Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 1:07:13 GMT
Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century.
Indeed. You didn't even read the article, did you? This author Fennessy is like HolyMoly, imagining something that's not there in some cherry picked quotes. Such as this one... “our homes were not inviolable, our women were not secure from the assaults of the brutish” uttered by John McLauchlin. Only a racist would use his magical powers of leftism and conjure up race from a quote that mentions nothing about race, but that what this alleged historian did.
And themonuments themselves, devoid of anything racial in words or depictions, tell us that these two conclusions from the article are untrue:
Had either been true, the monuments would have reflected both, rather than limited to the momentary bloviations of a few invited blowhard in a time where the same sentiments were prevalent in the Northern states and indeed around the country.
Look around you this Black History Month.....if the pride in one's heritage and skin color expressed in those cherry picked speeches back then were racist and evil, aren't blacks today doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons....and praised by you and your ilk for doing so? Oops. Hypocrites ahead.
THAT'S why folks that see white supremacy in the monuments rather than objectively realizing that it was nothing but a few long forgotten speeches are the actual racists.
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 1:08:07 GMT
Point to the engravings on the monument or the depictions on the statues that show some other meaning or admit that you just lied. Bless your heart. Are you even from the South? I've kicked you ass enough times that you already know the answer to THAT question, boy.
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 1:19:18 GMT
Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century. As you said, it was nearing the 50th anniversary of the conflict. Sane folks see that the monuments aren't about slavery or white supremacy, just an acknowledgement of the bravery and sacrifices of soldiers fighting against invaders and terrorists. The monument was never finished and work stopped in 1972, but began much earlier. As a counterpoint to the retarded hatred of the South by intolerant morons today, the U.S. government was helping the effort to fund the monument back in the 1920s: The U.S. Mint issued a 1925 Commemorative silver U.S. half dollar, bearing the words "Stone Mountain", as a fundraiser for the monument.This issue, which required the approval of both the 1926 Congress and President Calvin Coolidge, was the largest issue of commemorative coins by the U.S. government up to that time.
Your link: Fundraising for the monument resumed in 1923. The influence of the UDC continued, in support of Mrs. Plane's vision of a carving explicitly for the purpose of creating a Confederate memorial. She suggested in a letter to the first sculptor, Gutzon Borglum:
I feel it is due to the Klan[,] which saved us from Negro dominations [sic] and carpetbag rule, that it be immortalized on Stone Mountain. Why not represent a small group of them in their nightly uniform approaching in the distance?
The UDC established the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial Association (SMCMA) for fundraising and on-site supervision of the project. Venable and Borglum, both closely associated with the Klan, arranged to pack the SMCMA with Klan members. The SMCMA, along with the United Daughters of the Confederacy, continued fundraising efforts. Of the $250,000 (~$3.34 million in 2022) raised, part came from the federal government, which in 1925 issued commemorative fifty-cent coins with the soldiers Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson on them. The image on the verso of the coin was based on The Last Meeting of Lee and Jackson,executed in 1869 by Everett B. D. Fabrino Julio, itself an icon of Lost Cause mythology; it is now in the American Civil War Museum (until 2012 the Museum of the Confederacy). When the state completed the purchase in 1960, it condemned the property to void Venable's agreement to allow the Klan perpetual right to hold meetings on the premises.
Queshank
Oh, Gee Whiz and Golly Wally, and old lady had an isolated opinion that we don't like 100 years later! The sky is falling! It's Armageddon! It's the end!
I expected you, Queshank, of all of these people, to resist being triggered by such nonsense, but alas you seem to have fallen off the wagon. Note that what the old lady wanted in her letter, she did not get.
Once again, please point to any part of the Stone Mountain Monument that speaks to or depicts anything about race or white supremacy. Be specific, rather than employing HolyMoly's out-of-ass guesses as to motivation.
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 1:21:43 GMT
A patriot believes in the truth, justice, liberty and the sanctity of life. By those measures, you couldn't be a patriot in a dozen lifetimes, while I've never stopped being one.
Dishonestly claiming that I'm not a patriot makes you a racist. Thanks for sharing that.
LOL, you don’t even know the meaning of patriotism. You are loyal to the lost cause Wads, you're the very last person that anyone would trust concerning patriotism or any other subject. I'm loyal to the truth and nothing repels you more than that same truth.
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thor
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Post by thor on Feb 28, 2024 1:55:56 GMT
Bless your heart. Are you even from the South? I've kicked you ass enough times that you already know the answer to THAT question, boy. OK, so you admit that some of you (yourself included) are some of the most Passive-Aggressive bitches in the US. Everyone knew why your kind erected your statues to your parasite 'heroes', and why they were placed where they were, degenerate. It didn't have to be written down at all, Stupid Boy. Bless your heart.
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 28, 2024 2:35:44 GMT
How does seeing white supremacy, which speakers were boasting of during some dedications, in these monuments make one a racist? It makes one a realist, not a racist. Does objecting to a statue of Hitler make one an anti-Semite? The one supposition is as nonsensical as the other, as is the Biden example. There is little connection between Ukraine and Black History Month; there is a connection between white supremacy and the Civil War. I'm sure you realize there is more than one meaning of the word middle. Most of the monuments went up in the late 19th and early 20th century. I suppose they were commemorating the 40th anniversary of the beginning of the Civil War. There was a resurgence in the 1950s and 1960s in reaction to the civil rights movement. Slaveowners were tyrants to their slaves in varying degrees. Lincoln didn't commit terrorism against southern civilians and he did win the war. So what. And he was a racist, no doubt about it. Cromwell was as bad as the royals. That's hardly a recommendation, more a condemnation. Only a racist imagines that monuments that neither said anything about white supremacy and slavery nor depicts anything like that is still magically, secretly about white supremacy. And no, the War Between the States was not about white supremacy at all; stupidly believing that it was is racist. Cherry-picking from a bloviator making a speech just to justify your narrative is racist. The Hitler analogy just makes you a dumbass.
Yes, there are several meanings for "middle", but he expression "in the middle of a war" does not.
And, please stop being this dense. The memorials in the late 19th and early 20th century was related to the waning years of fathers and grandfathers who were beginning to pass away. Children and grandchildren, as well as organizations of veterans and their wives created harmless monuments to honor their kin, nothing more. Attaching something sinister to that is racist, because it assigns a racial component when their was little to none, especially on the monuments. Even the bulk of Carr's speech was not about white supremacy, but a racist is triggered by the part that was.
What the hell is wrong with you? Lincoln, through that trash Sherman, certainly did commit terrorism against southern civilians and he was a tyrant. Supporters of abortion are tyrants against every child slaughtered, right?....hey, it's YOUR f*cked up logic I'm borrowing.
Cromwell was equivalent to the Royals, good and bad. Confederates were equivalent to the Union, good and bad. Only one of those four is persecuted by racist cowards and filth tearing down statues of their heroes.
No magic involved. The speakers at some of these dedications made it clear they thought they symbolized the continuation of white supremacy through segregation and discrimination. Of course if one believes the war was not about slavery, it would not be about white supremacy. If one believes the opposite it was about white supremacy, to be continued after the war with Jim Crow laws. The silliness of believing that people opposed to white supremacy are racists is the same as believing that those opposed to Hitler were anti-Semites. Up is down, black is white. And there is no contradiction between honoring Confederate vets and white supremacy, quite the contrary. There was much property destruction during Sherman's March to the Sea, but terrorism against individuals was not a significant factor. Pro-choicers simply leave each individual woman with the choice she wants to make. That's the opposite of tyranny. It's clear that most Americans don't consider a fetus to be a child. Again, people tearing down statues of slaveholding white supremacists can hardly be racists. They are protesting against racism.
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 28, 2024 2:45:46 GMT
Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans. Point to the engravings on the monument or the depictions on the statues that show some other meaning or admit that you just lied. It's not necessary to point to the inscriptions. The oratory makes it clear that white supremacy was part of the reason for these monuments. As already stated, these folks weren't dense and knew it would be stupid to mention white supremacy just like statues of Columbus don't mention his murderous actions against native populations.
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Post by thecitizen on Feb 28, 2024 2:49:07 GMT
LOL, you don’t even know the meaning of patriotism. You are loyal to the lost cause Wads, you're the very last person that anyone would trust concerning patriotism or any other subject. I'm loyal to the truth and nothing repels you more than that same truth. But you are not a patriot
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Post by runswithscissors on Feb 28, 2024 13:56:29 GMT
The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Only a racist sees any motivation other than honoring the CSA soldiers that were now old and feeble in the early 20th century. As you said, it was nearing the 50th anniversary of the conflict. Sane folks see that the monuments aren't about slavery or white supremacy, just an acknowledgement of the bravery and sacrifices of soldiers fighting against invaders and terrorists.
The monument was never finished and work stopped in 1972, but began much earlier.
As a counterpoint to the retarded hatred of the South by intolerant morons today, the U.S. government was helping the effort to fund the monument back in the 1920s:
The U.S. Mint issued a 1925 Commemorative silver U.S. half dollar, bearing the words "Stone Mountain", as a fundraiser for the monument.This issue, which required the approval of both the 1926 Congress and President Calvin Coolidge, was the largest issue of commemorative coins by the U.S. government up to that time.
Your short overview of the period during which the vast majority of these statues were created neglected to mention that the 1920's represented the very pinnacle of KKK power and membership. And not just in the south. trump's father was one of only about seven people arrested during a Klan rally in NY during this time. The rally participants numbered in the thousands. No wonder you gush in awe over trump and all he represents.
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Post by runswithscissors on Feb 28, 2024 14:02:30 GMT
The vast majority of those statues "honoring" ex Confederates were erected in the early 20th century....about the fifty year anniversary of the end of the war. And just about ALL of them were commissioned by the Daughters of the Confederacy or other partisan entities. That in itself reveals the motivation behind them. And the grandest one of all, Stone Mountain in GA wasn't finished until the 1970's. Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans. Yeah, I just came in here and reminded Paleo how damn near all of them were erected during the same period that KKK influence and membership were at their highest ever. But I guess that's only coincidence.
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petep
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Post by petep on Feb 28, 2024 14:21:36 GMT
Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans. Yeah, I just came in here and reminded Paleo how damn near all of them were erected during the same period that KKK influence and membership were at their highest ever. But I guess that's only coincidence. Can you please post a source to support your claims regarding kkk membership and influence. Let’s not become wads, Greg, fids, Freon, Cades etc.
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Post by runswithscissors on Feb 28, 2024 14:29:46 GMT
Yeah, I just came in here and reminded Paleo how damn near all of them were erected during the same period that KKK influence and membership were at their highest ever. But I guess that's only coincidence. Can you please post a source to support your claims regarding kkk membership and influence. Let’s not become wads, Greg, fids, Freon, Cades etc. Ask and ye shall receive. It's a long and hideous tale, but the section titled "Rapid Growth" should serve your purpose. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#Second_Klan:_1915%E2%80%931944
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 28, 2024 14:42:07 GMT
You didn't even read the article, did you? This author Fennessy is like HolyMoly, imagining something that's not there in some cherry picked quotes. Such as this one... “our homes were not inviolable, our women were not secure from the assaults of the brutish” uttered by John McLauchlin. Only a racist would use his magical powers of leftism and conjure up race from a quote that mentions nothing about race, but that what this alleged historian did.
And themonuments themselves, devoid of anything racial in words or depictions, tell us that these two conclusions from the article are untrue:
Had either been true, the monuments would have reflected both, rather than limited to the momentary bloviations of a few invited blowhard in a time where the same sentiments were prevalent in the Northern states and indeed around the country.
Look around you this Black History Month.....if the pride in one's heritage and skin color expressed in those cherry picked speeches back then were racist and evil, aren't blacks today doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons....and praised by you and your ilk for doing so? Oops. Hypocrites ahead.
THAT'S why folks that see white supremacy in the monuments rather than objectively realizing that it was nothing but a few long forgotten speeches are the actual racists.
The article goes directly to the point about motivation.
But go ahead and twist yourself into a pretzel to avoid the obvious.
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 21:49:54 GMT
You didn't even read the article, did you? This author Fennessy is like HolyMoly, imagining something that's not there in some cherry picked quotes. Such as this one... “our homes were not inviolable, our women were not secure from the assaults of the brutish” uttered by John McLauchlin. Only a racist would use his magical powers of leftism and conjure up race from a quote that mentions nothing about race, but that what this alleged historian did.
And themonuments themselves, devoid of anything racial in words or depictions, tell us that these two conclusions from the article are untrue:
Had either been true, the monuments would have reflected both, rather than limited to the momentary bloviations of a few invited blowhard in a time where the same sentiments were prevalent in the Northern states and indeed around the country.
Look around you this Black History Month.....if the pride in one's heritage and skin color expressed in those cherry picked speeches back then were racist and evil, aren't blacks today doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons....and praised by you and your ilk for doing so? Oops. Hypocrites ahead.
THAT'S why folks that see white supremacy in the monuments rather than objectively realizing that it was nothing but a few long forgotten speeches are the actual racists.
The article goes directly to the point about motivation.
But go ahead and twist yourself into a pretzel to avoid the obvious.
The article is full of cherry picked mini quotes, not a full measure of the entire speeches from which they were drawn. Small paragraphs from elitists that were never reflected in the monuments themselves. Most of these dedication speeches were long orations full of all kinds of ideas, not the sound bites that you seem to be satisfied with. The Cornerstone Speech by Stephens and the four Declarations of Causes, the foundations of the Northern lie, all contain a myriad of other causes and ideas that have nothing to do with slavery, but a fool latches onto their favorite quote and stops looking at the rest.
It's sad and pathetic how intellectually lazy these normal folks seem to get on this subject. Most of the good posters here, like Demos and Queshank, will be skeptical about almost any other topic, but when it comes to the sacred cows whose slaughter would turn the world upside down, their typical cynicism evaporates and they become cultish converts in the Church of the Northern Lies About The South.
You've succumbed to the sound of the dog whistle, that magical trigger phrase that confirms your biases and kills your curiosity. It's the true measure of whether you are a critical thinker, whether you're truly objective and whether your intelligence is deep or shallow. Believing the lie that the South's cause was slavery or the lie that these monuments were symbols of white supremacy means a person was too lazy, too disinterested or just too much of a racist to dig deeper for the truth.
Remember this: only animals hear that dog whistle.
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 21:51:26 GMT
Wads, you're the very last person that anyone would trust concerning patriotism or any other subject. I'm loyal to the truth and nothing repels you more than that same truth. But you are not a patriot And you're not honest, so no one except your fellow morons believes that lie.
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 28, 2024 21:52:05 GMT
People could post multiple entire speeches and you would brush it off and try to rationalize it away.
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 22:15:13 GMT
I've kicked you ass enough times that you already know the answer to THAT question, boy. OK, so you admit that some of you (yourself included) are some of the most Passive-Aggressive bitches in the US. Everyone knew why your kind erected your statues to your parasite 'heroes', and why they were placed where they were, degenerate. It didn't have to be written down at all, Stupid Boy. Bless your heart. Only an idiot like you would believe those lies. I'm sure you were the late night twink in the barracks when you served. Any "foxhole" they wanted, right?
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Paleocon
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Post by Paleocon on Feb 28, 2024 22:16:29 GMT
People could post multiple entire speeches and you would brush it off and try to rationalize it away. Isn't that what YOU are doing? You're guilty of reading half the Cliff's Notes and thinking you know the whole story.
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 28, 2024 22:27:06 GMT
Isn't that what YOU are doing? You're guilty of reading half the Cliff's Notes and thinking you know the whole story. You ignore most of the story because it doesn't suit your narrative.
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Post by HolyMoly on Feb 28, 2024 23:01:01 GMT
Yeah, it's pretty clear that these monuments were about more than honoring Confederate veterans. Yeah, I just came in here and reminded Paleo how damn near all of them were erected during the same period that KKK influence and membership were at their highest ever. But I guess that's only coincidence. Some of the speakers even made it clear it was about continuing white supremacy, and there is no contradiction between white supremacy and honoring Confederate veterans. They go hand in hand.
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