The US, Iran and the Middle East

Fortunately it seems we have more grounded adults, rather than extreme reactionaries, in charge right now, that will not just abandon our ally like this. 

Also, Israel is responding to the daily acts of war Hezbollah are engaged in with the rocket launches into Israel. 

Ah yes... you want hostile forces to dictate to us what we can and can't do by cowering to their threats of force. I see. 

Your position is tantamount to telling the rape victim she deserved it because she should have known better than to wear that short skirt. (yay blowback!)

You can avoid a broader conflict by the threat of force, just as you are here wanting to cower to others threats of force. If it works on you, it should work on them too. 

Ah yes... it is our ally who is blowing up the region when they respond to their being blown up by rockets on a near daily basis. 

What you are apparently down for is Israeli people just taking it because you are scared more bad people in the region get uber mad at them and us for fighting back. 

Maybe the analogy is that you think it is good to watch the woman get raped because you don't want to upset the other frat boys in the room cheering it on. 

I have addressed what you have written here each step of the way. 

a) A broader regional conflict would undermine our stated counterterrorism mission

No, adversaries in the region may choose to engage in more violence in retaliation for Israel defending themselves from terrorists... and you seem to think that the solution to "counterterrorism" is to ignore the terrorism. 


b) Israel is already achieving its aims without a ground invasion

Clearly not. Hezbollah has been engaged in near daily missile attacks since the war with Gaza began and has not let up. You did not specify "ground invasion" at first either. Israel at this time has been demanding Hezbollah stop. Are you saying Israel has achieved the submission of Hezbollah now and Hezbollah has agreed to cease hostilities against them? That has been achieved?

c) A ground invasion of Lebanon would probably provoke a wider war

Then you fight that war... instead of cowering to them. 

Not making up anything. You are sitting here talking about terrorism while decrying Israel fighting against terrorists. Or... is it that you think Hezbollah are not terrorists now?



No, it would be the outcome of others. It is not us starting a regional war. It would be the region starting a war. What you want is to cowardly fail to act to support our ally in their war against terrorists out of fear of this possibility.



No, the issue would be the actions of others in the region. If they want to go to war or engage in more hostilities, we respond to that, we don't cower in fear because of that possibility and abandon our ally.



This was the comment I initially responded to:

"If Israel wants to start a war in Lebanon (because the last 2 went so well), they can do it without expecting us to cover their ass and taking any hits over it."





Exactly. So, no, Israel is not achieving their aims yet.




That is what you demand.



By expecting Israel to keep taking near-daily missile attacks from Hezbollah and having to live with the repercussions that it causes on their people, from the displacement to the random deaths and life under sirens?



Oh crap... there you go again, victim blaming and justifying terrorism. The Houthis are terrorists.



That seems to have been the Biden plan for the last year now. And it seems to be your plan that Israel should just keep taking the near-daily missile attacks. I think Israel has had enough of your plan. And now your plan is to abandon them if they keep fighting back.

Oh, so you are OK with Israel doing what it takes to defeat Hezbollah now?



You were using the term "we" here: "If we get engaged in a regional war"

I am just continuing on in the pluralistic language. The point I made is that any reaction is the fault of those reacting, not Israel for fighting Hezbollah. But instead of addressing that, you want to feign some personal attack because I am tearing apart your bad arguments to abandon our ally because you are worried that might make bad people upset.



How do they have a negative impact?



And did you read when I said that was not what you initially said but then went on to act like it was? You want to cower to Hezbollah if it comes to a ground invasion.



By you demanding Israel not launch a ground invasion or your original more vague assertion about war in general.



So why are you on here worried about a ground invasion?



Here you go again... no, they would not have the drones or missiles if Iran was not a state sponsor of terrorism through proxies like these.



No, because Iran has a vested interest in promoting their own state-sponsored terrorism goals around the Middle East. Yet again, you are here blaming us for everything and avoiding placing the blame with those doing these things.



More victim blaming.



It is not a strawman to point out the bad arguments you are making.


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Can you actually respond to what I said instead of saying I am making stuff up?

Again, I think the Israelis have had enough of the likes of you and are actually dealing with the threat now. And your response here is that we should abandon them.

For the millionth time now, this point has not been getting through to you... It is not their actions that are negatively impacting our interests you are concerned about.

It is the response from others in the region.

Again, your brilliant foreign policy here is to let thugs in the region dictate to us what our foreign policy should be because you are uber scared they might get upset.

Never mind the stupidity of such a vague position... that you support Israel defending themselves, but only up to whatever point that makes others in the region too mad.

Give me a break with this chickenshit, unprincipled BS.



I don't have to ask any damn thing. It was you who came on here saying screw Israel if they want a war.



It is not Israels war in Gaza. It was Israel's response to Hamas attacking them, raping their women, killing families in their homes, gunning kids down at a concert, torturing people, and taking Hostages.

Our forces are being targeted because there are bad people in the region, that is not Israels fault nor their fault because they are destroying the thugs who did what they did to them.

And your response is to cower to the thugs.



Mocking your shit positions on here is not a personal attack. You should feel bad though for the garbage you post.



I have not made up anything.

AFTER the fact. The context of my post was to say what you initially said. That was abundantly clear.



Yeah, your initial post here was some flippant response about screw them if they want to start a war... that we wouldn't help them.

You are not asking them to consider anything, you are just outright saying we shouldn't support our ally because you are scared about other thugs in the region getting mad.




If it comes to a ground invasion to stop them... you certainly are demanding they cower or we should abandon them.




Then clearly they don't think things are working...




You have more care for Iran than you do Israel. Holy crap.



"our" policies? You just got done complaining when I said us before... If the region chooses to engage in a larger war because Israel is defending themselves from Hezabollah, that is on the region, not on Israel or us for supporting them.

And us not backing Israel because folks like you are scared of what others will do in reaction only gives them more incentive to threaten those kinds of reaction.




Nope, just mocking your bad flippant comment about abandoning Israel.



Escalating... you keep using this BS language. Is it not an escalation on Israel's part to continue to fight to get Hezbollah to stop their aggression. Hezbollah escalated this.

You think the status quo is that Israel must live with near-daily missile attacks... just absurd.

No, it is about your unprincipled, cowardly idea of foreign policy.



You told me I had to ask a question... now you say I don't have an answer to a question I am supposed to be asking. Come back when you want to make some sense.



Just as you ignored the substance of my comment here. Asking me a dumb rhetorical question is not a response to your continued crappy language of putting the blame on Israel.



You don't want to help it, you want to cowardly hide from the bad actors because you are scared of what they will do. It is a completely unprincipled position based on cowardice and giving in to the threats of bad actors.




If you feel like a coward for pushing cowardly positions, that is your personal issue. Not mine. You can't respond to what I am saying so you feign outrage over this instead.



Your position here was not on helping them, it was on flippantly calling for us to abandon them.



This is a personal attack... because you can't actually engage honestly here.



Yet again, you blame Israel. In your world, Israel is just supposed to take their people getting assassinated and rockets launched at them, then blame them for the continued aggression when they fight to defend themselves. The instigation always starts with Israel for you. You never blame the bad thugs or hold them accountable for their actions here in any of your comments. It is pathetic.

It is a cowardly, unprincipled position and yet again you avoid what I said. I said IF they invaded. Yeah, I get that you don't think Israel should do anything if it upsets anyone else in the region too much.




Ah, I see, now you have conspiracy theories.



I am not interested in the typical Demos obfuscation game here.



I said folks like you were scared.



Any other random questions you want to ask to play your usual obfuscation game?




They are already developing a nuclear weapon. They are already incentivized to develop a nuclear weapons. Are any other stupid questions based on your cowardly notions of appeasement?



Yeah, I get that... your notion of foreign policy is acting like a coward and abandoning our ally.




Ah yes... it would be an escalation from your wanting Israel to just get attacked with missiles day after day... again, the issue is not that I don't understand the term, its your absurd use of it.

See... lets say you are on the ground getting your ass kicked. They just keep kicking you and you can't stop them by just laying on the ground. I come along and say, if you get up and throw them on the ground to defend yourself, well, that is an escalation and you are on your own bud. I don't want to upset the other bullies on the playground. If they see you get up and defend yourself any more than you are doing by just covering your head, they might get mad. It is an absurdly dumb position.



So... if it comes to an invasion to stop Hezbollah, they have a right to defend themselves and you think we should back them in that?
[/div]

Sure, when you choose to ignore what I say. Of course, you don't think criticism of your cowardly position is substantive. Shocker!



I have reduced you to lousy platitudes.



That is your excuse, the unprincipled position here is that you more cowardly fear the response of thugs than doing what is right. Supporting our ally in in our interests. Seeing the defeat of a terrorist proxy of Iran is in our interests. Seeing Israel win this fight is in our interests. Lots of things are in our interests, but you are here making the cowardly argument that we should be fearful of how thugs will react to doing the right thing and you would abandon our ally over it out of your spite.



Then quit crying about personal attacks.



I have addressed your points.



This is what folks like you do, you have every opportunity to point out the lie, to make your case, and you hide behind the vague accusations instead.



As it is also just a simple historical fact of what preceded where you want to start the clock as well. You want to only start your view of history at the mark where you can blame Israel, not what occurred before. Over and over again, you want to do more to side with and appease the thugs than support Israel.



Of course you keep avoiding it. You are still avoiding it. I did not ask you to explain why we should or should not support a ground invasion, I asked you what IF they do invade... and yet again, you run away.



When you have more than rhetorical questions trying to make a point, let me know.



Nope, this is just what you do with obfuscation.



No, it doesn't.



It was a rhetorical question mocking your asking questions to obfuscate.



What a BS dishonest answer. The point of enriching uranium is part of developing a weapon. I can read just fine.



No, you are playing into the cowardly fear of what regional thugs might do. It is a hypothetical based on fear that could start anytime... what if those thugs threaten war if Israel continues to exist... do we abandon them in total? Your position is a chickenshit one.



I understand just fine, feel free to explain how I am not. If you can.



Thanks for showing you don't understand what an analogy is and you ignored it because you can't actually put up a good argument in response other than, nuh uh!



Yet again you run and hide from answering the question. I know why, its because it exposes the stupidity of your position here.