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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 27, 2024 2:13:28 GMT
Not even close and no cigar. They waited 90 years or so to honor veterans? That's when the final boost in building Confederate monuments occurred, just when the civil rights movement was picking up steam. Of course they didn't mention slavery or segregation, they weren't that stupid.: "The pursuit of white cultural unity through Confederate commemoration went hand-in-hand with the promotion of white supremacy. The Confederate monuments themselves were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication. For instance, at the 1913 dedication of an on-campus monument honoring University of North Carolina students who fought for the Confederacy, white industrialist Julian Carr unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery." "During the dedication speech, Carr praised Confederate soldiers not just for their wartime valor but also for their defense “of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years after the war” when “their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South.” The “four years after the war” was a clear reference to the period in which the Ku Klux Klan, a white paramilitary organization terrorized blacks and white Republicans who threatened the traditional white hierarchy in the state. Then he boasted that “one hundred yards from where we stand” — and within months of Lee’s 1865 surrender — “I horse whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds because she had maligned and insulted a Southern lady.” "Carr admittedly was uncommonly explicit about conflating Confederate memorialization with white supremacy, but Southern memorials inherently celebrated the slave South and white power along with the heroism of Confederate soldiers." It was pulled down after the reading of the Declaration of Independence in NYC, not in the middle of the war. George III was a tyrant, just like white supremacists. Cromwell was an imperialist killer who doesn't deserve a statue, but if the limeys want a statue that's up to them. They named a town after that turd. Yep, and around the same time he gave that speech, though naming the town after him probably had more to do with him being a wealthy man who had businesses in that place. In recent years his name has been excised in some places.
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Post by archie on Feb 27, 2024 3:16:09 GMT
The history and statues of the war between the north and south are part of American history. It was about more than just slavery. But the freedom of the slaves became a very important part of free America. By hiding the history of the war, people may not learn or care to remember that was when the black race started receiving their total freedom. And some people if they don’t know the history may wonder why the hell black people live here. There are racists of all kinds. You can bet the chinses don’t like the white race or any other race for that matter. Leave the statues alone, teach the history in grammar school, and keep doing away with slavery. Destroy history, and even today some will be wanting one race or the other to be second place. There are still many ignorant people living in this country. And they are inviting a lot more ignorant people in over an open border. Many racists and many murderers, thieves, woman killers and child molesters. And what race are they going to make look bad? We have immigration laws to protect all Americans. And all races of good people are invited. All bad of all races should be not allowed in.
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 27, 2024 6:14:48 GMT
Well, you don't get a lot of information from statues. If a statue of Robert E. Lee is taken down, that hardly means he disappears from history. There are still all kinds of books and other materials that give more info about Lee than a statue. I would wait until middle school and high school to teach students about the Civil War.
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petep
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Post by petep on Feb 27, 2024 13:54:57 GMT
Well, you don't get a lot of information from statues. If a statue of Robert E. Lee is taken down, that hardly means he disappears from history. There are still all kinds of books and other materials that give more info about Lee than a statue. I would wait until middle school and high school to teach students about the Civil War. Agree. Of course we should teach grade k white kids they are racist. That’s appropriate.
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Post by runswithscissors on Feb 27, 2024 15:03:57 GMT
Well, you don't get a lot of information from statues. If a statue of Robert E. Lee is taken down, that hardly means he disappears from history. There are still all kinds of books and other materials that give more info about Lee than a statue. I would wait until middle school and high school to teach students about the Civil War. The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's.
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 27, 2024 15:31:31 GMT
Good golly, how did you get this stupid? Did liberals do this damage to you?
So, rather than the permanent markings on the memorial or the full committee of citizens that DID NOT make the monument about anything but honoring a soldier IN A UNIFORM, idiots like this one concentrate on one paragraph of an invited politician's speech made in minutes on one day.
I imagine that someone must have also farted loudly during that ceremony, so by your retarded logic, that memorial therefore must be forever about the flatulence that occurred that day rather than what the monument being dedicated ACTUALLY says or what is depicted, right? Yes, you DO sound that stupid and worse.
You just make shit up, don't you? What a joke; you pulled the same nonsense on the Fort Sumter thread. You let you imagination run wild like a child. Southerners didn't put anything about slavery or white supremacy on the monuments because the monuments had nothing to do with that and were not about those things at all. But your narrative goes to shit once again if you accept the truth of that fact. Moreover, YOU look like a racist for pretending these statues had anything to do with race at all.
Ninety years? Are you nuts? Ninety years was 1955! The majority of the monuments were built from the 1880s to the 1920s, when many of the old living Confederates were being remembered by their local communities.
When do you think that the Revolutionary War started? The war was ongoing in July 1776! It actually all started in 1775, so that George III statue was torn down during a time of war. And it was melted down for bullets.
Learn your history, dumbass.
Lincoln was the f*cking tyrant, not the Confederates.
And despite your opinion of Cromwell, the statue still stands because the UK has the integrity to realize that sometimes the opposition is right, just as the Confederates were right.
Carr was more of a businessman than a politician and was also a Civil War vet, so he knew what he was talking about. I doubt his remarks about white supremacy were received with boos. Of course they didn't put anything about white supremacy on the monuments, they didn't need to. The message was quite obvious. Nothing made up, this is just what happened. His audience were the racists, not me. There was a resurgence of Confederate monuments and iconography starting in the 1950s, just at the same time civil rights agitation was coming to the fore. Just coincidence, no doubt. 1776 was at the beginning of the war, not the middle. I know my history, which is different from rancid Lost Cause nonsense. Slaveholders were tyrants, not Lincoln. Probably it still stands because limeys don't care that Cromwell was a war criminal, just like Columbus statues still stand here despite the fact he was a mass murderer. Only a racist sees white supremacy in any of those monuments and statues. Only a racist sees "obvious" hidden messages from a granite pillar that says absolutely nothing about race or anything associated with white supremacy.
If Biden made a speech at a Black History Month event and mentioned abortion or Ukraine or immigration, by your twisted logic, we must forever assume that Black History Month is really just about abortion or Ukraine or immigration instead of black history.
No, it's pretty stupid to lift something out of one speech and pervert the meaning of the event itself. On any other subject, most folks would be embarrassed to be triggered by something in one speech or in one document, but on the subject of the Southern Confederacy, those that hate the South prefer being stupid rather than objective. You're not being objective.
You don't know history at all, nor the meanings of words and phrases. Stand back, folks....we have a literalist in our midst and he's HolyMoly. He took the phrase "in the middle of" as literally meaning half way through. He's like a child, just learning what phrases mean. Here you go, youngling: in the middle of idiom : while (something) is happening or being done : during (something)
Not many monuments went up in the 1950s compared to the earlier times, and the iconography was around a lot longer. Southern soldiers in the U.S. military carried Confederate Battle Flags into battle in every war from the Spanish-American to Korea. And only a racist fails to notice that the centennial of the War Between the States is just around the corner in the 1950s
And here's your lack of perspective on display. Southerners who owned slaves were engaging in an evil, but still a legal activity. Calling Southern slaveowners "tyrants" is akin to calling abortionists "tyrants". Nonsensical lie. Lincoln on the other hand, violated the Constitution repeatedly, jailed opponents at will, committed terrorism against Southern civilians, and was the aggressor/conqueror throughout the war. And Lincoln wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, making it clear that he didn't think blacks and whites should intermingle in American society.
As far as Cromwell, was he any more a war criminal than the bloody royals that he replaced? Not hardly.
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 27, 2024 15:57:09 GMT
Well, you don't get a lot of information from statues. If a statue of Robert E. Lee is taken down, that hardly means he disappears from history. There are still all kinds of books and other materials that give more info about Lee than a statue. I would wait until middle school and high school to teach students about the Civil War. The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century. As you said, it was nearing the 50th anniversary of the conflict. Sane folks see that the monuments aren't about slavery or white supremacy, just an acknowledgement of the bravery and sacrifices of soldiers fighting against invaders and terrorists.
The monument was never finished and work stopped in 1972, but began much earlier.
As a counterpoint to the retarded hatred of the South by intolerant morons today, the U.S. government was helping the effort to fund the monument back in the 1920s:
The U.S. Mint issued a 1925 Commemorative silver U.S. half dollar, bearing the words "Stone Mountain", as a fundraiser for the monument.This issue, which required the approval of both the 1926 Congress and President Calvin Coolidge, was the largest issue of commemorative coins by the U.S. government up to that time.
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Post by thecitizen on Feb 27, 2024 21:10:19 GMT
The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century. As you said, it was nearing the 50th anniversary of the conflict. Sane folks see that the monuments aren't about slavery or white supremacy, just an acknowledgement of the bravery and sacrifices of soldiers fighting against invaders and terrorists.
The monument was never finished and work stopped in 1972, but began much earlier.
As a counterpoint to the retarded hatred of the South by intolerant morons today, the U.S. government was helping the effort to fund the monument back in the 1920s:
The U.S. Mint issued a 1925 Commemorative silver U.S. half dollar, bearing the words "Stone Mountain", as a fundraiser for the monument.This issue, which required the approval of both the 1926 Congress and President Calvin Coolidge, was the largest issue of commemorative coins by the U.S. government up to that time.
So you are not a patriot. Thanks for sharing that
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 27, 2024 21:13:44 GMT
Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century. As you said, it was nearing the 50th anniversary of the conflict. Sane folks see that the monuments aren't about slavery or white supremacy, just an acknowledgement of the bravery and sacrifices of soldiers fighting against invaders and terrorists.
The monument was never finished and work stopped in 1972, but began much earlier.
As a counterpoint to the retarded hatred of the South by intolerant morons today, the U.S. government was helping the effort to fund the monument back in the 1920s:
The U.S. Mint issued a 1925 Commemorative silver U.S. half dollar, bearing the words "Stone Mountain", as a fundraiser for the monument.This issue, which required the approval of both the 1926 Congress and President Calvin Coolidge, was the largest issue of commemorative coins by the U.S. government up to that time.
So you are not a patriot. Thanks for sharing that A patriot believes in the truth, justice, liberty and the sanctity of life. By those measures, you couldn't be a patriot in a dozen lifetimes, while I've never stopped being one.
Dishonestly claiming that I'm not a patriot makes you a racist. Thanks for sharing that.
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 27, 2024 21:21:01 GMT
Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century.
Indeed.
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Post by queshank on Feb 27, 2024 21:42:12 GMT
The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century. As you said, it was nearing the 50th anniversary of the conflict. Sane folks see that the monuments aren't about slavery or white supremacy, just an acknowledgement of the bravery and sacrifices of soldiers fighting against invaders and terrorists. The monument was never finished and work stopped in 1972, but began much earlier. As a counterpoint to the retarded hatred of the South by intolerant morons today, the U.S. government was helping the effort to fund the monument back in the 1920s: The U.S. Mint issued a 1925 Commemorative silver U.S. half dollar, bearing the words "Stone Mountain", as a fundraiser for the monument.This issue, which required the approval of both the 1926 Congress and President Calvin Coolidge, was the largest issue of commemorative coins by the U.S. government up to that time.
Your link: Fundraising for the monument resumed in 1923. The influence of the UDC continued, in support of Mrs. Plane's vision of a carving explicitly for the purpose of creating a Confederate memorial. She suggested in a letter to the first sculptor, Gutzon Borglum:
I feel it is due to the Klan[,] which saved us from Negro dominations [sic] and carpetbag rule, that it be immortalized on Stone Mountain. Why not represent a small group of them in their nightly uniform approaching in the distance?
The UDC established the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial Association (SMCMA) for fundraising and on-site supervision of the project. Venable and Borglum, both closely associated with the Klan, arranged to pack the SMCMA with Klan members. The SMCMA, along with the United Daughters of the Confederacy, continued fundraising efforts. Of the $250,000 (~$3.34 million in 2022) raised, part came from the federal government, which in 1925 issued commemorative fifty-cent coins with the soldiers Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson on them. The image on the verso of the coin was based on The Last Meeting of Lee and Jackson,executed in 1869 by Everett B. D. Fabrino Julio, itself an icon of Lost Cause mythology; it is now in the American Civil War Museum (until 2012 the Museum of the Confederacy). When the state completed the purchase in 1960, it condemned the property to void Venable's agreement to allow the Klan perpetual right to hold meetings on the premises.
Queshank
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Post by thecitizen on Feb 27, 2024 21:44:58 GMT
So you are not a patriot. Thanks for sharing that A patriot believes in the truth, justice, liberty and the sanctity of life. By those measures, you couldn't be a patriot in a dozen lifetimes, while I've never stopped being one.
Dishonestly claiming that I'm not a patriot makes you a racist. Thanks for sharing that.
LOL, you don’t even know the meaning of patriotism. You are loyal to the lost cause
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 27, 2024 21:46:31 GMT
I've hiked up to the top of Stone Mountain twice.
The laser light show at night was pretty cool.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Feb 27, 2024 21:53:38 GMT
And I've hiked the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne River multiple times. It's about a 4,000 foot climb.
The views are breathtaking.
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 27, 2024 22:04:29 GMT
Well, you don't get a lot of information from statues. If a statue of Robert E. Lee is taken down, that hardly means he disappears from history. There are still all kinds of books and other materials that give more info about Lee than a statue. I would wait until middle school and high school to teach students about the Civil War. Agree. Of course we should teach grade k white kids they are racist. That’s appropriate. Some of them will pick it up from "home schooling."
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 27, 2024 22:10:48 GMT
Well, you don't get a lot of information from statues. If a statue of Robert E. Lee is taken down, that hardly means he disappears from history. There are still all kinds of books and other materials that give more info about Lee than a statue. I would wait until middle school and high school to teach students about the Civil War. The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans.
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 27, 2024 22:39:37 GMT
Carr was more of a businessman than a politician and was also a Civil War vet, so he knew what he was talking about. I doubt his remarks about white supremacy were received with boos. Of course they didn't put anything about white supremacy on the monuments, they didn't need to. The message was quite obvious. Nothing made up, this is just what happened. His audience were the racists, not me. There was a resurgence of Confederate monuments and iconography starting in the 1950s, just at the same time civil rights agitation was coming to the fore. Just coincidence, no doubt. 1776 was at the beginning of the war, not the middle. I know my history, which is different from rancid Lost Cause nonsense. Slaveholders were tyrants, not Lincoln. Probably it still stands because limeys don't care that Cromwell was a war criminal, just like Columbus statues still stand here despite the fact he was a mass murderer. Only a racist sees white supremacy in any of those monuments and statues. Only a racist sees "obvious" hidden messages from a granite pillar that says absolutely nothing about race or anything associated with white supremacy.
If Biden made a speech at a Black History Month event and mentioned abortion or Ukraine or immigration, by your twisted logic, we must forever assume that Black History Month is really just about abortion or Ukraine or immigration instead of black history.
No, it's pretty stupid to lift something out of one speech and pervert the meaning of the event itself. On any other subject, most folks would be embarrassed to be triggered by something in one speech or in one document, but on the subject of the Southern Confederacy, those that hate the South prefer being stupid rather than objective. You're not being objective.
You don't know history at all, nor the meanings of words and phrases. Stand back, folks....we have a literalist in our midst and he's HolyMoly. He took the phrase "in the middle of" as literally meaning half way through. He's like a child, just learning what phrases mean. Here you go, youngling: in the middle of idiom : while (something) is happening or being done : during (something)
Not many monuments went up in the 1950s compared to the earlier times, and the iconography was around a lot longer. Southern soldiers in the U.S. military carried Confederate Battle Flags into battle in every war from the Spanish-American to Korea. And only a racist fails to notice that the centennial of the War Between the States is just around the corner in the 1950s
And here's your lack of perspective on display. Southerners who owned slaves were engaging in an evil, but still a legal activity. Calling Southern slaveowners "tyrants" is akin to calling abortionists "tyrants". Nonsensical lie. Lincoln on the other hand, violated the Constitution repeatedly, jailed opponents at will, committed terrorism against Southern civilians, and was the aggressor/conqueror throughout the war. And Lincoln wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, making it clear that he didn't think blacks and whites should intermingle in American society.
As far as Cromwell, was he any more a war criminal than the bloody royals that he replaced? Not hardly.
How does seeing white supremacy, which speakers were boasting of during some dedications, in these monuments make one a racist? It makes one a realist, not a racist. Does objecting to a statue of Hitler make one an anti-Semite? The one supposition is as nonsensical as the other, as is the Biden example. There is little connection between Ukraine and Black History Month; there is a connection between white supremacy and the Civil War. I'm sure you realize there is more than one meaning of the word middle. Most of the monuments went up in the late 19th and early 20th century. I suppose they were commemorating the 40th anniversary of the beginning of the Civil War. There was a resurgence in the 1950s and 1960s in reaction to the civil rights movement. Slaveowners were tyrants to their slaves in varying degrees. Lincoln didn't commit terrorism against southern civilians and he did win the war. So what. And he was a racist, no doubt about it. Cromwell was as bad as the royals. That's hardly a recommendation, more a condemnation.
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 27, 2024 23:19:04 GMT
Only a racist sees white supremacy in any of those monuments and statues. Only a racist sees "obvious" hidden messages from a granite pillar that says absolutely nothing about race or anything associated with white supremacy.
If Biden made a speech at a Black History Month event and mentioned abortion or Ukraine or immigration, by your twisted logic, we must forever assume that Black History Month is really just about abortion or Ukraine or immigration instead of black history.
No, it's pretty stupid to lift something out of one speech and pervert the meaning of the event itself. On any other subject, most folks would be embarrassed to be triggered by something in one speech or in one document, but on the subject of the Southern Confederacy, those that hate the South prefer being stupid rather than objective. You're not being objective.
You don't know history at all, nor the meanings of words and phrases. Stand back, folks....we have a literalist in our midst and he's HolyMoly. He took the phrase "in the middle of" as literally meaning half way through. He's like a child, just learning what phrases mean. Here you go, youngling: in the middle of idiom : while (something) is happening or being done : during (something)
Not many monuments went up in the 1950s compared to the earlier times, and the iconography was around a lot longer. Southern soldiers in the U.S. military carried Confederate Battle Flags into battle in every war from the Spanish-American to Korea. And only a racist fails to notice that the centennial of the War Between the States is just around the corner in the 1950s
And here's your lack of perspective on display. Southerners who owned slaves were engaging in an evil, but still a legal activity. Calling Southern slaveowners "tyrants" is akin to calling abortionists "tyrants". Nonsensical lie. Lincoln on the other hand, violated the Constitution repeatedly, jailed opponents at will, committed terrorism against Southern civilians, and was the aggressor/conqueror throughout the war. And Lincoln wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, making it clear that he didn't think blacks and whites should intermingle in American society.
As far as Cromwell, was he any more a war criminal than the bloody royals that he replaced? Not hardly.
How does seeing white supremacy, which speakers were boasting of during some dedications, in these monuments make one a racist? It makes one a realist, not a racist. Does objecting to a statue of Hitler make one an anti-Semite? The one supposition is as nonsensical as the other, as is the Biden example. There is little connection between Ukraine and Black History Month; there is a connection between white supremacy and the Civil War. I'm sure you realize there is more than one meaning of the word middle. Most of the monuments went up in the late 19th and early 20th century. I suppose they were commemorating the 40th anniversary of the beginning of the Civil War. There was a resurgence in the 1950s and 1960s in reaction to the civil rights movement. Slaveowners were tyrants to their slaves in varying degrees. Lincoln didn't commit terrorism against southern civilians and he did win the war. So what. And he was a racist, no doubt about it. Cromwell was as bad as the royals. That's hardly a recommendation, more a condemnation. Only a racist imagines that monuments that neither said anything about white supremacy and slavery nor depicts anything like that is still magically, secretly about white supremacy. And no, the War Between the States was not about white supremacy at all; stupidly believing that it was is racist. Cherry-picking from a bloviator making a speech just to justify your narrative is racist. The Hitler analogy just makes you a dumbass.
Yes, there are several meanings for "middle", but he expression "in the middle of a war" does not.
And, please stop being this dense. The memorials in the late 19th and early 20th century was related to the waning years of fathers and grandfathers who were beginning to pass away. Children and grandchildren, as well as organizations of veterans and their wives created harmless monuments to honor their kin, nothing more. Attaching something sinister to that is racist, because it assigns a racial component when their was little to none, especially on the monuments. Even the bulk of Carr's speech was not about white supremacy, but a racist is triggered by the part that was.
What the hell is wrong with you? Lincoln, through that trash Sherman, certainly did commit terrorism against southern civilians and he was a tyrant. Supporters of abortion are tyrants against every child slaughtered, right?....hey, it's YOUR f*cked up logic I'm borrowing.
Cromwell was equivalent to the Royals, good and bad. Confederates were equivalent to the Union, good and bad. Only one of those four is persecuted by racist cowards and filth tearing down statues of their heroes.
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 27, 2024 23:20:22 GMT
The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans. Point to the engravings on the monument or the depictions on the statues that show some other meaning or admit that you just lied.
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thor
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Post by thor on Feb 28, 2024 0:24:42 GMT
Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans. Point to the engravings on the monument or the depictions on the statues that show some other meaning or admit that you just lied. Bless your heart. Are you even from the South?
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