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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 27, 2023 23:16:44 GMT
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning
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Post by jasmine on Jul 28, 2023 0:18:48 GMT
Guilty as charged. Well, not with my lifestyle, but with my forum behavior.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Jul 28, 2023 1:00:13 GMT
Guilty as charged. Well, not with my lifestyle, but with my forum behavior. Then why do you do it? You diminish yourself here daily for no good reason. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Jul 28, 2023 1:02:11 GMT
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their actions. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning I find that quote much more agreeable. |
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Post by jasmine on Jul 28, 2023 1:02:12 GMT
Guilty as charged. Well, not with my lifestyle, but with my forum behavior. Then why do you do it? You diminish yourself here daily for no good reason. Because it’s fun. |
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Post by william on Jul 28, 2023 14:44:54 GMT
Then why do you do it? You diminish yourself here daily for no good reason. Because it’s fun. Do you just thumb your nose at your god, or do you say fuck you when you flip him off? |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 28, 2023 17:02:10 GMT
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning I don't know how this is possible, just from a purely analytical standpoint. You have Christians at 30% of the global population, Muslims at 25%, Hindus at 15%, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews... How is it that Christians are the greatest single cause creating atheism in say... the Middle East? In SE Asia? Christians are not even the majority of people in the world nor are there more Christians than the other religions combined. I think you can certainly fault Christians for turning away some chunk of Atheists, but certainly no where near being the single greatest cause. If you look at some of the worlds renowned Atheists, they usually focus their arguments and reason on purely logical/scientific rejections of any faith, they don't base it on any hard feelings they have towards any other religions followers let alone Christians. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 28, 2023 17:12:00 GMT
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning I don't know how this is possible, just from a purely analytical standpoint. You have Christians at 30% of the global population, Muslims at 25%, Hindus at 15%, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews... How is it that Christians are the greatest single cause creating atheism in say... the Middle East? In SE Asia? Christians are not even the majority of people in the world nor are there more Christians than the other religions combined. I think you can certainly fault Christians for turning away some chunk of Atheists, but certainly no where near being the single greatest cause. If you look at some of the worlds renowned Atheists, they usually focus their arguments and reason on purely logical/scientific rejections of any faith, they don't base it on any hard feelings they have towards any other religions followers let alone Christians. Have you read anything by Brennan Manning? Pretty sure he's not making a statement from a scientific, sociological, or historical perspective. And his context was North America. As for "some of the world's renowned Atheists," regardless of their arguments, I don't think their decisions are necessarily based on logic, but on underlying motivations. From The Matrix Reloaded (the Oracle): "...you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now." Also: “I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.” - Isaac Asimov |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 28, 2023 17:26:25 GMT
Do you just thumb your nose at your god, or do you say fuck you when you flip him off? Its odd how one sided these criticisms are. Why is it Jasmine is the Christian you guys single out for her behavior here when there are other professed Christians on "your side" of the political spectrum engaged in similar bad behavior here? |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 28, 2023 17:49:28 GMT
I don't know how this is possible, just from a purely analytical standpoint. You have Christians at 30% of the global population, Muslims at 25%, Hindus at 15%, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews... How is it that Christians are the greatest single cause creating atheism in say... the Middle East? In SE Asia? Christians are not even the majority of people in the world nor are there more Christians than the other religions combined. I think you can certainly fault Christians for turning away some chunk of Atheists, but certainly no where near being the single greatest cause. If you look at some of the worlds renowned Atheists, they usually focus their arguments and reason on purely logical/scientific rejections of any faith, they don't base it on any hard feelings they have towards any other religions followers let alone Christians. Have you read anything by Brennan Manning? Pretty sure he's not making a statement from a scientific, sociological, or historical perspective. And his context was North America. As for "some of the world's renowned Atheists," regardless of their arguments, I don't think their decisions are necessarily based on logic, but on underlying motivations. From The Matrix Reloaded (the Oracle): "...you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now." Also: “I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.” - Isaac Asimov No, I am not very familiar with Brenning Manning, but the quote you provided here was not a comment on North America and his claim was not about why HE was an atheist. I am evaluating his comment you presented here, and as I articulated, it is woefully lacking. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 28, 2023 20:52:30 GMT
Have you read anything by Brennan Manning? Pretty sure he's not making a statement from a scientific, sociological, or historical perspective. And his context was North America. As for "some of the world's renowned Atheists," regardless of their arguments, I don't think their decisions are necessarily based on logic, but on underlying motivations. From The Matrix Reloaded (the Oracle): "...you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now." Also: “I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.” - Isaac Asimov No, I am not very familiar with Brenning Manning, but the quote you provided here was not a comment on North America and his claim was not about why HE was an atheist. I am evaluating his comment you presented here, and as I articulated, it is woefully lacking. That's a shame, because I think there is merit to what he is saying in our context. I don't at all believe that people reject Christianity "because they got smarter" (or whatever). I think it has pretty well everything to do with their encounters with Christians. And yeah, I think that's probably true worldwide. |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 28, 2023 21:19:26 GMT
No, I am not very familiar with Brenning Manning, but the quote you provided here was not a comment on North America and his claim was not about why HE was an atheist. I am evaluating his comment you presented here, and as I articulated, it is woefully lacking. That's a shame, because I think there is merit to what he is saying in our context. I don't at all believe that people reject Christianity "because they got smarter" (or whatever). I think it has pretty well everything to do with their encounters with Christians. And yeah, I think that's probably true worldwide. You did not present the quote with your wanting to evaluate it "in our context" I didn't say people got smarter and that is why they reject Christianity. I merely said that most of the prominent atheists I have seen put forth arguments for why they are atheist that have nothing to do with Christians not being perfect Christians enough. Even then, Atheism is not a rejection of Christianity... it is a rejection of belief in a higher being(s) at all. You assert it is probably true worldwide... based on what? Christianity is not dominant world wide and as I pointed out already, is only like 30% of the worlds population. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 28, 2023 22:00:26 GMT
That's a shame, because I think there is merit to what he is saying in our context. I don't at all believe that people reject Christianity "because they got smarter" (or whatever). I think it has pretty well everything to do with their encounters with Christians. And yeah, I think that's probably true worldwide. You did not present the quote with your wanting to evaluate it "in our context" I didn't say people got smarter and that is why they reject Christianity. I merely said that most of the prominent atheists I have seen put forth arguments for why they are atheist that have nothing to do with Christians not being perfect Christians enough. Even then, Atheism is not a rejection of Christianity... it is a rejection of belief in a higher being(s) at all. You assert it is probably true worldwide... based on what? Christianity is not dominant world wide and as I pointed out already, is only like 30% of the worlds population. No, you're misunderstanding. People that become atheists, when attempting to use arguments of facts and logic, state implicitly or explicitly that they "got smarter" and thus became atheists. I assert it is true worldwide. Sure, a guess. Christianity is still the world's "largest religion," but we're talking about people becoming atheists—not people becoming Muslim or Hindu. Atheists are still quite a minority in the world. Where are most of them? In the western world. What was their cultural background? Christian. I'm sure there are exceptions, but we're not talking about exceptions here. But here's an international "non-atheist" example: Gandhi who, though he disliked Christianity, liked "your Jesus." Even overseas, Christianity has been so intertwined with western culture, and in too many cases with colonizing western culture, that the behaviour of Christians has turned people off of Christianity. But let's take a step back: around the world (particularly in Asia, South America, and Africa), Christianity is growing and flourishing. Why is it shrinking in the west? |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 29, 2023 23:58:07 GMT
You did not present the quote with your wanting to evaluate it "in our context" I didn't say people got smarter and that is why they reject Christianity. I merely said that most of the prominent atheists I have seen put forth arguments for why they are atheist that have nothing to do with Christians not being perfect Christians enough. Even then, Atheism is not a rejection of Christianity... it is a rejection of belief in a higher being(s) at all. You assert it is probably true worldwide... based on what? Christianity is not dominant world wide and as I pointed out already, is only like 30% of the worlds population. No, you're misunderstanding. People that become atheists, when attempting to use arguments of facts and logic, state implicitly or explicitly that they "got smarter" and thus became atheists. I assert it is true worldwide. Sure, a guess. Christianity is still the world's "largest religion," but we're talking about people becoming atheists—not people becoming Muslim or Hindu. Atheists are still quite a minority in the world. Where are most of them? In the western world. What was their cultural background? Christian. I'm sure there are exceptions, but we're not talking about exceptions here. But here's an international "non-atheist" example: Gandhi who, though he disliked Christianity, liked "your Jesus." Even overseas, Christianity has been so intertwined with western culture, and in too many cases with colonizing western culture, that the behaviour of Christians has turned people off of Christianity. But let's take a step back: around the world (particularly in Asia, South America, and Africa), Christianity is growing and flourishing. Why is it shrinking in the west? Well... your position is coming off as a bit confusing when first you say: "I don't at all believe that people reject Christianity "because they got smarter" (or whatever)." So, you don't believe that is what they are doing... but then you respond to me again now that: "People that become atheists, when attempting to use arguments of facts and logic, state implicitly or explicitly that they "got smarter" and thus became atheists." So, now you do believe that is what they are doing only with the qualifier of implicitly or explicitly... Well, quite frankly, if all you have is a guess, then there isn't much to go on from here. I put forth an argument for my position, I challenge you to do the same, and you just balk and say it was a guess. As to your assertion that most Atheists are in the Western world... what do you base that on? The stats I am looking at would put China, Japan, Vietnam, and India at the top of the list. Last I checked, there certainly were not a lot of Christians there... Well, there are lots of things we could look at for why Christianity is growing other places than here, but this is a whole different discussion now. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 30, 2023 1:26:46 GMT
No, you're misunderstanding. People that become atheists, when attempting to use arguments of facts and logic, state implicitly or explicitly that they "got smarter" and thus became atheists. I assert it is true worldwide. Sure, a guess. Christianity is still the world's "largest religion," but we're talking about people becoming atheists—not people becoming Muslim or Hindu. Atheists are still quite a minority in the world. Where are most of them? In the western world. What was their cultural background? Christian. I'm sure there are exceptions, but we're not talking about exceptions here. But here's an international "non-atheist" example: Gandhi who, though he disliked Christianity, liked "your Jesus." Even overseas, Christianity has been so intertwined with western culture, and in too many cases with colonizing western culture, that the behaviour of Christians has turned people off of Christianity. But let's take a step back: around the world (particularly in Asia, South America, and Africa), Christianity is growing and flourishing. Why is it shrinking in the west? Well... your position is coming off as a bit confusing when first you say: "I don't at all believe that people reject Christianity "because they got smarter" (or whatever)." So, you don't believe that is what they are doing... but then you respond to me again now that: "People that become atheists, when attempting to use arguments of facts and logic, state implicitly or explicitly that they "got smarter" and thus became atheists." So, now you do believe that is what they are doing only with the qualifier of implicitly or explicitly... Well, quite frankly, if all you have is a guess, then there isn't much to go on from here. I put forth an argument for my position, I challenge you to do the same, and you just balk and say it was a guess. As to your assertion that most Atheists are in the Western world... what do you base that on? The stats I am looking at would put China, Japan, Vietnam, and India at the top of the list. Last I checked, there certainly were not a lot of Christians there... Well, there are lots of things we could look at for why Christianity is growing other places than here, but this is a whole different discussion now. You understand that putting "got smarter" in quotes generally implies it's not to be taken literally? Also...how many Christians do you think are in places like China and India? |
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Post by william on Jul 30, 2023 6:03:14 GMT
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning I not an atheist, but I think it has more to do with the silliness of grown men and women being ready to fight and die over something that makes Santa clause and the Easter bunny appear rational. |
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Post by william on Jul 30, 2023 6:07:51 GMT
Do you just thumb your nose at your god, or do you say fuck you when you flip him off? Its odd how one sided these criticisms are. Why is it Jasmine is the Christian you guys single out for her behavior here when there are other professed Christians on "your side" of the political spectrum engaged in similar bad behavior here? Point me at one who has ever made as disgusting comment as Jaz just made and ill give them a go. |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 30, 2023 13:05:47 GMT
Its odd how one sided these criticisms are. Why is it Jasmine is the Christian you guys single out for her behavior here when there are other professed Christians on "your side" of the political spectrum engaged in similar bad behavior here? Point me at one who has ever made as disgusting comment as Jaz just made and ill give them a go. This doesn’t help your case, it only proves you draw the line purposefully at Jasmine. |
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Post by william on Jul 30, 2023 13:11:14 GMT
Point me at one who has ever made as disgusting comment as Jaz just made and ill give them a go. This doesn’t help your case, it only proves you draw the line purposefully at Jasmine. Now there's a stretch. I comment to a specific post in a specific thread and get attacked for not responding to ... ? |
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Post by Monster Man on Jul 30, 2023 13:18:55 GMT
This doesn’t help your case, it only proves you draw the line purposefully at Jasmine. Now there's a stretch. I comment to a specific post in a specific thread and get attacked for not responding to ... ? Yes, thanks for the recap for what you did here. The point is that you and bama don’t do the same for others. Are you pretending Jasmine is the only person who behaves poorly here or that she is the only one who behaves poorly while promoting her being a Christian? |
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