sokpupet
Legend
Go Dark Brandon!
Posts: 5,146
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Post by sokpupet on Apr 23, 2024 1:24:18 GMT
Over regulation of a drug (alcohol) is what created organized crime in the US. They had it made for thirteen years or so. A real life example of this type of over regulation exists here in TN. Apparently there is a state law that says ALL persons purchasing alcohol must provide a "valid" ID proving your age. I keep my drivers license in the glove box of my car along with my insurance and registration cards. The only ID I carry in my wallet is my old military ID. It even has my thumb prints on the back of it. But it expired in January 81 (the point I was no longer in the inactive reserve). I use this ID to vote with here. But because it's "expired" I can't use it to buy beer. The first time I was confronted on this, I thought it was the damn dumbest thing I'd ever heard...I even said to the clerk "yeah, but that doesn't change how old I am." I now go a little more than a mile down the road to VA to buy beer. They don't even ask for an ID. I've thought of challenging this TN thing as being a violation of the constitutional amendment about equal protection under the law but probably won't. The thought of having to actually deal with such stupidity for any length of time makes me ass drag. Back in the day, my younger brother went to the sound pier to buy some beer. He was underage. My older brother said "I've got to see this!" They came back with my older brother shaking his head. Someone asked, "did they let him?" My older brother said "hell yea and they took his check!" I think he was 14. He always worked and yes, he has a checking account.
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,191
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Post by petep on Apr 23, 2024 1:44:31 GMT
With drugs. You want to play roulette and do heroine with open border cartel /China fentanyl. Have at it. But don’t ask taxpayers for a dime. Well, that's part of the thing...the high addictiveness of some drugs, especially when pushed on minor and other vulnerable people... Makes one wonder why some want open borders. Drugs. Child trafficking. It’s intentional.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 10,265
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Post by bama beau on Apr 23, 2024 1:51:35 GMT
Well, that's part of the thing...the high addictiveness of some drugs, especially when pushed on minor and other vulnerable people... Makes one wonder why some want open borders. Drugs. Child trafficking. It’s intentional. How fvcked up does your belief system or ideology have to be if it requires you to believe that your political opponents favor illegal drug and child trafficking, you clueless lying hypocrite?
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thor
Legend
Posts: 17,428
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Post by thor on Apr 23, 2024 2:48:13 GMT
Makes one wonder why some want open borders. Drugs. Child trafficking. It’s intentional. How fvcked up does your belief system or ideology have to be if it requires you to believe that your political opponents favor illegal drug and child trafficking, you clueless lying hypocrite? PP supports Trump's sexual abuse of E, Jean Carroll - he thinks such behavior is 'Presidential', as do many of these cretins. Tells you all you need to know about him.
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RWB
Legend
Posts: 11,772
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Post by RWB on Apr 23, 2024 3:12:55 GMT
How fvcked up does your belief system or ideology have to be if it requires you to believe that your political opponents favor illegal drug and child trafficking, you clueless lying hypocrite? PP supports Trump's sexual abuse of E, Jean Carroll - he thinks such behavior is 'Presidential', as do many of these cretins. Tells you all you need to know about him. the little brain damaged retarded Cuck Thor supports open borders illegal drug and child trafficking. Tells you all you need to know about him.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump=Chump
Posts: 39,090
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Post by Odysseus on Apr 23, 2024 3:20:48 GMT
There have historically been political tendencies towards the illegality of recreation drug use. I wonder how those tendencies would be represented here.
Might I suggest another category?
That would be "Middle of the Road"...
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 23, 2024 11:50:31 GMT
There have historically been political tendencies towards the illegality of recreation drug use. I wonder how those tendencies would be represented here.
Might I suggest another category?
That would be "Middle of the Road"...
A poll with 100 options isn’t helpful.
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,191
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Post by petep on Apr 23, 2024 12:01:31 GMT
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Post by MojoJojo on Apr 23, 2024 12:06:47 GMT
"Biden's child trafficking crisis".
That's not a loaded headline designed for clicks!
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,191
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Post by petep on Apr 23, 2024 17:19:05 GMT
"Biden's child trafficking crisis". That's not a loaded headline designed for clicks! Unfortunately Biden is actually responsible for the border and child trafficking has skyrocketed under his catch and release policies. Brandon Judd head of the border agents has stated repeatedly what a failure Biden’s policies have been. And the result has been cartels pushing more drugs across the border and child trafficking skyrocketing.
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Fiddler
Legend
Wasted again ..
Posts: 13,779
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Post by Fiddler on Apr 23, 2024 17:33:57 GMT
"Biden's child trafficking crisis". That's not a loaded headline designed for clicks! Unfortunately Biden is actually responsible for the border and child trafficking has skyrocketed under his catch and release policies. Brandon Judd head of the border agents has stated repeatedly what a failure Biden’s policies have been. And the result has been cartels pushing more drugs across the border and child trafficking skyrocketing. The Brandon Judd that fully supported the recent bipartisan border bill that Trump nixed so he could run on the border issue.. That Brandon Judd..? Dude.. You're so far up Trump's ass that you can shake hands with Marjorie Taylor Greene..
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Post by greebnurt on Apr 23, 2024 18:02:17 GMT
Well, that's part of the thing...the high addictiveness of some drugs, especially when pushed on minor and other vulnerable people... Makes one wonder why some want open borders. Drugs. Child trafficking. It’s intentional. You are such a fucking tool.
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,191
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Post by petep on Apr 23, 2024 18:08:25 GMT
Unfortunately Biden is actually responsible for the border and child trafficking has skyrocketed under his catch and release policies. Brandon Judd head of the border agents has stated repeatedly what a failure Biden’s policies have been. And the result has been cartels pushing more drugs across the border and child trafficking skyrocketing. The Brandon Judd that fully supported the recent bipartisan border bill that Trump nixed so he could run on the border issue.. That Brandon Judd..? Dude.. You're so far up Trump's ass that you can shake hands with Marjorie Taylor Greene.. What position in govt does trump hold that he was able to nix a bill
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demos
Legend
Posts: 8,013
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Post by demos on Apr 23, 2024 18:12:47 GMT
Wow, this one's hard, but a good question, Mercy. I think the easiest approach is about weighing positives and negatives. Positives. Freedom to do as we want. Are there any others? Negatives. Crime associated with obtaining drugs. Abuse of drugs, resulting in harm or death to others (from drunk driving to spousal abuse). Long-term health problems that increase overall healthcare costs. Drug addiction creating homeless and/or non-contributing citizens. Drugs that are impure, causing harm or death.So anyone is welcome to add to my lists, but it seems the negatives FAR outweigh the positives, and yet Freedom is HUGELY important. Is it more important than the negatives? My personal view is no, and therefore, recreational drugs SHOULD be regulated. The next question, is to what degree should they be regulated, and in what ways. And that's even more complicated. My feeling is that in the US, there is an adequate balance between the regulation and Freedom, especially now that marijuana is legal in most modern states. Another question might be, should more drugs be considered recreational. I would say, in general, no, but it's really a case-by-case question. Freon How much of that is the result of drugs being criminalized?
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freonbale
Legend
Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,595
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Post by freonbale on Apr 23, 2024 18:18:36 GMT
Wow, this one's hard, but a good question, Mercy. I think the easiest approach is about weighing positives and negatives. Positives. Freedom to do as we want. Are there any others? Negatives. Crime associated with obtaining drugs. Abuse of drugs, resulting in harm or death to others (from drunk driving to spousal abuse). Long-term health problems that increase overall healthcare costs. Drug addiction creating homeless and/or non-contributing citizens. Drugs that are impure, causing harm or death.So anyone is welcome to add to my lists, but it seems the negatives FAR outweigh the positives, and yet Freedom is HUGELY important. Is it more important than the negatives? My personal view is no, and therefore, recreational drugs SHOULD be regulated. The next question, is to what degree should they be regulated, and in what ways. And that's even more complicated. My feeling is that in the US, there is an adequate balance between the regulation and Freedom, especially now that marijuana is legal in most modern states. Another question might be, should more drugs be considered recreational. I would say, in general, no, but it's really a case-by-case question. Freon How much of that is the result of drugs being criminalized? Chicken and egg problem. Which came first? Historically, and I mean going back to ancient history, drug abuse has been a known human problem. So the question you are asking, is if the existing problem is made worse by criminalization. I don't know. I cannot even imagine the data needed to definitely say yes or no. Do you? Freon
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 23, 2024 18:29:48 GMT
How much of that is the result of drugs being criminalized? Chicken and egg problem. Which came first? Historically, and I mean going back to ancient history, drug abuse has been a known human problem. So the question you are asking, is if the existing problem is made worse by criminalization. I don't know. I cannot even imagine the data needed to definitely say yes or no. Do you? Freon Good question. A comparable might be the betel nut in the Philippines which, to my knowledge, is not regulated (at least, not practically in the north). So they don't have a specific crime problem dealing with that mildly narcotic and addictive substance. But the addictive problems do cause problems. So...yeah, criminalizing it might make the problem worse, but without any regulation, it's still a problem.
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demos
Legend
Posts: 8,013
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Post by demos on Apr 23, 2024 18:49:29 GMT
Chicken and egg problem. Which came first? Historically, and I mean going back to ancient history, drug abuse has been a known human problem. So the question you are asking, is if the existing problem is made worse by criminalization. I don't know. I cannot even imagine the data needed to definitely say yes or no. Do you? Freon I think criminalization has definitely made things worse.
Prohibition was a good example of that. Was alcohol abuse a problem? Sure. Did Prohibition make it better or worse? I think you can make that case that it made it worse over the long run:
We find that alcohol consumption fell sharply at the beginning of Prohibition, to approximately 30 percent of its pre-Prohibition level. During the next several years, however, alcohol consumption increased sharply, to about 60-70 percent of its pre-Prohibition level. ( Source)
Putting people in jail for possession is not addressing addiction; it makes it worse (drugs are smuggled into prisons/jails). That's why diversion programs and drug courts have been created to send people into rehabilitation programs instead of jailing them for possession.
Regarding impurities, MDMA (ecstasy) would be a good one to look at. Prior to 1985, it was legal and used for therapeutic purposes. After 1985 - when it became a Schedule 1 drug (along with heroin and marijuana) - you see more and more impurities in the drug people were buying on the street.
Overall, our drug schedules are completely out of whack and don't make a lot of sense. For example, cocaine is a schedule 2 drug meaning it has a legitimate medical use (as an anesthetic). But marijuana is schedule 1 - the same schedule as heroin. Same with MDMA and other hallucinogenics which more and more studies are finding have medical benefits, especially treating PTSD. These drugs are definitely not more dangerous than cocaine. Not as dangerous as heroin, especially in a pure, unadulterated form.
The whole regulatory structure of drugs and the criminalization of drug use needs a complete overhaul.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 23, 2024 19:11:14 GMT
Chicken and egg problem. Which came first? Historically, and I mean going back to ancient history, drug abuse has been a known human problem. So the question you are asking, is if the existing problem is made worse by criminalization. I don't know. I cannot even imagine the data needed to definitely say yes or no. Do you? Freon
The whole regulatory structure of drugs and the criminalization of drug use needs a complete overhaul.
What would you recommend?
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Post by greebnurt on Apr 23, 2024 19:12:50 GMT
How much of that is the result of drugs being criminalized? Chicken and egg problem. Which came first? Historically, and I mean going back to ancient history, drug abuse has been a known human problem. So the question you are asking, is if the existing problem is made worse by criminalization. I don't know. I cannot even imagine the data needed to definitely say yes or no. Do you? Freon The egg came first.
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demos
Legend
Posts: 8,013
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Post by demos on Apr 23, 2024 19:19:31 GMT
What would you recommend? Something based on reality.
Marijuana does not belong in the same schedule as heroin. For starters, it has legitimate medical uses. And as a recreational drug, it also doesn't belong there either.
Same with many hallucinogenics. LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, peyote, etc. all have legitimate medical uses. Obviously some regulation is necessary for those (if you've ever seen anyone on a bad trip, you know).
And can you really criminalize doing a drug (psilocybin) that you can walk out into a pasture and find under a cow pattie?
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