foreign policy argument to be made; one which Trump also made/is making - which is a popular message, i.e, foreign policy restraint.
Definitely a contrast from Dick and Liz Cheney, the Lincoln Project, etc.
I guess but then the Democrats would be ceding ground by implicitly accepting the narrative that Trump has a policy of restraint. I don't think that's on their agenda, and I also don't think that narrative stands up to scrutiny. foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/18/donald-trump-presidency-anti-imperialist-militarism-war/I'd say it's more effective for Democrats to say he doesn't have a clear ideology one way or the other. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 31, 2024 16:48:17 GMT
He doesn't really have a policy of restraint. He may have some restraining moments, but at heart he's a militarist. His first term was full of NeverTrumpers and establishment foreign policy gurus. But he has a message. And it's a popular message.
The problem is Democrats (outside of Bernie Sanders types) don't have a policy of restraint or a message. And now their nominee is hanging out with Liz Cheney and talking about how Iran is the greatest threat to the United States.
For example, that's why Trump is - surprisingly - actually making some in-roads with Muslim voters.
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Post by RinsePrius on Oct 31, 2024 17:25:35 GMT
He doesn't really have a policy of restraint. He may have some restraining moments, but at heart he's a militarist. His first term was full of NeverTrumpers and establishment foreign policy gurus. But he has a message. And it's a popular message.
The problem is Democrats (outside of Bernie Sanders types) don't have a policy of restraint or a message. And now their nominee is hanging out with Liz Cheney and talking about how Iran is the greatest threat to the United States.
For example, that's why Trump is - surprisingly - actually making some in-roads with Muslim voters.
Fair points. My only response is to hope foreign policy is not "front of mind" as people vote, and barring something big happening in the next few days, I expect that to be the case. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 31, 2024 17:32:07 GMT
Fair points. My only response is to hope foreign policy is not "front of mind" as people vote, and barring something big happening in the next few days, I expect that to be the case. It's usually not, but if people are truly concerned about executive power, it should be, because the President's war powers are broad and applicable to domestic issues (e.g., see the Defense Production Act re: COVID response). And those powers generally expand with each new conflict. |
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Post by runswithscissors on Oct 31, 2024 19:58:23 GMT
Gee, I thought I was giving my main reason why I think trump is a fascist, which I thought was the point. You apparently just place less significance on his actions prior to and after the last election than I do. But I'm not missing the point. I understand what you write. You're not making an argument, and what you've listed as just as applicable to what I'm talking about (more so I'd say). They weren't listed as accomplishments. Read before reactionary posting. Lol. That's some excellent rationalization. I didn't say he came up with it on his own. I said he implemented it and defended it. Kelly was telling Congress the following to justify it: "Let's just say, for instance, a person who is trying to get to the United States to do some harm, some terrorist attack, is coming in during this period that the courts put a stay on our enforcement. We won't know that until an individual who's a bad person, until they do something bad. But it's entirely possible that someone that's coming in, whether it's during this stay court action or previous to this, they intend to do us harm." ( Source) Once again proving you don't understand what you're responding to. Local law enforcement doesn't need this stuff; it's the militarization of our police. The Obama admin had banned the transfer of military equipment to law enforcement; the Trump admin overturned that.
You should at least try to figure out what is being discussed before responding. If you don't understand, you can always ask a question.
I don't know why you insist that I'm not "getting the point" or "not understanding what I read" because that's bullshit. I've been saying all along that I think trump is a fascist. You don't think so. I think General Kelly covered it pretty well by just referring to the literal definition of the term. Maybe you're not the one paying attention. But I'll give trump this.....Hitler DID do one good thing from the perspective of the people who voted for him. He sure as hell turned the German economy totally around in a very short time. The only problem wat that it only lasted twelve years. Bottom line.....I say trump is a fascist. You disagree. I say the biggest part of the Republican party is now a fascist entity. You probably disagree. Look at what trump and they say, look at what they do. You pointed them out as trump accomplishments. What am I supposed to think? That you like trump? Or that you don't? To me, anything positive he did (which I can't think of anything) is outweighd by all the negative stuff he did and normalized for Republicans, with an able assist from Fox "News" and others. It's why we're where we are today as a country. He and they have nurtured an us versus them outlook for many years and they've been quite successful. Hell, a lot of people even believe some of trump's lies simply because they're repeated ad nauseum by him and his enablers. He's a fascist. Kelly worked for trump as DHS head. His job was to implement trump policy. How he did it and how he speaks about it is up to him to a large degree. I thought you had earlier blamed him for the Muslim ban. If you did not do so, then I am mistaken. Kelly considers trump a fascist. I do, too. You don't. Did you not lament US police not having access to the equipment (military) that they say they need? I did not bring that subject up. I merely pointed out that since 9-11-01 every fucking podunk county sheriff department in the country has been given massive amounts of military grade weaponry and vehicles. I don't know why you don't know this. And your "you should at least figure out what is being discussed" little bullshit is just that. I've not "discussed" anything other than trump being a fascist and the non related things to that topic that you've brought up. And you tell me that it's ME not understanding what you write. Bullshit. Typical right wing trumpy nonsense. |
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Post by runswithscissors on Oct 31, 2024 20:05:48 GMT
Relevant to this thread:
And his full length article:
What were the fourteen other comments this clown made before coming to his conclustions? Do you think it matters? I pretty much stopped reading it when he wrote about fascism (by definition a rar right ideology) as "coming from the left." Typical trumpy nonsense. |
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