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Hospital
Apr 3, 2024 22:47:15 GMT
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 3, 2024 22:47:15 GMT
Limey is urbane, he'll never tell you how he feels. Neither does he need defence from someone else for prayers. I wasn't defending him.
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petep
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Hospital
Apr 3, 2024 22:53:04 GMT
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Post by petep on Apr 3, 2024 22:53:04 GMT
Can we all just simply say best wishes to limey on this particular thread and wish him the best.
Let’s debate the other crap elsewhere.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 1:50:59 GMT
Your entire point is based on the premise of "getting what you want" (e.g., power failures, etc.). Saying it louder and more doesn't change what I said. The point of prayer is to align ourselves with God in relationship. There are times (I've seen them) where prayers are miraculously answered. But it's not ultimately about "getting what we want."
Fascinating, so what are you praying for Limey for? What's the request? What does that communication look like?
Obviously your beliefs to not match up to the majority of Christians.
"Your kingdom come, your will be done..."
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Hospital
Apr 4, 2024 5:58:30 GMT
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Post by limey² on Apr 4, 2024 5:58:30 GMT
Your entire point is based on the premise of "getting what you want" (e.g., power failures, etc.). Saying it louder and more doesn't change what I said. The point of prayer is to align ourselves with God in relationship. There are times (I've seen them) where prayers are miraculously answered. But it's not ultimately about "getting what we want."
Fascinating, so what are you praying for Limey for? What's the request? What does that communication look like?
Obviously your beliefs to not match up to the majority of Christians.
If it's for the guy in the next room to snore so loudly I need noise-cancelling headpho es, call the Archbishop- it's working.
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 4, 2024 6:51:03 GMT
Fascinating, so what are you praying for Limey for? What's the request? What does that communication look like?
Obviously your beliefs to not match up to the majority of Christians.
"Your kingdom come, your will be done..." So you're telling god to do... whatever he wants... just in case he was about to do... something else? That seems... bizarre.
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Post by atreyu on Apr 4, 2024 11:54:33 GMT
Fascinating, so what are you praying for Limey for? What's the request? What does that communication look like?
Obviously your beliefs to not match up to the majority of Christians.
If it's for the guy in the next room to snore so loudly I need noise-cancelling headpho es, call the Archbishop- it's working.
LOL, well, god's will be done....
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 4, 2024 15:00:46 GMT
"Your kingdom come, your will be done..." So you're telling god to do... whatever he wants... just in case he was about to do... something else? That seems... bizarre. Bizarre is coming here complaining about someone saying they are praying for someone as if that is some awful breech of decorum while you almost do nothing else on here other than throw vulgar insults around.
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Post by limey² on Apr 4, 2024 15:13:51 GMT
So you're telling god to do... whatever he wants... just in case he was about to do... something else? That seems... bizarre. Bizarre is coming here complaining about someone saying they are praying for someone as if that is some awful breech of decorum while you almost do nothing else on here other than throw vulgar insults around. It's what LNF is all about.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 15:46:13 GMT
"Your kingdom come, your will be done..." So you're telling god to do... whatever he wants... just in case he was about to do... something else? That seems... bizarre. You're close...so very close. The biggest purpose of prayer is to align ourselves with God's purpose. I do believe at some level, there is a part of the "work of prayer" that "gets things done," but it starts with aligning ourselves. Not just petitioning for "what we want."
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 15:47:09 GMT
Fascinating, so what are you praying for Limey for? What's the request? What does that communication look like?
Obviously your beliefs to not match up to the majority of Christians.
If it's for the guy in the next room to snore so loudly I need noise-cancelling headpho es, call the Archbishop- it's working. I'll see what I can do...😉
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Apr 4, 2024 16:12:36 GMT
So you're telling god to do... whatever he wants... just in case he was about to do... something else? That seems... bizarre. You're close...so very close. The biggest purpose of prayer is to align ourselves with God's purpose. I do believe at some level, there is a part of the "work of prayer" that "gets things done," but it starts with aligning ourselves. Not just petitioning for "what we want." How do you know what the purpose of prayer is? Your explanation of its purpose sounds like an opinion to me. Is there consensus on what the purpose of prayer is? Or in the end, is it just you deciding for yourself, and then acting accordingly. Freon
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Apr 4, 2024 16:23:06 GMT
The study was explored in Dawkins's "God Delusion". The negative results were modest but measurable. Iirc the hypotheses was that, amongst the faithful, individuals who were, as part of the study, told they were being prayed for thought "shit! This must be serious!" and the anxiety affected outcome. Plausible. Ok Well atryeu stated it as a fact. You are saying it’s a hypothesis as to why the different outcomes You’d have to add a caveat. If one believes in god etc and someone says I’m praying for you, then only those people should be affected, have anxiety. If one is an atheist and someone said they are praying for you, it should have the same impact as saying I’ll drop a pebble in the toilet for you. Now what happens when a person who believes in one deity, prays for someone who believes in a different, or opposing deity? You are assuming the opposite of the faithful, is the atheist (which shows you don't understand that atheism requires its own faith to believe), but the opposite could very well be a competing theism. Freon
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petep
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Post by petep on Apr 4, 2024 16:37:38 GMT
Ok Well atryeu stated it as a fact. You are saying it’s a hypothesis as to why the different outcomes You’d have to add a caveat. If one believes in god etc and someone says I’m praying for you, then only those people should be affected, have anxiety. If one is an atheist and someone said they are praying for you, it should have the same impact as saying I’ll drop a pebble in the toilet for you. Now what happens when a person who believes in one deity, prays for someone who believes in a different, or opposing deity? You are assuming the opposite of the faithful, is the atheist (which shows you don't understand that atheism requires its own faith to believe), but the opposite could very well be a competing theism. Freon I once had a Jewish friend and Muslim friend visit me at the same time when I was in the hospital getting chemo. They each said they say a prayer for me to their respective dieties. I thanked them for their thoughts. And at the time 3 months into chemo and 125 pounds I’d take whatever I could get. Even an atheist saying hope you start feeling better. Why would I care what someone else thinks. I’d appreciate the sentiment.
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Post by atreyu on Apr 4, 2024 16:40:16 GMT
Ok Well atryeu stated it as a fact. You are saying it’s a hypothesis as to why the different outcomes You’d have to add a caveat. If one believes in god etc and someone says I’m praying for you, then only those people should be affected, have anxiety. If one is an atheist and someone said they are praying for you, it should have the same impact as saying I’ll drop a pebble in the toilet for you. Now what happens when a person who believes in one deity, prays for someone who believes in a different, or opposing deity? You are assuming the opposite of the faithful, is the atheist (which shows you don't understand that atheism requires its own faith to believe), but the opposite could very well be a competing theism. Freon
Atheism requires no faith.
A baby is an atheist. They don't even have a concept of faith.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 16:46:07 GMT
You're close...so very close. The biggest purpose of prayer is to align ourselves with God's purpose. I do believe at some level, there is a part of the "work of prayer" that "gets things done," but it starts with aligning ourselves. Not just petitioning for "what we want." How do you know what the purpose of prayer is? Your explanation of its purpose sounds like an opinion to me. Is there consensus on what the purpose of prayer is? Or in the end, is it just you deciding for yourself, and then acting accordingly. Freon Do you think I just "made it up"? Just an opinion borne on my imagination? Like...do you really think that?
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 16:47:01 GMT
Now what happens when a person who believes in one deity, prays for someone who believes in a different, or opposing deity? You are assuming the opposite of the faithful, is the atheist (which shows you don't understand that atheism requires its own faith to believe), but the opposite could very well be a competing theism. Freon
Atheism requires no faith.
A baby is an atheist. They don't even have a concept of faith.
Atheism requires a kind of faith. Do you have no faith whatsoever? If not, why would you bother posting on this forum?
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Post by atreyu on Apr 4, 2024 16:49:31 GMT
Atheism requires no faith.
A baby is an atheist. They don't even have a concept of faith.
Atheism requires a kind of faith. Do you have no faith whatsoever? If not, why would you bother posting on this forum?
What kind? What do I need faith to post on a forum?
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Apr 4, 2024 16:54:46 GMT
Now what happens when a person who believes in one deity, prays for someone who believes in a different, or opposing deity? You are assuming the opposite of the faithful, is the atheist (which shows you don't understand that atheism requires its own faith to believe), but the opposite could very well be a competing theism. Freon I once had a Jewish friend and Muslim friend visit me at the same time when I was in the hospital getting chemo. They each said they say a prayer for me to their respective dieties. I thanked them for their thoughts. And at the time 3 months into chemo and 125 pounds I’d take whatever I could get. Even an atheist saying hope you start feeling better. Why would I care what someone else thinks. I’d appreciate the sentiment. Then the question for you in particular would be, why do you assume everyone looks at prayer and its sentiment the same way you do? It seems MUCH more plausible, that there would be different sentiments by the countless people out there on this particular topic. It seems arrogant and selfish to me, to project your own views on others, and expect them to receive it the way you intended, purely because you think they should see the world the way you do. Freon
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 16:54:57 GMT
Atheism requires a kind of faith. Do you have no faith whatsoever? If not, why would you bother posting on this forum?
What kind? What do I need faith to post on a forum?
You have an unprovable foundational belief that posting here will: - Be seen and read (and understood, for that matter)
- Be engaged with (unless you are presuming to have the last word on the matter)
- Make some kind of difference or have some kind of impact.
Else, why do it?
"Faith" does not mean "unprovable/irrational belief in the supernatural."
I'm pretty sure that the U.S. Marines don't go into battle under the mantra of "maintain an irrational belief in the supernatural" (semper fi).
Everybody has faith. Without it, you wouldn't get up in the morning, or eat, or get an education, or read a book, or pursue a career, or buy a house...or post something on an online forum. Faith is a commitment demonstrated by a course of action—an allegiance to a person or ideal. The concept is not "inherently religious"; that's an erroneous Enlightenment construct that posited "faith" against "reason."
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 4, 2024 16:55:49 GMT
I once had a Jewish friend and Muslim friend visit me at the same time when I was in the hospital getting chemo. They each said they say a prayer for me to their respective dieties. I thanked them for their thoughts. And at the time 3 months into chemo and 125 pounds I’d take whatever I could get. Even an atheist saying hope you start feeling better. Why would I care what someone else thinks. I’d appreciate the sentiment. Then the question for you in particular would be, why do you assume everyone looks at prayer and its sentiment the same way you do? Freon That question is irrelevant to his post. For him to appreciate the sentiment does require the assumption that "everyone looks at prayer and its sentiment they same way he does."
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