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Post by slefty on Sept 9, 2024 7:06:34 GMT
So let the "experts" censor? Experts in what?
Do I really need to point out I disagree with all forms of censorship after years of warning about the left's increasing love for censorship becoming dangerous? Since I started freaking out about 2017's NetzDG or opinion pieces at NPR and the NY Times rationalizing how free speech shouldn't actually exist? Or do you think I'm seriously making a policy proposal here rather than highlighting the foolishness of the "ban assault weapons" crowd?
Queshank
Who knows what the fuck you did or are doing now Sybil. Go smoke a bowl, you make even less sense straight then you did fucked up.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 11:42:15 GMT
The devil is in the details and it depends on what we mean by "go after." I am all about aiming for better I just recoil from language that insinuates perfection is attainable, or that every movement away from idealism is corruption.
How about we just do away with the parties that have incentives and goals that run contrary to democracy and were discouraged by our Founders as the enemies of such?
One down. One to go. Lest you misunderstand.
Democrats and their allies sue to keep RFK Jr. off the ballot in several states
Trump Says He Has ‘No Problem’ Including R.F.K. Jr. in Debates
But President Biden’s campaign has been firm in wanting the debates to be between only him and the former president.
Queshank
That's like the ancaps who want to do away with government and collapse politics into market exchange. Little do they know, politics would simply return in a new, most likely worse form. The same is true of this idea about doing away with political parties.
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,526
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Post by thor on Sept 9, 2024 12:29:40 GMT
How about we just do away with the parties that have incentives and goals that run contrary to democracy and were discouraged by our Founders as the enemies of such?
One down. One to go. Lest you misunderstand.
Democrats and their allies sue to keep RFK Jr. off the ballot in several states
Trump Says He Has ‘No Problem’ Including R.F.K. Jr. in Debates
But President Biden’s campaign has been firm in wanting the debates to be between only him and the former president.
Queshank
That's like the ancaps who want to do away with government and collapse politics into market exchange. Little do they know, politics would simply return in a new, most likely worse form. The same is true of this idea about doing away with political parties. 'Ancapistan' would end up being Neo-Feudalist society, or some other unworkable dipshittery.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 12:32:44 GMT
The devil is in the details and it depends on what we mean by "go after." I am all about aiming for better I just recoil from language that insinuates perfection is attainable, or that every movement away from idealism is corruption.
How about we just do away with the parties that have incentives and goals that run contrary to democracy and were discouraged by our Founders as the enemies of such?
One down. One to go. Lest you misunderstand.
Democrats and their allies sue to keep RFK Jr. off the ballot in several states
Trump Says He Has ‘No Problem’ Including R.F.K. Jr. in Debates
But President Biden’s campaign has been firm in wanting the debates to be between only him and the former president.
Queshank
All of the Sacred Norms that I like and cement the current elites in power cannot be changed, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we change them. The pesky Moral and Traditional Norms are not sacred and must be changed for equity or something, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we keep them and oppressed people will start murdering kids and killing themselves and it will be your fault.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 12:35:46 GMT
How about we just do away with the parties that have incentives and goals that run contrary to democracy and were discouraged by our Founders as the enemies of such?
One down. One to go. Lest you misunderstand.
Democrats and their allies sue to keep RFK Jr. off the ballot in several states
Trump Says He Has ‘No Problem’ Including R.F.K. Jr. in Debates
But President Biden’s campaign has been firm in wanting the debates to be between only him and the former president.
Queshank
All of the Sacred Norms that I like and cement the current elites in power cannot be changed, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we change them. The pesky Moral and Traditional Norms are not sacred and must be changed for equity or something, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we keep them and oppressed people will start murdering kids and killing themselves and it will be your fault. Change is good we just have to realistic about the situation and what we can accomplish. This notion that political parties themselves are the problem is misguided and when you start from misguided premises, even well-intentioned people make matters worse.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 12:42:20 GMT
That's like the ancaps who want to do away with government and collapse politics into market exchange. Little do they know, politics would simply return in a new, most likely worse form. The same is true of this idea about doing away with political parties. 'Ancapistan' would end up being Neo-Feudalist society, or some other unworkable dipshittery. Yep, they would discover that public institutions aren't what's complicating political life, rather political life and the decisions involved are complicated all on their own. You know, there's a neat symmetry between the button-pushing anarchists on LNF and the communist/socialists who support central planning. Both have simple answers to complicated problems. If only we got rid of money, markets, property and prices, a central planner could allocate resources better and make everyone happier. In practice, we find these allocative decisions absent market institutions to be intractable, and the whole complex extended order of market production and exchange collapses and people suffer. We should extend that lesson to politics and remember that absent political parties, the decisions and choices embedded in political questions don't get easier, or more tractable.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 13:04:59 GMT
All of the Sacred Norms that I like and cement the current elites in power cannot be changed, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we change them. The pesky Moral and Traditional Norms are not sacred and must be changed for equity or something, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we keep them and oppressed people will start murdering kids and killing themselves and it will be your fault. Change is good we just have to realistic about the situation and what we can accomplish. This notion that political parties themselves are the problem is misguided and when you start from misguided premises, even well-intentioned people make matters worse. The press, conceptually, is not the problem. Similarly, Political parties, conceptually, are not a problem. Yet the current iterations of these institutions are a problem.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 13:20:06 GMT
Change is good we just have to realistic about the situation and what we can accomplish. This notion that political parties themselves are the problem is misguided and when you start from misguided premises, even well-intentioned people make matters worse. The press, conceptually, is not the problem. Similarly, Political parties, conceptually, are not a problem. Yet the current iterations of these institutions are a problem. I don't think the current iteration is a problem either, not if the implication is a few tweaks to the current iteration would end the problem. It's my argument that "The Problem" is rooted in the nature of people living together and can be made worse or better but never solved.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 14:52:33 GMT
The press, conceptually, is not the problem. Similarly, Political parties, conceptually, are not a problem. Yet the current iterations of these institutions are a problem. I don't think the current iteration is a problem either, not if the implication is a few tweaks to the current iteration would end the problem. It's my argument that "The Problem" is rooted in the nature of people living together and can be made worse or better but never solved. Ok I choose "better".
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 17:54:40 GMT
Do I really need to point out I disagree with all forms of censorship after years of warning about the left's increasing love for censorship becoming dangerous? Since I started freaking out about 2017's NetzDG or opinion pieces at NPR and the NY Times rationalizing how free speech shouldn't actually exist? Or do you think I'm seriously making a policy proposal here rather than highlighting the foolishness of the "ban assault weapons" crowd?
Queshank
Who knows what the fuck you did or are doing now Sybil. Go smoke a bowl, you make even less sense straight then you did fucked up.
It's sad your cognitive dissonance problem is so severe you can't even engage in a conversation
I won't let them get away with what they've done to you slefty.
Queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 18:05:34 GMT
How about we just do away with the parties that have incentives and goals that run contrary to democracy and were discouraged by our Founders as the enemies of such?
One down. One to go. Lest you misunderstand.
Democrats and their allies sue to keep RFK Jr. off the ballot in several states
Trump Says He Has ‘No Problem’ Including R.F.K. Jr. in Debates
But President Biden’s campaign has been firm in wanting the debates to be between only him and the former president.
Queshank
That's like the ancaps who want to do away with government and collapse politics into market exchange. Little do they know, politics would simply return in a new, most likely worse form. The same is true of this idea about doing away with political parties.
Is it? Is it just like your prior set of pre packaged beliefs I used to argue against using this exact same argument?
Tiny pepperonis TL. Tiny pepperonis.
Queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 18:06:23 GMT
All of the Sacred Norms that I like and cement the current elites in power cannot be changed, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we change them. The pesky Moral and Traditional Norms are not sacred and must be changed for equity or something, and to argue otherwise is fascist. Everything falls apart if we keep them and oppressed people will start murdering kids and killing themselves and it will be your fault. Change is good we just have to realistic about the situation and what we can accomplish. This notion that political parties themselves are the problem is misguided and when you start from misguided premises, even well-intentioned people make matters worse.
Said every sycophant of the ruling elite ever.
Queshank
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,526
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Post by thor on Sept 9, 2024 18:29:11 GMT
Change is good we just have to realistic about the situation and what we can accomplish. This notion that political parties themselves are the problem is misguided and when you start from misguided premises, even well-intentioned people make matters worse.
Said every sycophant of the ruling elite ever.
Queshank
Sez Que-Anon the Trump voter.
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Post by slefty on Sept 9, 2024 20:58:59 GMT
Who knows what the fuck you did or are doing now Sybil. Go smoke a bowl, you make even less sense straight then you did fucked up.
It's sad your cognitive dissonance problem is so severe you can't even engage in a conversation :(
I won't let them get away with what they've done to you slefty.
Queshank
Ok Sybil.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 22:27:06 GMT
I don't think the current iteration is a problem either, not if the implication is a few tweaks to the current iteration would end the problem. It's my argument that "The Problem" is rooted in the nature of people living together and can be made worse or better but never solved. Ok I choose "better". Good. Me too.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 22:32:15 GMT
That's like the ancaps who want to do away with government and collapse politics into market exchange. Little do they know, politics would simply return in a new, most likely worse form. The same is true of this idea about doing away with political parties.
Is it? Is it just like your prior set of pre packaged beliefs I used to argue against using this exact same argument? Exactly.
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 22:36:49 GMT
Change is good we just have to realistic about the situation and what we can accomplish. This notion that political parties themselves are the problem is misguided and when you start from misguided premises, even well-intentioned people make matters worse.
Said every sycophant of the ruling elite ever.
Queshank
More accurately, said every classical liberal.
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 23:29:07 GMT
Is it? Is it just like your prior set of pre packaged beliefs I used to argue against using this exact same argument? Exactly. There's no room for in between? Our founders were all ancaps? Queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 23:29:28 GMT
Said every sycophant of the ruling elite ever.
Queshank
More accurately, said every classical liberal.
Our founders were ancaps? Anti classical liberal?
Queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 23:30:27 GMT
It's sad your cognitive dissonance problem is so severe you can't even engage in a conversation
I won't let them get away with what they've done to you slefty.
Queshank
Ok Sybil.
It's sad you can't meet the lowest bar of an educated mind and consider multiple viewpoints. This is what leftism as a religion has done to people like you.
Queshank
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