Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 23, 2024 5:29:07 GMT
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Post by elmerfudd on Sept 23, 2024 18:00:36 GMT
one reason it remains a toss-up is, believe it or not, "the economy." For some reason, many seem to think that a man with a degree in economics from a reputable university who does not know who pays for tariffs, and who inherited a good economy which continued improving at about the same rate it had improved for the six years prior for about 3 and half more years until the pandemic, knows something about the economy.
Those same folks think Biden caused the inflation for which he is given credit. He did not. Pandemic recovery did. And it peaked at about 9% and is now running around 2.5%. Further, wage growth overall has kept up with inflation and even surpassed it a little. Overall.
Yet many people think they are worse off. It's as if they are saying "Dang, I know I got 10% raise but everything costs 10% more!"
The main reason they think they are worse off is because they are being told they are by misinformationists, and many believe the mainstream news is fake. That it is a communist conspiracy. They believed that before Trump came along, but when he said that and all that other stupid stuff he says they rose up as one and yelled "HE'S JUST LIKE US!" The good news it's less than half of the population, the bad news is that's still way too many.
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petep
Legend
Posts: 26,031
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Post by petep on Sept 23, 2024 20:05:35 GMT
one reason it remains a toss-up is, believe it or not, "the economy." For some reason, many seem to think that a man with a degree in economics from a reputable university who does not know who pays for tariffs, and who inherited a good economy which continued improving at about the same rate it had improved for the six years prior for about 3 and half more years until the pandemic, knows something about the economy. Those same folks think Biden caused the inflation for which he is given credit. He did not. Pandemic recovery did. And it peaked at about 9% and is now running around 2.5%. Further, wage growth overall has kept up with inflation and even surpassed it a little. Overall. Yet many people think they are worse off. It's as if they are saying "Dang, I know I got 10% raise but everything costs 10% more!" The main reason they think they are worse off is because they are being told they are by misinformationists, and many believe the mainstream news is fake. That it is a communist conspiracy. They believed that before Trump came along, but when he said that and all that other stupid stuff he says they rose up as one and yelled "HE'S JUST LIKE US!" The good news it's less than half of the population, the bad news is that's still way too many. I think it’s generally true to state that democrats pushed lockdowns and business shut downs more than conservative places. Where trump said states and municipalities should decide what’s best for them Biden Harris pushed national measures. And it’s fair to state biden printed money like crazy to dig out of the shutdown mess they created. To pretend that Biden Harris do not bear responsibility for inflation and interest rates and other price skyrocketing is disingenuous at best |
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Post by freonbale on Sept 23, 2024 21:25:43 GMT
Not going to be a toss-up. Don't believe the polls. They are asking the wrong people, they are asking the wrong questions, and they are assuming no one is lying. Freon |
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Post by elmerfudd on Sept 24, 2024 2:18:56 GMT
one reason it remains a toss-up is, believe it or not, "the economy." For some reason, many seem to think that a man with a degree in economics from a reputable university who does not know who pays for tariffs, and who inherited a good economy which continued improving at about the same rate it had improved for the six years prior for about 3 and half more years until the pandemic, knows something about the economy. Those same folks think Biden caused the inflation for which he is given credit. He did not. Pandemic recovery did. And it peaked at about 9% and is now running around 2.5%. Further, wage growth overall has kept up with inflation and even surpassed it a little. Overall. Yet many people think they are worse off. It's as if they are saying "Dang, I know I got 10% raise but everything costs 10% more!" The main reason they think they are worse off is because they are being told they are by misinformationists, and many believe the mainstream news is fake. That it is a communist conspiracy. They believed that before Trump came along, but when he said that and all that other stupid stuff he says they rose up as one and yelled "HE'S JUST LIKE US!" The good news it's less than half of the population, the bad news is that's still way too many. I think it’s generally true to state that democrats pushed lockdowns and business shut downs more than conservative places. Where trump said states and municipalities should decide what’s best for them Biden Harris pushed national measures. And it’s fair to state biden printed money like crazy to dig out of the shutdown mess they created. To pretend that Biden Harris do not bear responsibility for inflation and interest rates and other price skyrocketing is disingenuous at best N Around here it was conservatives pushing all that. This state is redder than the rear end of a female baboon in heat. There is no administration and no party that has clean hands when it comes to "printing money." No, it is not disingenuous. Economy bottomed out two years into Obama's 8. It started up and continued getting better at a steady rate for the remaining 6 and continuing during Trump's 4 until the pandemic hit. Supply chains were disrupted, many in a big way. Car manufacturing, for example. Anything that needed chips. Shelves were bare at grocery stores. Everybody had plenty to eat, but choices became limited. People were laid off, government stimulus came to play, including Paycheck Protection Loans. Therefore, demand (defined as money) remained about the same. Supply dropped dramatically. New cars sold for above MSRP. Houses sold for more than asking price. Used cars increased greatly in value. Precious metals, seldom a good investment but always a good store of value, rose. I could go on but what would be the point? Neither Biden nor Trump caused any of that. Inflation peaked at about 9%. As supply chain issues were resolved, the inflation rate dropped. Currently about 2 and a half percent. That ain't bad. One thing I noted is that even people like me, who needed no stimulus money, got it, too. Of course I took it, why not? If Uncle Sugar sticks a teat in your face, suck it whether you're hungry or not. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,591
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Post by bama beau on Sept 24, 2024 2:36:59 GMT
I think it’s generally true to state that democrats pushed lockdowns and business shut downs more than conservative places. Where trump said states and municipalities should decide what’s best for them Biden Harris pushed national measures. And it’s fair to state biden printed money like crazy to dig out of the shutdown mess they created. To pretend that Biden Harris do not bear responsibility for inflation and interest rates and other price skyrocketing is disingenuous at best N Around here it was conservatives pushing all that. This state is redder than the rear end of a female baboon in heat. There is no administration and no party that has clean hands when it comes to "printing money." No, it is not disingenuous. Economy bottomed out two years into Obama's 8. It started up and continued getting better at a steady rate for the remaining 6 and continuing during Trump's 4 until the pandemic hit. Supply chains were disrupted, many in a big way. Car manufacturing, for example. Anything that needed chips. Shelves were bare at grocery stores. Everybody had plenty to eat, but choices became limited. People were laid off, government stimulus came to play, including Paycheck Protection Loans. Therefore, demand (defined as money) remained about the same. Supply dropped dramatically. New cars sold for above MSRP. Houses sold for more than asking price. Used cars increased greatly in value. Precious metals, seldom a good investment but always a good store of value, rose. I could go on but what would be the point? Neither Biden nor Trump caused any of that. Inflation peaked at about 9%. As supply chain issues were resolved, the inflation rate dropped. Currently about 2 and a half percent. That ain't bad. One thing I noted is that even people like me, who needed no stimulus money, got it, too. Of course I took it, why not? If Uncle Sugar sticks a teat in your face, suck it whether you're hungry or not. We declined all that sh*t. Didn't need it, didn't want it. EDIT: By which I mean to say that all my people were deemed essential, which is why they were my people. Command the high ground. |
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 24, 2024 6:36:26 GMT
one reason it remains a toss-up is, believe it or not, "the economy." For some reason, many seem to think that a man with a degree in economics from a reputable university who does not know who pays for tariffs, and who inherited a good economy which continued improving at about the same rate it had improved for the six years prior for about 3 and half more years until the pandemic, knows something about the economy. Those same folks think Biden caused the inflation for which he is given credit. He did not. Pandemic recovery did. And it peaked at about 9% and is now running around 2.5%. Further, wage growth overall has kept up with inflation and even surpassed it a little. Overall. Yet many people think they are worse off. It's as if they are saying "Dang, I know I got 10% raise but everything costs 10% more!" The main reason they think they are worse off is because they are being told they are by misinformationists, and many believe the mainstream news is fake. That it is a communist conspiracy. They believed that before Trump came along, but when he said that and all that other stupid stuff he says they rose up as one and yelled "HE'S JUST LIKE US!" The good news it's less than half of the population, the bad news is that's still way too many. Assuming the government numbers are correct regarding wage growth and inflation, that average wage growth was slightly higher than the rate of inflation during this period while trying to claim half the country is just ignorant, misinformed, and/or dumb about what they are personally experiencing is the height of obnoxious, arrogant, elitist, leftist stupidity. You know better about their own wages and expenses than they do. The attitude of the left towards the working class is what is driving people towards Trump. You do realize that for 10's of millions of Americans that their wages did not in fact keep pace with inflation? You understand averages right? That wages and expenses are pretty unique to everyone? |
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Post by elmerfudd on Sept 24, 2024 19:01:05 GMT
one reason it remains a toss-up is, believe it or not, "the economy." For some reason, many seem to think that a man with a degree in economics from a reputable university who does not know who pays for tariffs, and who inherited a good economy which continued improving at about the same rate it had improved for the six years prior for about 3 and half more years until the pandemic, knows something about the economy. Those same folks think Biden caused the inflation for which he is given credit. He did not. Pandemic recovery did. And it peaked at about 9% and is now running around 2.5%. Further, wage growth overall has kept up with inflation and even surpassed it a little. Overall. Yet many people think they are worse off. It's as if they are saying "Dang, I know I got 10% raise but everything costs 10% more!" The main reason they think they are worse off is because they are being told they are by misinformationists, and many believe the mainstream news is fake. That it is a communist conspiracy. They believed that before Trump came along, but when he said that and all that other stupid stuff he says they rose up as one and yelled "HE'S JUST LIKE US!" The good news it's less than half of the population, the bad news is that's still way too many. Assuming the government numbers are correct regarding wage growth and inflation, that average wage growth was slightly higher than the rate of inflation during this period while trying to claim half the country is just ignorant, misinformed, and/or dumb about what they are personally experiencing is the height of obnoxious, arrogant, elitist, leftist stupidity. You know better about their own wages and expenses than they do. The attitude of the left towards the working class is what is driving people towards Trump. You do realize that for 10's of millions of Americans that their wages did not in fact keep pace with inflation? You understand averages right? That wages and expenses are pretty unique to everyone? Yes, I understand about averages. I also understand that statistics tell more than anecdotes. I also understand that outgo has exceeded income for many people long before Biden took office, or Trump, or Obama, or Bush II, etc. etc. I also know, from reading history, that the gaps remain very comparable - that wages do increase when inflation drives expenses up, but many people simply stay in the same bind they've been in for years. I didn't say or imply they were ignorant, though many of them are. We are all ignorant, just in different subjects. I do believe that a lot of them are deliberately misinformed, though. |
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Post by MojoJojo on Sept 24, 2024 20:04:04 GMT
It's almost like the Big Corps and countless small businesses that make decisions affecting the economy don't even exist. The free market we sorta resemble may as well not either. The POTUS, however, is directly sponsible for the prices of gas, groceries and food. We can ignore the thousands of variables and focus exclusively on the letters R or D to accurately predict the future and summarize the past. How convenient is that?!
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petep
Legend
Posts: 26,031
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Post by petep on Sept 24, 2024 20:14:45 GMT
It's almost like the Big Corps and countless small businesses that make decisions affecting the economy don't even exist. The free market we sorta resemble may as well not either. The POTUS, however, is directly sponsible for the prices of gas, groceries and food. We can ignore the thousands of variables and focus exclusively on the letters R or D to accurately predict the future and summarize the past. How convenient is that?! To deny that shutting down small business and printing money like crazy and shutting down pipelines doesn’t affect things is foolish. |
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Post by MojoJojo on Sept 24, 2024 20:20:33 GMT
It's almost like the Big Corps and countless small businesses that make decisions affecting the economy don't even exist. The free market we sorta resemble may as well not either. The POTUS, however, is directly sponsible for the prices of gas, groceries and food. We can ignore the thousands of variables and focus exclusively on the letters R or D to accurately predict the future and summarize the past. How convenient is that?! To deny that shutting down small business and printing money like crazy and shutting down pipelines doesn’t affect things is foolish. I get it. The reaction to the pandemic killed the economy, I agree. That was four years ago and not a thing can be done to undo it. Acknowledge it, learn from it, and move on... |
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 26, 2024 3:50:16 GMT
Assuming the government numbers are correct regarding wage growth and inflation, that average wage growth was slightly higher than the rate of inflation during this period while trying to claim half the country is just ignorant, misinformed, and/or dumb about what they are personally experiencing is the height of obnoxious, arrogant, elitist, leftist stupidity. You know better about their own wages and expenses than they do. The attitude of the left towards the working class is what is driving people towards Trump. You do realize that for 10's of millions of Americans that their wages did not in fact keep pace with inflation? You understand averages right? That wages and expenses are pretty unique to everyone? Yes, I understand about averages. I also understand that statistics tell more than anecdotes. I also understand that outgo has exceeded income for many people long before Biden took office, or Trump, or Obama, or Bush II, etc. etc. I also know, from reading history, that the gaps remain very comparable - that wages do increase when inflation drives expenses up, but many people simply stay in the same bind they've been in for years. I didn't say or imply they were ignorant, though many of them are. We are all ignorant, just in different subjects. I do believe that a lot of them are deliberately misinformed, though. You were making a blanket statement claiming the -main- reason they thought that way was because they were misinformed when likely close to 50% of wage earners did not have their wages keep up with inflation. How could that possibly be that they are just misinformed? Perhaps a small percentage of those who actually did get higher wages than inflation but even then maybe they aren't thinking about themselves but those who didn't have it as good. |
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