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Post by freonbale on Sept 19, 2024 20:10:58 GMT
Thank you, demos. You came to the conclusion I was trying to get Paleo to see. There is (obviously) a divide within the union, and though that poll suggests that it is an unequal divide, the reality is that it is likely much closer to equal, and so an endorsement of one side or the other would misrepresent, and anger, a good half of the union. Freon Yeah, that's SOOOO completely different from what I said:
"Most of the Teamster leadership are leftists, while the rank and file support Trump. The leftists are trying not to burn bridges." - Paleo.
Here's the real point of the union's lack of endorsement:
From April 9-July 3, nearly 300 Teamsters local unions nationwide conducted first-of-their-kind Presidential town halls, soliciting endorsement preferences from members via straw polls. The in-person voting was held prior to Biden’s withdrawal from the race. The Teamsters’ polling data shows members backed Biden 44.3 percent to Trump’s 36.3 percent.
Following the Republican National Convention and Biden’s campaign exit, the Teamsters commissioned a national electronic poll of its 1.3 million members, overseen by an independent third party. During a voting window from July 24-Sept. 15, rank-and-file Teamsters voted 59.6 percent for the union to endorse Trump, compared to 34 percent for Harris.
In the past week, following the Democratic National Convention and recent Presidential debate, the Teamsters commissioned independent polling firm Lake Research Partners to conduct the union’s final national survey. In the poll ending Sept. 15, Teamsters selected Trump by 58 percent for endorsement over 31 percent for Harris.
According to the Teamsters, Harris is toxic and getting more so. Biden was up on Trump in Teamster poling before he was forced out, with only 36.3% for Trump vs Biden. Biden would have likely carried the Teamsters and gotten the endorsement of the union if he'd stayed in the race. Only when fake, incompetent Harris became the pick did the Teamsters support for the Democrats crater.
This is a potential sign of the hidden majority that has rejected Harris and have a sour taste because she was anointed as the candidate.
I was trying to get YOU to understand the deeper meaning that I just educated you on, but as usual, shallow thinkers like you come to shallow conclusions. Your narrative is so weak that you had to make up the "though that poll suggests that it is an unequal divide, the reality is that it is likely much closer to equal" fiction rather than look at the real facts.
What will happen when you lose the election, then? This 'hidden majority' doesn't exist, but I understand why you want it to. The information you provided is both cherry-picked, and unreliable, but it says what you want, so I guess that's enough for people like you. Freon |
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 19, 2024 20:25:43 GMT
Yeah, that's SOOOO completely different from what I said:
"Most of the Teamster leadership are leftists, while the rank and file support Trump. The leftists are trying not to burn bridges." - Paleo.
Here's the real point of the union's lack of endorsement:
From April 9-July 3, nearly 300 Teamsters local unions nationwide conducted first-of-their-kind Presidential town halls, soliciting endorsement preferences from members via straw polls. The in-person voting was held prior to Biden’s withdrawal from the race. The Teamsters’ polling data shows members backed Biden 44.3 percent to Trump’s 36.3 percent.
Following the Republican National Convention and Biden’s campaign exit, the Teamsters commissioned a national electronic poll of its 1.3 million members, overseen by an independent third party. During a voting window from July 24-Sept. 15, rank-and-file Teamsters voted 59.6 percent for the union to endorse Trump, compared to 34 percent for Harris.
In the past week, following the Democratic National Convention and recent Presidential debate, the Teamsters commissioned independent polling firm Lake Research Partners to conduct the union’s final national survey. In the poll ending Sept. 15, Teamsters selected Trump by 58 percent for endorsement over 31 percent for Harris.
According to the Teamsters, Harris is toxic and getting more so. Biden was up on Trump in Teamster poling before he was forced out, with only 36.3% for Trump vs Biden. Biden would have likely carried the Teamsters and gotten the endorsement of the union if he'd stayed in the race. Only when fake, incompetent Harris became the pick did the Teamsters support for the Democrats crater.
This is a potential sign of the hidden majority that has rejected Harris and have a sour taste because she was anointed as the candidate.
I was trying to get YOU to understand the deeper meaning that I just educated you on, but as usual, shallow thinkers like you come to shallow conclusions. Your narrative is so weak that you had to make up the "though that poll suggests that it is an unequal divide, the reality is that it is likely much closer to equal" fiction rather than look at the real facts.
What will happen when you lose the election, then? This 'hidden majority' doesn't exist, but I understand why you want it to. The information you provided is both cherry-picked, and unreliable, but it says what you want, so I guess that's enough for people like you. Freon In a fair and free election, untainted by liberal censorship and corruption, Trump and the Republicans will win in a landslide.
Can you back up your claim that the data is "cherry-picked, and unreliable" or were you just being dishonest in making that statement?
Did you notice that the data came directly from the Teamsters, not a third party news site?
You're incapable of being objective, aren't you?
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Post by freonbale on Sept 19, 2024 20:43:07 GMT
What will happen when you lose the election, then? This 'hidden majority' doesn't exist, but I understand why you want it to. The information you provided is both cherry-picked, and unreliable, but it says what you want, so I guess that's enough for people like you. Freon In a fair and free election, untainted by liberal censorship and corruption, Trump and the Republicans will win in a landslide.
Can you back up your claim that the data is "cherry-picked, and unreliable" or were you just being dishonest in making that statement?
Did you notice that the data came directly from the Teamsters, not a third party news site?
You're incapable of being objective, aren't you?
I noticed the DATA came from the Teamsters. It's the INFORMATION you are deducing from it that I question. Data is NOT Information. I'm not sure how many times this has to be said in order for people like you to understand. Context is what gives data meaning, and you have not looked at the context for what you linked. Had you, you would realize that other data, also released by the Teamsters, tells a different, more balanced, story. But you don't want to hear that. You WANT to hear that your side is 'winning', so you ignore truthful context, and apply your own to the data, forming the inaccurate conclusions you've posted. I would call my analysis completely objective, but you are welcome to disagree. Freon |
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Post by HolyMoly on Sept 19, 2024 20:44:12 GMT
You learn something new every day. Who cares if the Teamsters didn't endorse anyone.
The Teamsters Union also makes an annual contribution to Friends of Sinn Féin — the U.S.
fundraising arm of Irish republican party Sinn Féin. Keep on Truckin'.
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RWB
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Post by RWB on Sept 19, 2024 20:51:03 GMT
So the vast majority of Teamsters, who supposedly are all Donald supporters, elected 'Leftist' leaders? You don't see a problem with that explanation? Freon Those Teamster leaders have been in place for a while, so it's the rank and file that are becoming disillusioned with Democrats and their perverted policies favoring the rich elitists.
You're witnessing a major political realignment, where the working class folks are shifting away from an increasingly radical Democratic Party that embraces sexual filth, caters to the wealthy and supports foreign entanglements.
But I see that you are so embedded in your cult that you refuse to believe the polling that the Teamsters did themselves.
Pretending that you were ever a Republican is a joke now.
If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.
along with all the other BULLSHIT he tries to pass off. Ever notice since the first day he showed up on the original LNF he never says a bad thing about his corrupt Democrats? AND I highly doubt he's even employed. He comes up with outrageous bullshit like I'm in 2 meetings at the same time while posting on LNF for hours straight! No Company would ever keep a total Fuck off on the payroll. WTF is it with liberals trying to be something they're not? |
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Paleocon
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Posts: 7,345
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 19, 2024 21:06:37 GMT
In a fair and free election, untainted by liberal censorship and corruption, Trump and the Republicans will win in a landslide.
Can you back up your claim that the data is "cherry-picked, and unreliable" or were you just being dishonest in making that statement?
Did you notice that the data came directly from the Teamsters, not a third party news site?
You're incapable of being objective, aren't you?
I noticed the DATA came from the Teamsters. It's the INFORMATION you are deducing from it that I question. Data is NOT Information. I'm not sure how many times this has to be said in order for people like you to understand. Context is what gives data meaning, and you have not looked at the context for what you linked. Had you, you would realize that other data, also released by the Teamsters, tells a different, more balanced, story. But you don't want to hear that. You WANT to hear that your side is 'winning', so you ignore truthful context, and apply your own to the data, forming the inaccurate conclusions you've posted. I would call my analysis completely objective, but you are welcome to disagree. Freon Data IS information, as opposed to analysis or opinion. You missed the English language classes while you were getting that "massive education", didn't you?
Please either share this vaunted "other data" that you claim to have seen or just admit that you made it all up.
Your analysis is subjective garbage. It's YOU that wants to ignore the fact that Harris caused Teamster support to tank. She has that effect in many other places, but that's hidden by the enemy of the people, the main stream media.
Once again, if you claim context from other data, here's your chance to put up or shut up.
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Post by freonbale on Sept 19, 2024 21:17:02 GMT
I noticed the DATA came from the Teamsters. It's the INFORMATION you are deducing from it that I question. Data is NOT Information. I'm not sure how many times this has to be said in order for people like you to understand. Context is what gives data meaning, and you have not looked at the context for what you linked. Had you, you would realize that other data, also released by the Teamsters, tells a different, more balanced, story. But you don't want to hear that. You WANT to hear that your side is 'winning', so you ignore truthful context, and apply your own to the data, forming the inaccurate conclusions you've posted. I would call my analysis completely objective, but you are welcome to disagree. Freon Data IS information, as opposed to analysis or opinion. You missed the English language classes while you were getting that "massive education", didn't you?
Please either share this vaunted "other data" that you claim to have seen or just admit that you made it all up.
Your analysis is subjective garbage. It's YOU that wants to ignore the fact that Harris caused Teamster support to tank. She has that effect in many other places, but that's hidden by the enemy of the people, the main stream media.
Once again, if you claim context from other data, here's your chance to put up or shut up.
I'm not speaking from an English perspective, as you are admitting to doing. I'm speaking from a SCIENCE perspective, which is the authority on analyzing data and turning it into information that can then be used to make decisions. That you don't understand this, explains why you keep misunderstanding what the data actually means. And I'm not trying to tell you what it means. You wouldn't listen to me anyway. I'm the enemy. instead,, I am trying to show you HOW to understand data, so that you can do so for yourself, should you ever want to. Your post indicates that at this time, you don't want to actually understand. You want to feel good. And THAT, is objectively, not objective. Freon |
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thor
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Posts: 20,524
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Post by thor on Sept 19, 2024 21:52:01 GMT
I noticed the DATA came from the Teamsters. It's the INFORMATION you are deducing from it that I question. Data is NOT Information. I'm not sure how many times this has to be said in order for people like you to understand. Context is what gives data meaning, and you have not looked at the context for what you linked. Had you, you would realize that other data, also released by the Teamsters, tells a different, more balanced, story. But you don't want to hear that. You WANT to hear that your side is 'winning', so you ignore truthful context, and apply your own to the data, forming the inaccurate conclusions you've posted. I would call my analysis completely objective, but you are welcome to disagree. Freon Data IS information, as opposed to analysis or opinion. You missed the English language classes while you were getting that "massive education", didn't you?
Please either share this vaunted "other data" that you claim to have seen or just admit that you made it all up.
Your analysis is subjective garbage. It's YOU that wants to ignore the fact that Harris caused Teamster support to tank. She has that effect in many other places, but that's hidden by the enemy of the people, the main stream media.
Once again, if you claim context from other data, here's your chance to put up or shut up.
Mediocre white man Paleo has a massive inferiority complex. Is it because his 'smarter' ancestors were killed by Federal guns? |
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thor
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Post by thor on Sept 19, 2024 21:53:10 GMT
Those Teamster leaders have been in place for a while, so it's the rank and file that are becoming disillusioned with Democrats and their perverted policies favoring the rich elitists.
You're witnessing a major political realignment, where the working class folks are shifting away from an increasingly radical Democratic Party that embraces sexual filth, caters to the wealthy and supports foreign entanglements.
But I see that you are so embedded in your cult that you refuse to believe the polling that the Teamsters did themselves.
Pretending that you were ever a Republican is a joke now.
If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.
along with all the other BULLSHIT he tries to pass off. Ever notice since the first day he showed up on the original LNF he never says a bad thing about his corrupt Democrats? AND I highly doubt he's even employed. He comes up with outrageous bullshit like I'm in 2 meetings at the same time while posting on LNF for hours straight! No Company would ever keep a total Fuck off on the payroll. WTF is it with liberals trying to be something they're not? Simping for your fellow racist?  |
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 19, 2024 21:53:48 GMT
Data IS information, as opposed to analysis or opinion. You missed the English language classes while you were getting that "massive education", didn't you?
Please either share this vaunted "other data" that you claim to have seen or just admit that you made it all up.
Your analysis is subjective garbage. It's YOU that wants to ignore the fact that Harris caused Teamster support to tank. She has that effect in many other places, but that's hidden by the enemy of the people, the main stream media.
Once again, if you claim context from other data, here's your chance to put up or shut up.
I'm not speaking from an English perspective, as you are admitting to doing. I'm speaking from a SCIENCE perspective, which is the authority on analyzing data and turning it into information that can then be used to make decisions. That you don't understand this, explains why you keep misunderstanding what the data actually means. And I'm not trying to tell you what it means. You wouldn't listen to me anyway. I'm the enemy. instead,, I am trying to show you HOW to understand data, so that you can do so for yourself, should you ever want to. Your post indicates that at this time, you don't want to actually understand. You want to feel good. And THAT, is objectively, not objective. Freon You're speaking from a cultist's perspective, nothing more. Data was, is and will remain information. An analysis, scientific or otherwise, may yield more information from the data or lead to a conclusion.
I'm afraid that you wouldn't like the outcome if you and I starting parsing data and figuring out what something means; if you had any talent in that "science" at all, I wouldn't be the only one providing data here and interpreting it.
You claimed that there is "other data" that will add context, but when asked to produce said data, you tucked tail and ran away.
If you think that I don't understand, here's your chance to prove that you are being honest in your desire to show me HOW to understand the data. You wouldn't lie about something like that, now would you?
You're not my enemy. You'd have to have the courage to step into the ring with me to gain a promotion to that level.
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 19, 2024 21:58:05 GMT
Data IS information, as opposed to analysis or opinion. You missed the English language classes while you were getting that "massive education", didn't you?
Please either share this vaunted "other data" that you claim to have seen or just admit that you made it all up.
Your analysis is subjective garbage. It's YOU that wants to ignore the fact that Harris caused Teamster support to tank. She has that effect in many other places, but that's hidden by the enemy of the people, the main stream media.
Once again, if you claim context from other data, here's your chance to put up or shut up.
Mediocre white man Paleo has a massive inferiority complex. Is it because his 'smarter' ancestors were killed by Federal guns? Quiet, boy. While you've been cowering in the corner, soiling yourself and shaking in fear, I've been schooling Freon on his errors and he's been tucking tail and running away. Your turn will come, but you have to be patient. I can only kick one ass at a time. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 19, 2024 22:03:56 GMT
Data IS information, as opposed to analysis or opinion. You missed the English language classes while you were getting that "massive education", didn't you?
Please either share this vaunted "other data" that you claim to have seen or just admit that you made it all up.
Your analysis is subjective garbage. It's YOU that wants to ignore the fact that Harris caused Teamster support to tank. She has that effect in many other places, but that's hidden by the enemy of the people, the main stream media.
Once again, if you claim context from other data, here's your chance to put up or shut up. Mediocre white man Paleo has a massive inferiority complex. Is it because his 'smarter' ancestors were killed by Federal guns?
Probably...
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Post by freonbale on Sept 19, 2024 22:14:53 GMT
I'm not speaking from an English perspective, as you are admitting to doing. I'm speaking from a SCIENCE perspective, which is the authority on analyzing data and turning it into information that can then be used to make decisions. That you don't understand this, explains why you keep misunderstanding what the data actually means. And I'm not trying to tell you what it means. You wouldn't listen to me anyway. I'm the enemy. instead,, I am trying to show you HOW to understand data, so that you can do so for yourself, should you ever want to. Your post indicates that at this time, you don't want to actually understand. You want to feel good. And THAT, is objectively, not objective. Freon You're speaking from a cultist's perspective, nothing more. Data was, is and will remain information. An analysis, scientific or otherwise, may yield more information from the data or lead to a conclusion.
I'm afraid that you wouldn't like the outcome if you and I starting parsing data and figuring out what something means; if you had any talent in that "science" at all, I wouldn't be the only one providing data here and interpreting it.
You claimed that there is "other data" that will add context, but when asked to produce said data, you tucked tail and ran away.
If you think that I don't understand, here's your chance to prove that you are being honest in your desire to show me HOW to understand the data. You wouldn't lie about something like that, now would you?
You're not my enemy. You'd have to have the courage to step into the ring with me to gain a promotion to that level.
I do occasionally experiment showing info, just to see if anything has changed, but in the many years since I made the decision to stop showing you the actual accurate, contextual information, your side has NEVER changed its position, even when the information clearly denounced your existing point of view. You've trained me to interact with you in the way that works. If you responded rationally towards new information shown, I would absolutely use it with you. So instead, I am retraining you in more subtle ways. And that too, seems to work. Freon |
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thor
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Post by thor on Sept 20, 2024 11:53:02 GMT
Mediocre white man Paleo has a massive inferiority complex. Is it because his 'smarter' ancestors were killed by Federal guns? Quiet, boy. While you've been cowering in the corner, soiling yourself and shaking in fear, I've been schooling Freon on his errors and he's been tucking tail and running away. Your turn will come, but you have to be patient. I can only kick one ass at a time. Didn't see your ass during OIF/OEF, Cuck. What happened? |
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 20, 2024 15:38:19 GMT
You're speaking from a cultist's perspective, nothing more. Data was, is and will remain information. An analysis, scientific or otherwise, may yield more information from the data or lead to a conclusion.
I'm afraid that you wouldn't like the outcome if you and I starting parsing data and figuring out what something means; if you had any talent in that "science" at all, I wouldn't be the only one providing data here and interpreting it.
You claimed that there is "other data" that will add context, but when asked to produce said data, you tucked tail and ran away.
If you think that I don't understand, here's your chance to prove that you are being honest in your desire to show me HOW to understand the data. You wouldn't lie about something like that, now would you?
You're not my enemy. You'd have to have the courage to step into the ring with me to gain a promotion to that level.
I do occasionally experiment showing info, just to see if anything has changed, but in the many years since I made the decision to stop showing you the actual accurate, contextual information, your side has NEVER changed its position, even when the information clearly denounced your existing point of view. You've trained me to interact with you in the way that works. If you responded rationally towards new information shown, I would absolutely use it with you. So instead, I am retraining you in more subtle ways. And that too, seems to work. Freon So, if we don't play the game so that it results in a victory for you, you just take your ball and go home? Are you this immature IRL?
You made the assertion that context and information were missing, yet retreated from the simple request for you to back up that assertion.
That cast doubt on your honesty on this forum, especially with your reputation for running away every time we challenge you.
An honest man will back up what he posts and answer the challenges to his ideas, regardless whether or not an opponent is convinced.
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Post by Fiddler on Sept 20, 2024 16:39:29 GMT
Data is Information in exactly the same way as Flour, Milk, Eggs, and Butter is a Cake .. ..
.. . . that is unless you're a science illiterate, an English major, or a right-wing nut job .. ..
Without context, numbers are just numbers ..
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Post by freonbale on Sept 20, 2024 18:16:20 GMT
Data is Information in exactly the same way as Flour, Milk, Eggs, and Butter is a Cake .. ..
.. . . that is unless you're a science illiterate, an English major, or a right-wing nut job .. ..
Without context, numbers are just numbers ..
That first part is a good way of putting it. I would amend it slightly, in that they make the ingredients be whatever they already baked in their minds. Freon |
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Post by freonbale on Sept 20, 2024 18:34:00 GMT
I do occasionally experiment showing info, just to see if anything has changed, but in the many years since I made the decision to stop showing you the actual accurate, contextual information, your side has NEVER changed its position, even when the information clearly denounced your existing point of view. You've trained me to interact with you in the way that works. If you responded rationally towards new information shown, I would absolutely use it with you. So instead, I am retraining you in more subtle ways. And that too, seems to work. Freon So, if we don't play the game so that it results in a victory for you, you just take your ball and go home? Are you this immature IRL?
You made the assertion that context and information were missing, yet retreated from the simple request for you to back up that assertion.
That cast doubt on your honesty on this forum, especially with your reputation for running away every time we challenge you.
An honest man will back up what he posts and answer the challenges to his ideas, regardless whether or not an opponent is convinced.
You do not get to define what honesty looks like, Paleo, and as I have not lied ever in here, my own opinion on that subject is self-evident. I'm a pragmatic person by nature, so I do not waste time or play games, when cutting straight to the point is available to me. You, and your far right buddies, refuse to be convinced by the evidence you are asking me to produce, so what is the point in trying? That you even suggest that you are amenable to being convinced, and therefore trying on my part is worthwhile, is DISHONEST. So dishonest. No, your strategy, and the strategy of your far right peers, is to keep those who DO have the truth, TRYING to convince you. Your news agencies, your pastors, and your leaders, all have nicely conditioned you to do this. As long as you can keep the other side trying and trying, you've 'won', because you are wasting their time, and they are not wise to it. But I am. So you will NEVER succeed in that tactic with me. And I'm telling you this because I am totally confident that even though you know, there is nothing you can do about it. You operate by MY rules when we communicate, and YOU are not the wiser to it. That's what I mean when I say I've trained you. I'm actually using the same exact techniques your own authoritative sources do. Freon |
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 20, 2024 19:20:03 GMT
Data is Information in exactly the same way as Flour, Milk, Eggs, and Butter is a Cake .. ..
.. . . that is unless you're a science illiterate, an English major, or a right-wing nut job .. ..
Without context, numbers are just numbers ..
Calm down, boy, your stupidity is showing.
I provided all of the context that simpletons like you or Freon would need, and challenged Freon to provide his take if he has more context or data.
Like you, he had nothing. Freon ran away, as usual, and I'm betting that you have less balls than Freon.
So, I'll give you a chance to show us that you're not afraid to add this magical context that Freon lacks the courage to share.
You're up, boy....let's see what you've got.
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Post by Fiddler on Sept 20, 2024 19:24:36 GMT
Data is Information in exactly the same way as Flour, Milk, Eggs, and Butter is a Cake .. ..
.. . . that is unless you're a science illiterate, an English major, or a right-wing nut job .. ..
Without context, numbers are just numbers ..
....let's see what you've got.
Facts .. Same thing I've always used to kick your slaver ass ..
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