freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 16:45:54 GMT
So first you denigrate the link by associating it to Fascism definitions that, I assume, are below your standard. And I've already shown you are NOT an authority when it comes to definitions. You are actually quite biased. And then you further denigrate it by aggregating all behaviors in the entire history of the country, as being equivalent to the successive and connected actions of both Nazi Germany, and Donald Trump. A cheap trick, really. I would think it beneath you, but once your fictional empirical veneer is seen through, you're actually not much different than the rest of the forum. It's too bad. I had hoped that on the inside, you were a kindred intellect. I think your argument defeats itself. Freon I think you haven't really thought about what's in that link, which would indicate some historical fascism in the U.S. if you just start checking off the boxes.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Yup 2. Disregard for Human Rights - Yes 3. Identification of Enemies as a Unifying Cause - Yup 4. Supremacy of the Military - Oh yeah 5. Widespread Sexism - Much less now, but historically, yes. 6. Controlled Mass Media - Not so much, but the government has been involved in planting and censoring stories 7. Obsession with National Security - Yup 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Yup 9. Corporate Power is Protected - Yup 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Yup 11. Disrespect for Intellectuals and the Arts - Eh, this seems to ebb 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Yup 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Maybe not as rampant anymore, but yeah, we've got this too 14. Fraudulent Elections - Historically, yes (LBJ says hello)
So, yeah, it's a pretty simplistic list (even the bullets under each heading don't really help you), which isn't surprising given the audience (high school students). I'm not expecting some in-depth discussion of fascism in a high school setting, but that checklist is what you keep pointing to so if you want to use it, then let's use it.
The only biased person here is you. You lack knowledge of so many things and just insert your biased opinion, because don't actually know anything.
I NEVER argued that the US did not do those things. You missed my point completely. Freon |
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demos
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Post by demos on Aug 24, 2023 16:49:16 GMT
I NEVER argued that the US did not do those things. You missed my point completely. Freon Yeah, you want to make it about Trump and how he's a fascist, but it's so superficial as to be meaningless, which is my point.
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 24, 2023 16:51:06 GMT
Donald J. Trump is still a Fascist.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 16:52:55 GMT
I NEVER argued that the US did not do those things. You missed my point completely. Freon Yeah, you want to make it about Trump and how he's a fascist, but it's so superficial as to be meaningless, which is my point.
A defender of Donald, now? Interesting. How can I even argue with you, when you did not understand my response to your piece about American fascism? Freon |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 17:08:20 GMT
What link? There is no link in the op or your post. You can't see my signature line at the bottom? It's right where you keep our bet (which I've already won, btw). Freon Not on my phone. You never answered my question. What in Useless' video doesn't apply to the left/Democrats? |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 24, 2023 17:16:32 GMT
Donald J. Trump is still a Fascist.
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Post by Mercy for All on Aug 24, 2023 17:16:37 GMT
Really? Name one of those things that the Democrats don't support.
When you use broad definitions rather than the original definition, you dilute the meaning of the word to the point that the word can be applied to anything.
Fascism is a forcibly monolithic, regimented nation under the control of an autocratic ruler. The only nations today that are fascist would be China, Cuba, Iran and Russia. Well, there are probably a few more. Those are the most well known.
Just because you didn't like DJT, and I get that, doesn't mean that he was fascist. All you guys did was rebrand racism as fascism so you could cry wolf some more and hope people would listen again.
Like I said, check out that link. Very specific definitions. Very clear checkboxes, based on historic examples of Fascism. What I hear is you trying to attack the word Fascism itself, to decrease its effect when used. But it won't work here. You are a Fascist, in the strictest definition of that term, comparable to the Fascists of history, most notably Adolph Hitler. Just because YOU don't like it, does not make it untrue. Freon Historic monarchies demonstrated all or most of those qualities at times. |
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 17:16:58 GMT
You can't see my signature line at the bottom? It's right where you keep our bet (which I've already won, btw). Freon Not on my phone. You never answered my question. What in Useless' video doesn't apply to the left/Democrats? Who is 'Useless'? Freon |
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Post by Mercy for All on Aug 24, 2023 17:17:26 GMT
Donald J. Trump is still a Fascist. Where'd you learn how to argue? Monty Python? |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 24, 2023 17:22:10 GMT
Donald J. Trump is still a Fascist. Where'd you learn how to argue? Monty Python?
Donald J. Trump is still a Fascist.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 17:24:40 GMT
Like I said, check out that link. Very specific definitions. Very clear checkboxes, based on historic examples of Fascism. What I hear is you trying to attack the word Fascism itself, to decrease its effect when used. But it won't work here. You are a Fascist, in the strictest definition of that term, comparable to the Fascists of history, most notably Adolph Hitler. Just because YOU don't like it, does not make it untrue. Freon Historic monarchies demonstrated all or most of those qualities at times. Finally, someone honest about this, though I wonder if intentional. 'At times'. That's the piece you righties aren't acknowledging. I am not saying that pieces of fascism have not been implemented by other groups. They have. But separated by decades, by different leaders, by different parties. What makes a fascist is the CONCENTRATED implementation, the implementation during a relatively short time (few years, vs decades, centuries, etc) of all, or most, of those check-boxed qualifications in the link in my sig. To look at the country in aggregate, for instance, over 200 years, and say because pieces of fascism occurred here or there, that the whole country can be described as fascist, is illogical and silly. Freon |
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demos
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Post by demos on Aug 24, 2023 17:31:39 GMT
A defender of Donald, now? Interesting. How can I even argue with you, when you did not understand my response to your piece about American fascism? Freon LOL. Pointing out the weakness of your argument doesn't make me a defender of Donald Trump.
You don't have a response. You've got nothing except uninformed opinions, as usual.
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demos
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Post by demos on Aug 24, 2023 17:33:27 GMT
To look at the country in aggregate, for instance, over 200 years, and say because pieces of fascism occurred here or there, that the whole country can be described as fascist, is illogical and silly. Freon Try since the Cold War. Or 9/11. Is that a defined enough period for you? A concentrated, short enough period of time?
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Post by Mercy for All on Aug 24, 2023 17:38:08 GMT
Historic monarchies demonstrated all or most of those qualities at times. Finally, someone honest about this, though I wonder if intentional. 'At times'. That's the piece you righties aren't acknowledging. I am not saying that pieces of fascism have not been implemented by other groups. They have. But separated by decades, by different leaders, by different parties. What makes a fascist is the CONCENTRATED implementation, the implementation during a relatively short time (few years, vs decades, centuries, etc) of all, or most, of those check-boxed qualifications in the link in my sig. To look at the country in aggregate, for instance, over 200 years, and say because pieces of fascism occurred here or there, that the whole country can be described as fascist, is illogical and silly. Freon So fascism cannot be implemented long-term? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 17:46:59 GMT
Not on my phone. You never answered my question. What in Useless' video doesn't apply to the left/Democrats? Who is 'Useless'? Freon Alright, play dumb. |
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 18:09:15 GMT
A defender of Donald, now? Interesting. How can I even argue with you, when you did not understand my response to your piece about American fascism? Freon LOL. Pointing out the weakness of your argument doesn't make me a defender of Donald Trump.
You don't have a response. You've got nothing except uninformed opinions, as usual.
I agree. There is consistency in this interaction. But you cannot point out a weakness, if you did not even understand the argument. Freon |
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 18:10:00 GMT
I actually have no idea who this is. Can someone else tell me, then. Freon |
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demos
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Post by demos on Aug 24, 2023 18:12:30 GMT
I agree. There is consistency in this interaction. But you cannot point out a weakness, if you did not even understand the argument. Freon The weakness has already been pointed out. You're checklist is so superficial it can be applied to pretty much anyone or any state. Narrow the time frame, concentrate it as much as you want, it's still so superficial that it's meaningless.
And you lack the knowledge or ability to strengthen your argument.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Aug 24, 2023 18:13:03 GMT
To look at the country in aggregate, for instance, over 200 years, and say because pieces of fascism occurred here or there, that the whole country can be described as fascist, is illogical and silly. Freon Try since the Cold War. Or 9/11. Is that a defined enough period for you? A concentrated, short enough period of time?
No, it's not. Too many leaders in charge, not all of them consistent in their implementations. But I'm willing to discuss this as a thought experiment. Give me a set of policies by one president, cold war until now, that is demonstrably fascist, so I can understand your interpretation. Freon |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 24, 2023 18:15:11 GMT
Finally, someone honest about this, though I wonder if intentional. 'At times'. That's the piece you righties aren't acknowledging. I am not saying that pieces of fascism have not been implemented by other groups. They have. But separated by decades, by different leaders, by different parties. What makes a fascist is the CONCENTRATED implementation, the implementation during a relatively short time (few years, vs decades, centuries, etc) of all, or most, of those check-boxed qualifications in the link in my sig. To look at the country in aggregate, for instance, over 200 years, and say because pieces of fascism occurred here or there, that the whole country can be described as fascist, is illogical and silly. Freon So fascism cannot be implemented long-term?
Did Freon say that?
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