thor
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Post by thor on Sept 30, 2024 20:09:20 GMT
And you are vomiting up Trump and Fox News bullshit: The Dem voters DID have a say. Again, why do you care about Dem voters? Greg Focus GregAnon. How was what I said bullshit? Repeating the same thing over and over as a response doesn't answer my question, it just makes you look like an idiot. And so does quoting somebody else and pretending I said that. Shitbag who is on record not caring about democracy, derps about democracy. How many Marines went without needed equipment due to your incompetence, Shitbag? |
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demos
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Post by demos on Sept 30, 2024 20:56:57 GMT
Meh. The Framers are dead, and they aren't coming back. The also lived in a VERY different America. Looking at the Federalist Papers and trying to determine what James Madison would think about ChatGPT is retarded. While many of their ideas are timeless, some aren't, and they certainly weren't infallible. Trying to shoehorn 18th Century reality into the 21st Century is the cause of a great many of our problems today. In many ways, we try to look at the Constitution the same way Fundies look at the Bible. Often for the same reasons. I agree with you, but the problem is those Federalist Papers lovers vote, and your argument is not compelling to them. So unless you have a better argument, we will continue to have to contend with their deranged and outdated, nay, CONSERVATIVE, points of view. Freon If you really want to understand what "the Founders" thought, you have to look at their debates. The Federalist Papers are one thing, but you also had the anti-Federalist papers. You have the Constitutional convention debates, the state conventions, and more.
This discussion of the electoral college is a good example. There were multiple proposals for choosing the president, including popular vote - a position supported by James Wilson and Governour Morris. On July 19th, Wilson "perceived with pleasure that the idea was gaining ground, of an election mediately or immediately by the people."
The Virginia and New Jersey Plans had called for the President to be chosen by the National Legislature. Hamilton's plan is closer to what ended up in the Constitution: "His election to be made by Electors chosen by electors chosen by the people in the election districts aforesaid or by persons electors chosen for that purpose by the respective legislatures." And several states determined electors by a popular vote method around this time: Pennsylvania, Maryland, Massachusetts, Virginia and Delaware.
This of course cuts against the grain of the OP that the Founders' intent "was for the voting masses to have as little to do with selection of president... as is humanly possible." There was actually disagreement and debate about that.
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Post by elmerfudd on Oct 1, 2024 1:39:25 GMT
Well, it's just an internet forum. Yes and GregAnon is a moron. It just is what it is. No he's not. You aren't, either. |
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Lomelis
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Post by Lomelis on Oct 2, 2024 1:47:12 GMT
Focus GregAnon. How was what I said bullshit? Repeating the same thing over and over as a response doesn't answer my question, it just makes you look like an idiot. And so does quoting somebody else and pretending I said that. Shitbag who is on record not caring about democracy, derps about democracy. How many Marines went without needed equipment due to your incompetence, Shitbag? Neandertard proving he doesn't know how to read again. |
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