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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 14:33:50 GMT
I'm a fan of these movies, and recently watched one and realized that wow, blacks are portrayed very poorly. They are dirty, dumb, and assumed criminals.
My question for you Trumpers is whether you think these movies are appropriate for today.
I say no, though I would not get rid of them either. I will watch them with my children, and explain to them that it was a different time, and that is why we are still dealing with racial problems today.
Your thoughts?
Freon
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 15:00:00 GMT
I think they are an accurate portrayal of reality. The difference is that people used to acknowledge reality. Now they don't. Would you be ok, then, if we acknowledged the reality that you are a dumb redneck?
I am not calling you that, but it is really no different than your comment.
Freon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 15:00:40 GMT
I'm a fan of these movies, and recently watched one and realized that wow, blacks are portrayed very poorly. They are dirty, dumb, and assumed criminals.
My question for you Trumpers is whether you think these movies are appropriate for today.
I say no, though I would not get rid of them either. I will watch them with my children, and explain to them that it was a different time, and that is why we are still dealing with racial problems today.
Your thoughts?
Freon
The portrayal of black criminals in those and other similar movies was accurate and, furthermore, those movies are still accurate today. Are you really this unaware of the epidemic crime rates and the terrible lack of education in the black community today?
In some large cities, 60-75% of the crime is committed by blacks, usually against other blacks. Young black men commit 50% of the murders in this country every year.
Try less BLM propaganda and more statistically validated reality next time.
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Post by Fiddler on Aug 26, 2020 15:25:42 GMT
I'm a fan of these movies, and recently watched one and realized that wow, blacks are portrayed very poorly. They are dirty, dumb, and assumed criminals.
My question for you Trumpers is whether you think these movies are appropriate for today.
I say no, though I would not get rid of them either. I will watch them with my children, and explain to them that it was a different time, and that is why we are still dealing with racial problems today.
Your thoughts?
Freon
Of course it's an accurate portrayal of today .. rogue cops flaunting law and order .. Obvious ..
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 15:37:07 GMT
I'm a fan of these movies, and recently watched one and realized that wow, blacks are portrayed very poorly. They are dirty, dumb, and assumed criminals.
My question for you Trumpers is whether you think these movies are appropriate for today.
I say no, though I would not get rid of them either. I will watch them with my children, and explain to them that it was a different time, and that is why we are still dealing with racial problems today.
Your thoughts?
Freon
The portrayal of black criminals in those and other similar movies was accurate and, furthermore, those movies are still accurate today. Are you really this unaware of the epidemic crime rates and the terrible lack of education in the black community today?
In some large cities, 60-75% of the crime is committed by blacks, usually against other blacks. Young black men commit 50% of the murders in this country every year.
Try less BLM propaganda and more statistically validated reality next time.
Actually, it is YOUR misunderstanding of the data, and the inaccurate racial assumptions you cling to, which defines racism.
I'm actually in a seminar right at this moment, led by the lead epidemiologists from Georgia, who are discussing the racial inequalities tied to COVID. According to you, it is blacks themselves which makes them the highest demographic hit by this disease. Maybe they are dirty, or have bad habits, or something intrinsic to their race which makes them 3x more likely to get COVID.
It would not even occur to you that they are more segregated in Georgia today than during Jim Crow. That the systemic racism that has caused this segregation also keeps them less educated (through less funded schools), poor (fewer job opportunities close by them), forcing them to live closer together, to have to use public transportation to get to work, thus increasing their likelihood of getting COVID. Nope, it's because they are black.
If you truly believe those tropes, then you are ignorant, paleo. You ARE just a southern white boy. You are racist, and happy about it.
Freon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 16:36:53 GMT
Actually, it is YOUR misunderstanding of the data, and the inaccurate racial assumptions you cling to, which defines racism.I'm actually in a seminar right at this moment, led by the lead epidemiologists from Georgia, who are discussing the racial inequalities tied to COVID. According to you, it is blacks themselves which makes them the highest demographic hit by this disease. Maybe they are dirty, or have bad habits, or something intrinsic to their race which makes them 3x more likely to get COVID. "According to you"? That is appallingly, stupidly false. Either post where I've said this or anything like it or admit that what you posted above is a lie. It would not even occur to you that they are more segregated in Georgia today than during Jim Crow. That the systemic racism that has caused this segregation also keeps them less educated (through less funded schools), poor (fewer job opportunities close by them), forcing them to live closer together, to have to use public transportation to get to work, thus increasing their likelihood of getting COVID. Nope, it's because they are black. And it would never occur to YOU that blacks in that area have self segregated, just as they have in so many other cities. Your fictional "systemic racism" had nothing to do with that. EVERYBODY in big cities lives close together. EVERYONE. All races use public transportation in those cities, not just blacks. Per student spending in Fulton County, GA is higher than the state average. Turns out that it is one's desire to become educated that's far more important than how much money is thrown at schools. But, hey, that's just common sense; you wouldn't understand. As far as higher COVID numbers, different groups of people always have different medical issues. I've never said that blacks are to blame for those numbers in their community. I have heard stories of 1000+ person block parties in some black communities during the pandemic, which is not smart. But that would be dumb for any group. If you truly believe those tropes, So, you consider facts and widely known statistics to be "tropes", just a figure of speech? That's not smart, so going forward, please don't claim that you ever were. We now know better. ......then you are ignorant, paleo. You ARE just a southern white boy. You are racist, and happy about it. Freon I grow tired of these blatantly dishonest accusations of racism, which are usually employed as the last refuge of a liberal dingleberry who can't refute the facts that I have revealed to them. Freon, that accusation is neither true nor supported by the evidence. If you continue to resort to this false "racist" smear, no one here will ever mistake you for an intelligent poster. |
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Post by Fiddler on Aug 26, 2020 16:58:05 GMT
Actually, it is YOUR misunderstanding of the data, and the inaccurate racial assumptions you cling to, which defines racism.I'm actually in a seminar right at this moment, led by the lead epidemiologists from Georgia, who are discussing the racial inequalities tied to COVID. According to you, it is blacks themselves which makes them the highest demographic hit by this disease. Maybe they are dirty, or have bad habits, or something intrinsic to their race which makes them 3x more likely to get COVID. "According to you"? That is appallingly, stupidly false. Either post where I've said this or anything like it or admit that what you posted above is a lie. It would not even occur to you that they are more segregated in Georgia today than during Jim Crow. That the systemic racism that has caused this segregation also keeps them less educated (through less funded schools), poor (fewer job opportunities close by them), forcing them to live closer together, to have to use public transportation to get to work, thus increasing their likelihood of getting COVID. Nope, it's because they are black. And it would never occur to YOU that blacks in that area have self segregated, just as they have in so many other cities. Your fictional "systemic racism" had nothing to do with that. EVERYBODY in big cities lives close together. EVERYONE. All races use public transportation in those cities, not just blacks. Per student spending in Fulton County, GA is higher than the state average. Turns out that it is one's desire to become educated that's far more important than how much money is thrown at schools. But, hey, that's just common sense; you wouldn't understand. As far as higher COVID numbers, different groups of people always have different medical issues. I've never said that blacks are to blame for those numbers in their community. I have heard stories of 1000+ person block parties in some black communities during the pandemic, which is not smart. But that would be dumb for any group. If you truly believe those tropes, So, you consider facts and widely known statistics to be "tropes", just a figure of speech? That's not smart, so going forward, please don't claim that you ever were. We now know better. ......then you are ignorant, paleo. You ARE just a southern white boy. You are racist, and happy about it. Freon I grow tired of these blatantly dishonest accusations of racism, which are usually employed as the last refuge of a liberal dingleberry who can't refute the facts that I have revealed to them. Freon, that accusation is neither true nor supported by the evidence. If you continue to resort to this false "racist" smear, no one here will ever mistake you for an intelligent poster.
I'll always take facts as 'the last refuge' .. Something you will never be able to claim.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 26, 2020 17:06:08 GMT
I think they are an accurate portrayal of reality. The difference is that people used to acknowledge reality. Now they don't. Would you be ok, then, if we acknowledged the reality that you are a dumb redneck?
I am not calling you that, but it is really no different than your comment.
Freon
More accurately, D-ment is a not too bright neo-Nazi.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 17:07:42 GMT
Would you be ok, then, if we acknowledged the reality that you are a dumb redneck?
I am not calling you that, but it is really no different than your comment.
Freon
More accurately, D-ment is a not too bright neo-Nazi.
I thought that was a pr-requisite for being a neo-nazi.
Freon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 17:26:01 GMT
This discussion of action films and politics has interested me for a while now. I'm a libertarian with extremely critical views about law enforcement and the police.
Yet when I watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Dirty Harry, Robocop, and similar movies, I often find myself rooting for the police. I do recognize there is a disconnect between my tastes in fiction and how I feel about the police in reality.
How do I square this?
I can explain it thus: fiction and reality are two very different things. In these police films, the cops are generally the good guys. They are not policing for profit, escalating traffic stops, looking merely for drugs or contraband, or seizing private property without charges or a crime.
On the contrary, in these films, the cops go after truly bad people (the kind who harm others) and do so at extreme risk to their own lives.
In fiction, the police are altruists. It would be almost impossible not to root for them.
Regarding the portrayal of black folks in movies, I am reminded of the insight that women are often presented in film/media in a fashion that speaks to the "male gaze," ie the perspective of men.
Perhaps the way media portrayed black folks as criminals and thugs can be similarly attributed to trying to satisfy the "white gaze."
And if some of our right-wing friends can be taken at their word, this marketing strategy was very effective. Many of us still believe that black skin equates to criminal, predator, or threat. They coyly mask their racism in talk about crime statistics but no one is fooled.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 17:38:03 GMT
This discussion of action films and politics has interested me for a while now. I'm a libertarian with extremely critical views about law enforcement and the police. Yet when I watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Dirty Harry, Robocop, and similar movies, I often find myself rooting for the police. I do recognize there is a disconnect between my tastes in fiction and how I feel about the police in reality. How do I square this? I can explain it thus: fiction and reality are two very different things. In these police films, the cops are generally the good guys. They are not policing for profit, escalating traffic stops, looking merely for drugs or contraband, or seizing private property without charges or a crime. On the contrary, in these films, the cops go after truly bad people (the kind who harm others) and do so at extreme risk to their own lives. In fiction, the police are altruists. It would be almost impossible not to root for them. Regarding the portrayal of black folks in movies, I am reminded of the insight that women are often presented in film/media in a fashion that speaks to the "male gaze," ie the perspective of men. Perhaps the way media used to portray black folks as criminals and thugs can be similarly attributed to trying to satisfy the "white gaze." I think that is a fair interpretation. And to be fair to Dirty Harry, the bad cops are routed by the good cops (Harry), as well as the inaccurate tropes about blacks.
But think about how many movies from the 80s (and earlier) were about vigilantism. Justice meted out by the people. And eye for an eye. It was about living out the revenge trope that none of us can do for real (except, apparently, archie).
What this suggests to me is that the movie gives white people, myself included, the emotional satisfaction of living out their own justice/revenge fantasy. There is no assumption that we/I would do it for real.
Freon
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 26, 2020 17:38:03 GMT
More accurately, D-ment is a not too bright neo-Nazi.
I thought that was a pr-requisite for being a neo-nazi.
Freon
It is what it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 17:47:32 GMT
This discussion of action films and politics has interested me for a while now. I'm a libertarian with extremely critical views about law enforcement and the police. Yet when I watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Dirty Harry, Robocop, and similar movies, I often find myself rooting for the police. I do recognize there is a disconnect between my tastes in fiction and how I feel about the police in reality. How do I square this? I can explain it thus: fiction and reality are two very different things. In these police films, the cops are generally the good guys. They are not policing for profit, escalating traffic stops, looking merely for drugs or contraband, or seizing private property without charges or a crime. On the contrary, in these films, the cops go after truly bad people (the kind who harm others) and do so at extreme risk to their own lives. In fiction, the police are altruists. It would be almost impossible not to root for them. Regarding the portrayal of black folks in movies, I am reminded of the insight that women are often presented in film/media in a fashion that speaks to the "male gaze," ie the perspective of men. Perhaps the way media used to portray black folks as criminals and thugs can be similarly attributed to trying to satisfy the "white gaze." I think that is a fair interpretation. And to be fair to Dirty Harry, the bad cops are routed by the good cops (Harry), as well as the inaccurate tropes about blacks.
But think about how many movies from the 80s (and earlier) were about vigilantism. Justice meted out by the people. And eye for an eye. It was about living out the revenge trope that none of us can do for real (except, apparently, archie).
What this suggests to me is that the movie gives white people, myself included, the emotional satisfaction of living out their own justice/revenge fantasy. There is no assumption that we/I would do it for real.
Freon
Yep, I think you're right on the money with this revenge fantasy insight. The Death Wish films capture that sentiment perfectly. Part of this might be understood as a response to the rise of black people as equals in society, and the concomitant loss of status for white folks. No doubt that created some resentment, especially among white folks on the lower rungs of the social ladder. They might have been toothless, poor and in relative deprivation, but they could always reassure themselves that they were better than those evil negroes. Perhaps we can't go out and lynch a darkie for drinking from the wrong water fountain, but we can scratch the itch by living vicariously through Charles Bronson. |
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RWB
Legend
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Post by RWB on Aug 26, 2020 17:54:19 GMT
This discussion of action films and politics has interested me for a while now. I'm a libertarian with extremely critical views about law enforcement and the police. Yet when I watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Dirty Harry, Robocop, and similar movies, I often find myself rooting for the police. I do recognize there is a disconnect between my tastes in fiction and how I feel about the police in reality. How do I square this? I can explain it thus: fiction and reality are two very different things. In these police films, the cops are generally the good guys. They are not policing for profit, escalating traffic stops, looking merely for drugs or contraband, or seizing private property without charges or a crime. On the contrary, in these films, the cops go after truly bad people (the kind who harm others) and do so at extreme risk to their own lives. In fiction, the police are altruists. It would be almost impossible not to root for them. Regarding the portrayal of black folks in movies, I am reminded of the insight that women are often presented in film/media in a fashion that speaks to the "male gaze," ie the perspective of men. Perhaps the way media portrayed black folks as criminals and thugs can be similarly attributed to trying to satisfy the "white gaze." And if some of our right-wing friends can be taken at their word, this marketing strategy was very effective. Many of us still believe that black skin equates to criminal, predator, or threat. They coyly mask their racism in talk about crime statistics but no one is fooled. why do you keep trying to pass yourself off as a Libertarian you are a far left Radical anarchist that hates America and supports communism. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 17:56:00 GMT
This discussion of action films and politics has interested me for a while now. I'm a libertarian with extremely critical views about law enforcement and the police. Yet when I watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Dirty Harry, Robocop, and similar movies, I often find myself rooting for the police. I do recognize there is a disconnect between my tastes in fiction and how I feel about the police in reality. How do I square this? I can explain it thus: fiction and reality are two very different things. In these police films, the cops are generally the good guys. They are not policing for profit, escalating traffic stops, looking merely for drugs or contraband, or seizing private property without charges or a crime. On the contrary, in these films, the cops go after truly bad people (the kind who harm others) and do so at extreme risk to their own lives. In fiction, the police are altruists. It would be almost impossible not to root for them. Regarding the portrayal of black folks in movies, I am reminded of the insight that women are often presented in film/media in a fashion that speaks to the "male gaze," ie the perspective of men. Perhaps the way media portrayed black folks as criminals and thugs can be similarly attributed to trying to satisfy the "white gaze." And if some of our right-wing friends can be taken at their word, this marketing strategy was very effective. Many of us still believe that black skin equates to criminal, predator, or threat. They coyly mask their racism in talk about crime statistics but no one is fooled. why do you keep trying to pass yourself off as a Libertarian you are a far left Radical anarchist that hates America and supports communism. Why even bother posting if you're going to say such stupid stuff? You have no idea what libertarianism is. Nor do you know what communism is. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 18:00:00 GMT
I think that is a fair interpretation. And to be fair to Dirty Harry, the bad cops are routed by the good cops (Harry), as well as the inaccurate tropes about blacks.
But think about how many movies from the 80s (and earlier) were about vigilantism. Justice meted out by the people. And eye for an eye. It was about living out the revenge trope that none of us can do for real (except, apparently, archie).
What this suggests to me is that the movie gives white people, myself included, the emotional satisfaction of living out their own justice/revenge fantasy. There is no assumption that we/I would do it for real.
Freon
Yep, I think you're right on the money with this revenge fantasy talk. The Death Wish films capture that sentiment perfectly. Part of this might be understood as a response to the rise of black people as equals in society, and the concomitant loss of status for white folks. No doubt that created some resentment, especially among the white folks on the lower rungs of the social ladder. They might have been toothless, poor and in relative deprivation, but, they could always reassure themselves that they were better than those pitiful negroes. When that all changed, it makes sense that some feelings of resentment could creep in. "Why them? Why not me?" Perhaps we can't go out and lynch a darkie for drinking from the wrong water fountain, but we can scratch the itch by living vicariously through Charles Bronson. So I agree with you, but I also have all the Death Wish movies. And all the Dirty Harry's.
Which based on your statement, says a lot about me. When I originally watched them in my teens, the racial dimension never even occurred to me. I still don't understand racism. It's such a meaningless method of categorizing people, I am surprised by how much import people attach to it. But attach to it, they clearly do.
Now when I watch these movies, or ones from the 60s, 50s, and 40s, I'm like, WHOA, we were a VERY different country at that time.
That's why I think Blazing Saddles is so brilliant. It satirizes average white people. The heroes were the minorities. And it did so right smack in the middle of extreme racial tension. It was the 'Revenge of the Nerds' of its time.
Freon
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 18:03:44 GMT
Yep, I think you're right on the money with this revenge fantasy talk. The Death Wish films capture that sentiment perfectly. Part of this might be understood as a response to the rise of black people as equals in society, and the concomitant loss of status for white folks. No doubt that created some resentment, especially among the white folks on the lower rungs of the social ladder. They might have been toothless, poor and in relative deprivation, but, they could always reassure themselves that they were better than those pitiful negroes. When that all changed, it makes sense that some feelings of resentment could creep in. "Why them? Why not me?" Perhaps we can't go out and lynch a darkie for drinking from the wrong water fountain, but we can scratch the itch by living vicariously through Charles Bronson. So I agree with you, but I also have all the Death Wish movies. And all the Dirty Harry's.
Which based on your statement, says a lot about me. When I originally watched them in my teens, the racial dimension never even occurred to me. I still don't understand racism. It's such a meaningless method of categorizing people, I am surprised by how much import people attach to it. But attach to it, they clearly do.
Now when I watch these movies, or ones from the 60s, 50s, and 40s, I'm like, WHOA, we were a VERY different country at that time.
That's why I think Blazing Saddles is so brilliant. It satirizes average white people. The heroes were the minorities. And it did so right smack in the middle of extreme racial tension. It was the 'Revenge of the Nerds' of its time.
Freon
Funny thing is I have them all, too, and I watch the Death Wish films relatively frequently. There is something about them that I enjoy. I think its partly Bronson himself but also the city and the cars, clothes and the general aesthetic. It reminds me of a world that I used to know, which no longer exists. If nothing else these are great time capsules. |
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RWB
Legend
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Post by RWB on Aug 26, 2020 18:20:43 GMT
why do you keep trying to pass yourself off as a Libertarian you are a far left Radical anarchist that hates America and supports communism. Why even bother posting if you're going to say such stupid stuff? You have no idea what libertarianism is. Nor do you know what communism is. maybe you should Google Libertarian you sir are no Libertarian. No Libertarian supports Anarchists looting and burning down innocent citizens property and killing police officers. You may not be a communist BUT you are definitely an America hating Anarchist |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 18:27:07 GMT
So I agree with you, but I also have all the Death Wish movies. And all the Dirty Harry's.
Which based on your statement, says a lot about me. When I originally watched them in my teens, the racial dimension never even occurred to me. I still don't understand racism. It's such a meaningless method of categorizing people, I am surprised by how much import people attach to it. But attach to it, they clearly do.
Now when I watch these movies, or ones from the 60s, 50s, and 40s, I'm like, WHOA, we were a VERY different country at that time.
That's why I think Blazing Saddles is so brilliant. It satirizes average white people. The heroes were the minorities. And it did so right smack in the middle of extreme racial tension. It was the 'Revenge of the Nerds' of its time.
Freon
Funny thing is I have them all, too, and I watch the Death Wish films relatively frequently. There is something about them that I enjoy. I think its partly Bronson himself but also the city and the cars, clothes and the general aesthetic. It reminds me of a world that I used to know, which no longer exists. If nothing else these are great time capsules. Time capsules is a really cool way of looking at them.
I actually went to school with Bronson's daughter, Zuleika.
Freon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 18:30:06 GMT
"According to you"? That is appallingly, stupidly false. Either post where I've said this or anything like it or admit that what you posted above is a lie. And it would never occur to YOU that blacks in that area have self segregated, just as they have in so many other cities. Your fictional "systemic racism" had nothing to do with that. EVERYBODY in big cities lives close together. EVERYONE. All races use public transportation in those cities, not just blacks. Per student spending in Fulton County, GA is higher than the state average. Turns out that it is one's desire to become educated that's far more important than how much money is thrown at schools. But, hey, that's just common sense; you wouldn't understand. As far as higher COVID numbers, different groups of people always have different medical issues. I've never said that blacks are to blame for those numbers in their community. I have heard stories of 1000+ person block parties in some black communities during the pandemic, which is not smart. But that would be dumb for any group. So, you consider facts and widely known statistics to be "tropes", just a figure of speech? That's not smart, so going forward, please don't claim that you ever were. We now know better. I grow tired of these blatantly dishonest accusations of racism, which are usually employed as the last refuge of a liberal dingleberry who can't refute the facts that I have revealed to them. Freon, that accusation is neither true nor supported by the evidence. If you continue to resort to this false "racist" smear, no one here will ever mistake you for an intelligent poster.
I'll always take facts as 'the last refuge' .. Something you will never be able to claim.
Isn't it interesting who shows up when I mention the machinations of a liberal dingleberry. Best. Poster. Child. Ever. |
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