thor
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Posts: 17,608
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Post by thor on Apr 29, 2024 11:34:19 GMT
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 13:29:35 GMT
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Post by rabbitreborn on Apr 29, 2024 13:43:15 GMT
To help the poor. And stop climate change. And end racism. |
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freonbale
Legend
Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,780
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Post by freonbale on Apr 29, 2024 15:07:11 GMT
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 15:34:40 GMT
Why? For the parts? For the Ukraine? |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump=Chump
Posts: 39,224
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Post by Odysseus on Apr 29, 2024 16:33:44 GMT
Perhaps because Ukraine techs are more familiar with the older Russian designs than they would be with the newer US designs?
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freonbale
Legend
Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,780
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Post by freonbale on Apr 29, 2024 17:04:24 GMT
Why? For the parts? For the Ukraine? Hmm, just off the top of my head, to deny other countries those parts, or in negotiations, to leverage them. To fly them against our own pilots in training exercises (many countries, like NK, still fly those), and/or to understand the technology level of those designs to determine exploits and standards. This is just the short list, I am sure there are many other reasons. And what a bargain, at $20k each! Freon |
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demos
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Posts: 8,044
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Post by demos on Apr 29, 2024 17:11:15 GMT
Why? For the parts? For the Ukraine? Parts and decoys for Ukraine. The planes were being auctioned off and the US bought 81 of them:
Also from the Kyiv Post:
"The offer for sale pointed out that the aircraft were in an unusable condition, their modernization was considered economically impractical, and their utility as a source for spare parts was limited." |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 17:40:16 GMT
Why? For the parts? For the Ukraine? Hmm, just off the top of my head, to deny other countries those parts, or in negotiations, to leverage them. To fly them against our own pilots in training exercises (many countries, like NK, still fly those), and/or to understand the technology level of those designs to determine exploits and standards. This is just the short list, I am sure there are many other reasons. And what a bargain, at $20k each! Freon I would think they would have already reverse engineered any of those models. They’re pretty old. But your other reasons could be legit. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 17:40:45 GMT
Why? For the parts? For the Ukraine? Parts and decoys for Ukraine. The planes were being auctioned off and the US bought 81 of them:
Also from the Kyiv Post:
"The offer for sale pointed out that the aircraft were in an unusable condition, their modernization was considered economically impractical, and their utility as a source for spare parts was limited." Worth it, do you think? |
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,419
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Post by petep on Apr 29, 2024 17:47:49 GMT
Why? For the parts? For the Ukraine? Hmm, just off the top of my head, to deny other countries those parts, or in negotiations, to leverage them. To fly them against our own pilots in training exercises (many countries, like NK, still fly those), and/or to understand the technology level of those designs to determine exploits and standards. This is just the short list, I am sure there are many other reasons. And what a bargain, at $20k each! Freon The article clearly states they are unusable. |
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demos
Legend
Posts: 8,044
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Post by demos on Apr 29, 2024 18:22:07 GMT
For Ukraine? Probably not.
Worth it for Kazakhstan though.
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Post by archie on Apr 30, 2024 15:21:58 GMT
When I was 19 I remember a WW2 plane for sale at an airport. I forget the model. It was two place. Pilot in front and machine gunner in back. It was used to bomb targets and enemy tanks on the ground.
I had just flown to that airport with my instructor. I was learning to navigate. My instructor told me not to buy it. He said it burned about 70 gallons of gas an hour.
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Post by limey² on Apr 30, 2024 17:39:30 GMT
To help the poor. And stop climate change. And end racism. For Democracy. ...and to irritate the Russians, obvs. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Apr 30, 2024 18:13:09 GMT
To help the poor. And stop climate change. And end racism. For Democracy. ...and to irritate the Russians, obvs. Democracy the way you want it is 3-fold too much. Democracy the way it is right now (at least in the USA) is 5% of what it should be. What remains is a system of two powerful oligarchies that we get to occasionally choose between in democratic fashion. Even those we elect are, in many ways, not even the ones in control of the state's levers of power. Perhaps a very clear example is when Trump tried to pull troops back from Syria and was lied to by members of the permanent state that troop numbers were decreasing, and the lie was praised by corporate media. www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-coup-national-security/Hooray Sacred Democracy!! |
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Post by limey² on Apr 30, 2024 19:19:20 GMT
For Democracy. ...and to irritate the Russians, obvs. Democracy the way you want it is 3-fold too much. Democracy the way it is right now (at least in the USA) is 5% of what it should be. What remains is a system of two powerful oligarchies that we get to occasionally choose between in democratic fashion. Even those we elect are, in many ways, not even the ones in control of the state's levers of power. Perhaps a very clear example is when Trump tried to pull troops back from Syria and was lied to by members of the permanent state that troop numbers were decreasing, and the lie was praised by corporate media. www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-coup-national-security/Hooray Sacred Democracy!! Democracy is a shitty way to manage almost any size of group, for almost any set of decisions. There are, currently, no better ones available, cerainly at the level of nations. Which is, let's be frank, a bit of a downer. UK is possibly going to transition to a PR system after our next election, which might help a bit, at least our legislature would begin to partially reflect the policy positions peopke vote for, which it certainly doesn't now. Not sure the improvement will be transformational.... |
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,419
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Post by petep on Apr 30, 2024 19:39:56 GMT
Democracy the way you want it is 3-fold too much. Democracy the way it is right now (at least in the USA) is 5% of what it should be. What remains is a system of two powerful oligarchies that we get to occasionally choose between in democratic fashion. Even those we elect are, in many ways, not even the ones in control of the state's levers of power. Perhaps a very clear example is when Trump tried to pull troops back from Syria and was lied to by members of the permanent state that troop numbers were decreasing, and the lie was praised by corporate media. www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-coup-national-security/Hooray Sacred Democracy!! Democracy is a shitty way to manage almost any size of group, for almost any set of decisions. There are, currently, no better ones available, cerainly at the level of nations. Which is, let's be frank, a bit of a downer. UK is possibly going to transition to a PR system after our next election, which might help a bit, at least our legislature would begin to partially reflect the policy positions peopke vote for, which it certainly doesn't now. Not sure the improvement will be transformational.... I’ve often argued this here. Our system of funding govt projects is so antiquated. First budgets should be fixed. Second politicians submit all possible projects and funding required. Politicians or parties defend and promote their package. Much like go fund me, voters are allocated an amount and they decide how to allocate their taxpayer dollars to which projects. Removed the lobbysists and corruption in funding. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 30, 2024 20:20:11 GMT
Democracy the way you want it is 3-fold too much. Democracy the way it is right now (at least in the USA) is 5% of what it should be. What remains is a system of two powerful oligarchies that we get to occasionally choose between in democratic fashion. Even those we elect are, in many ways, not even the ones in control of the state's levers of power. Perhaps a very clear example is when Trump tried to pull troops back from Syria and was lied to by members of the permanent state that troop numbers were decreasing, and the lie was praised by corporate media. www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-coup-national-security/Hooray Sacred Democracy!! Democracy is a shitty way to manage almost any size of group, for almost any set of decisions. There are, currently, no better ones available, cerainly at the level of nations. Which is, let's be frank, a bit of a downer. UK is possibly going to transition to a PR system after our next election, which might help a bit, at least our legislature would begin to partially reflect the policy positions peopke vote for, which it certainly doesn't now. Not sure the improvement will be transformational.... What's a "PR system"? |
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Post by limey² on Apr 30, 2024 20:25:29 GMT
I'd make it 1 day in prison for every £/$ a politician receives from any source other than salary, and 2 days for every penny/cent offered by an individual, or the CEO & main shareholder & head of legal of any organisation offering such to a politician.
This to apply 5 years beyond their term.
Pay politicians serious money, and a 7 figure severence, so talented people want to do it.
10 years for CEO, main shareholder, and head of legal in any news organisation that lies about a candidate for election.
Assets frozen & sanctions if guilty entities are foreign.
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Post by limey² on Apr 30, 2024 20:26:43 GMT
Democracy is a shitty way to manage almost any size of group, for almost any set of decisions. There are, currently, no better ones available, cerainly at the level of nations. Which is, let's be frank, a bit of a downer. UK is possibly going to transition to a PR system after our next election, which might help a bit, at least our legislature would begin to partially reflect the policy positions peopke vote for, which it certainly doesn't now. Not sure the improvement will be transformational.... What's a "PR system"? Proportional Representation. Only UK, US, India & Belorus have FPTP systems. Every other democracy has PR. |
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