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Post by Lomelis on Jul 3, 2020 23:31:35 GMT
Is the metric to be measured deaths or free choice. The govt could have threatened death to anyone who left home and we may have significantly reduced deaths of 80 year olds. Would that be success?
Although "Live Free or Die" is a catchy slogan, I'm wondering if having to take rational steps to reduce the odds of the pandemic going out of control (or more out of control) and killing a lot more innocent souls is worse than death.
The thing is, I probably would not be wearing a face mask everywhere I go if there wasn't a government edict. And I don't think I'm so different than the average bear.
Yes we already know you must be told to do anything. How many people do you think you killed when you were not wearing a face covering during the time the government decreed that the general public should not be wearing masks?
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Post by phillip on Jul 4, 2020 19:39:53 GMT
Is your point that people should just die and get it over with? Greg You won't die. The infection mortality rate is near that of the flu.
What's the mortality rate for the flu in the United States in June/July again?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 19:45:02 GMT
You won't die. The infection mortality rate is near that of the flu.
What's the mortality rate for the flu in the United States in June/July again?
It depends on the flu. H1N1, Type A, Type B or Spanish? In any case, they will range from 0.08 to 0.13%. But you may be wrongly referring to the number of people that die in total because in June and July the flu doesn't propagate like it does in the fall and winter. Yet, even with about 6 to 8 months of dormancy it manages to come back every year. Hmmm...so staying inside for 2 weeks was going to end COVID-19 that spreads even faster? Come on man. Use some common sense. The shutdown was a waste.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 4, 2020 19:50:17 GMT
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 4, 2020 19:52:31 GMT
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 4, 2020 19:54:23 GMT
What's the mortality rate for the flu in the United States in June/July again?
It depends on the flu. H1N1, Type A, Type B or Spanish? In any case, they will range from 0.08 to 0.13%. But you may be wrongly referring to the number of people that die in total because in June and July the flu doesn't propagate like it does in the fall and winter. Yet, even with about 6 to 8 months of dormancy it manages to come back every year. Hmmm...so staying inside for 2 weeks was going to end COVID-19 that spreads even faster? Come on man. Use some common sense. The shutdown was a waste.
Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
And of course the time of year is relevant ..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 19:58:07 GMT
Well, they did a good job of making the Karen side of the argument. What they failed to address is the lack of immunity built up by society. We have been bombarded with flu from the day we were born. To some extent, we have built up an immunity to it even though it is changing. Second, we have developed vaccines, tests and procedures for handling flu cases that range from minor to life threatening. With COVID-19, we started the year with no immunity, no vaccine, no treatment and no understanding of how it was spread or how it would progress. As a result, it is spreading faster than the flu (and it may always do that, we don't know yet), treatments are an evolving progress that appear to be improving and we are still working to improve testing and develop a vaccine. So, in some ways, yes, it is wrong to compare the two. But in other ways the comparison is helpful. If you know that the average person has as good of a chance of surviving COVID-19 as you do the flu, it is safe to say most will eventually accept that small risk as a part of life.
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Post by phillip on Jul 4, 2020 20:03:54 GMT
What's the mortality rate for the flu in the United States in June/July again?
It depends on the flu. H1N1, Type A, Type B or Spanish? In any case, they will range from 0.08 to 0.13%. But you may be wrongly referring to the number of people that die in total because in June and July the flu doesn't propagate like it does in the fall and winter. Yet, even with about 6 to 8 months of dormancy it manages to come back every year. Hmmm...so staying inside for 2 weeks was going to end COVID-19 that spreads even faster? Come on man. Use some common sense. The shutdown was a waste.
So, it doesn't have the same mortality rate. Got it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 20:05:07 GMT
It depends on the flu. H1N1, Type A, Type B or Spanish? In any case, they will range from 0.08 to 0.13%. But you may be wrongly referring to the number of people that die in total because in June and July the flu doesn't propagate like it does in the fall and winter. Yet, even with about 6 to 8 months of dormancy it manages to come back every year. Hmmm...so staying inside for 2 weeks was going to end COVID-19 that spreads even faster? Come on man. Use some common sense. The shutdown was a waste.
Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
And of course the time of year is relevant ..
I know what the point of the stay at home order was, but most think it was to end the virus. It can't and won't. That's why all this caterwauling about a rise in cases is stupid. And no, the time of year doesn't matter because we are talking about how many people die who get it. If you want to talk about how many die per year, that is fine. But that number is somewhat skewed because the flu is dormant during the summer months.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 20:05:33 GMT
It depends on the flu. H1N1, Type A, Type B or Spanish? In any case, they will range from 0.08 to 0.13%. But you may be wrongly referring to the number of people that die in total because in June and July the flu doesn't propagate like it does in the fall and winter. Yet, even with about 6 to 8 months of dormancy it manages to come back every year. Hmmm...so staying inside for 2 weeks was going to end COVID-19 that spreads even faster? Come on man. Use some common sense. The shutdown was a waste.
So, it doesn't have the same mortality rate. Got it.
Yes. It might actually be less.
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 4, 2020 20:05:34 GMT
What figure you got for those that DON'T die from it but are phucked up permanently? Greg It wasn't until recently that they started treating it like hypoxia instead of pneumonia. Now the success rate is up. Way up.
They've been monitoring low blood oxygen levels (hypoxia) and treating for such since day one .. Better treatments ...plus remdesivir, dexamethasone ... are the reason for the improved success rate.
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Post by phillip on Jul 4, 2020 20:08:35 GMT
So, it doesn't have the same mortality rate. Got it.
Yes. It might actually be less.
Stop lying.
COVID-19: There have been approximately 516,726 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 128,062 people have died of COVID-19, as of July 2, 2020.*
Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.
In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu. (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)
The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher than that of most strains of the flu.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 4, 2020 20:09:04 GMT
Page up and you'll see that a scientific analysis indicates that Covid-19 is 50 to 100 times more deadly than influenza.
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 4, 2020 20:22:42 GMT
Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
And of course the time of year is relevant ..
I know what the point of the stay at home order was, but most think it was to end the virus. It can't and won't. Personally I know of no source that claimed stay at home would "end" the virus.. Then I don't consume right-wing news.. Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
And of course the time of year is relevant ..
That's why all this caterwauling about a rise in cases is stupid. Really.. For easy math, let's say that the mortality rate is 1% ..
10,000 infected = 100 dead ..
100,000 infected = 1000 dead. 100,000,000 infected = 1,000,000 dead..
Seems fewer cases is a good idea..
Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
And of course the time of year is relevant ..
And no, the time of year doesn't matter because we are talking about how many people die who get it. If you want to talk about how many die per year, that is fine. But that number is somewhat skewed because the flu is dormant during the summer months. You were discussing Corona vs Flu .. And in that Corona doesn't take the summer off it's clearly more dangerous..
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Post by Lomelis on Jul 4, 2020 20:24:56 GMT
It wasn't until recently that they started treating it like hypoxia instead of pneumonia. Now the success rate is up. Way up.
They've been monitoring low blood oxygen levels (hypoxia) and treating for such since day one .. Better treatments ...plus remdesivir, dexamethasone ... are the reason for the improved success rate.
You would think that the doctors would have noticed sooner that like almost everyone they were putting on ventilators was dying. That perhaps maybe a different treatment would work better. Dr Bob puts 5 people on ventilators. 4 are dead within hours one is barely hanging in there and if he survives he will have serious lung damage. Dr Bob puts another 5 on ventilators throughout the week. Same results. This goes on for weeks. After about 50 deaths Dr. Bob goes "Oh gee, ya know, these ventilators don't seem to be helping. It almost seems like they are killing the patients. Maybe I should try something else."
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 4, 2020 20:54:56 GMT
They've been monitoring low blood oxygen levels (hypoxia) and treating for such since day one .. Better treatments ...plus remdesivir, dexamethasone ... are the reason for the improved success rate.
You would think that the doctors would have noticed sooner that like almost everyone they were putting on ventilators was dying. That perhaps maybe a different treatment would work better. Dr Bob puts 5 people on ventilators. 4 are dead within hours one is barely hanging in there and if he survives he will have serious lung damage. Dr Bob puts another 5 on ventilators throughout the week. Same results. This goes on for weeks. After about 50 deaths Dr. Bob goes "Oh gee, ya know, these ventilators don't seem to be helping. It almost seems like they are killing the patients. Maybe I should try something else." Stupid doctors.. Not knowing the most effective way to treat a novel coronavirus from the get go .. ..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 21:09:49 GMT
It wasn't until recently that they started treating it like hypoxia instead of pneumonia. Now the success rate is up. Way up.
They've been monitoring low blood oxygen levels (hypoxia) and treating for such since day one .. Better treatments ...plus remdesivir, dexamethasone ... are the reason for the improved success rate.
They monitor that in everyone. But they treated the virus like pneumonia. They still report this virus as if it is related to pneumonia, which it is not.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 21:16:55 GMT
I know what the point of the stay at home order was, but most think it was to end the virus. It can't and won't. Personally I know of no source that claimed stay at home would "end" the virus.. Then I don't consume right-wing news.. No, no one said that. But, that doesn't mean the public perception wasn't that the virus would end if we stayed home. That was the false impression a lot of people are reacting to when they see numbers increasing after the shutdowns. Now divide all of that by ten and you are closer to the real math. But here is the rub...those numbers are going to reached whether we stay at home or go out. Let that sink in. No matter what we do, we will reach whatever the end number is. Whether it is 200,000 or 1 million, we will get there. The only question we face today is how long do we pretend we can control that number and hamper the economy? On a case by case basis, the fact that it lays dormant is immaterial. If you are talking about a population and total deaths, then yes. But the actual danger it presents to an individual is a completely different standard.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 21:58:31 GMT
It depends on the flu. H1N1, Type A, Type B or Spanish? In any case, they will range from 0.08 to 0.13%. But you may be wrongly referring to the number of people that die in total because in June and July the flu doesn't propagate like it does in the fall and winter. Yet, even with about 6 to 8 months of dormancy it manages to come back every year. Hmmm...so staying inside for 2 weeks was going to end COVID-19 that spreads even faster? Come on man. Use some common sense. The shutdown was a waste.
Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
There are leftists right here on the boards who will argue with you on that.
Queshank
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 4, 2020 22:53:14 GMT
Stop trying to spread misinformation.. The 'stay inside' was to prevent overwhelming the hospital system.. NOT to "end COVID" ..
There are leftists right here on the boards who will argue with you on that.
Queshank
Show me..
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