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Post by Running Deer on May 26, 2022 13:24:22 GMT
Like whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. - Jesus
-- Allegations of sexual violence and assault were placed, the report concludes, in a secret file in the SBC Nashville headquarters. It held over 700 cases. Not only was nothing done to stop these predators from continuing their hellish crimes, staff members were reportedly told not to even engage those asking about how to stop their child from being sexually violated by a minister. Rather than a database to protect sexual abuse victims, the report reveals that these leaders had a database to protect themselves. --
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 16:44:38 GMT
That goes along with the catholic church protecting its sexual predators and even giving them promotions!!!
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Post by Mercy for All on May 26, 2022 21:36:40 GMT
Like whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. - Jesus
-- Allegations of sexual violence and assault were placed, the report concludes, in a secret file in the SBC Nashville headquarters. It held over 700 cases. Not only was nothing done to stop these predators from continuing their hellish crimes, staff members were reportedly told not to even engage those asking about how to stop their child from being sexually violated by a minister. Rather than a database to protect sexual abuse victims, the report reveals that these leaders had a database to protect themselves. --
It's horrifying. This is where institutional self-preservation trumps the individuals that the institution claims to care about. This is where institutional self-preservation betrays the very founder of the movement. The only positive here is that other denominations are taking a long, hard look at their own systems and practices. |
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Post by Running Deer on Jun 1, 2022 19:28:52 GMT
Let's hope so. This is another example of Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy. Namely: regardless of purpose, every organization tends to be run by people more interested in the power of the organization than its mission.
I do find it interesting that the two biggest sexual abuse scandals in American religion have been the Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Convention. This may be because these are the two largest American denominations. But it may also be because both denominations believe that women are forbidden to minister, and so the Old Boys Clubs that run both are less likely to take male sexual abuse seriously.
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Post by Monster Man on Jun 1, 2022 21:17:47 GMT
It is all very infuriating to me. Too many people do not have the character to stand up for what is right. Something like this should never happen and I think it is important for church leadership to have checks and balances in place. No one person or leader should have control, a pastor should be held in check by a board or elders, you should have some kind of accounting separate from all of them, and especially at the top.
It is the same thing with Ravi Zacharias. He should have had a leadership accountability process in place to hold him accountable.
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Post by Mercy for All on Jun 1, 2022 22:33:53 GMT
It is all very infuriating to me. Too many people do not have the character to stand up for what is right. Something like this should never happen and I think it is important for church leadership to have checks and balances in place. No one person or leader should have control, a pastor should be held in check by a board or elders, you should have some kind of accounting separate from all of them, and especially at the top. It is the same thing with Ravi Zacharias. He should have had a leadership accountability process in place to hold him accountable. He did have a leadership accountability process in place. It's tough to hold someone accountable when their very identity is the name of the organization. If Ravi Zacharias is ultimately what "pays my income," it's far more difficult to hold Ravi Zacharias accountable. The same was true (although to a lesser degree, because his name was not the name of the organization) of Bill Hybels at Willow Creek and Mark Driscoll at Mars Hill. Cult of celebrity is not healthy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2022 17:11:40 GMT
It is all very infuriating to me. Too many people do not have the character to stand up for what is right. Something like this should never happen and I think it is important for church leadership to have checks and balances in place. No one person or leader should have control, a pastor should be held in check by a board or elders, you should have some kind of accounting separate from all of them, and especially at the top. It is the same thing with Ravi Zacharias. He should have had a leadership accountability process in place to hold him accountable. He did have a leadership accountability process in place. It's tough to hold someone accountable when their very identity is the name of the organization. If Ravi Zacharias is ultimately what "pays my income," it's far more difficult to hold Ravi Zacharias accountable. The same was true (although to a lesser degree, because his name was not the name of the organization) of Bill Hybels at Willow Creek and Mark Driscoll at Mars Hill. Cult of celebrity is not healthy. You betcha, like the two thousand year old cult of the celebrity known as jesus for example. |
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Post by Monster Man on Jun 3, 2022 1:05:23 GMT
He did have a leadership accountability process in place. It's tough to hold someone accountable when their very identity is the name of the organization. If Ravi Zacharias is ultimately what "pays my income," it's far more difficult to hold Ravi Zacharias accountable. The same was true (although to a lesser degree, because his name was not the name of the organization) of Bill Hybels at Willow Creek and Mark Driscoll at Mars Hill. Cult of celebrity is not healthy. You betcha, like the two thousand year old cult of the celebrity known as jesus for example. We get it. You are a bigot towards Christianity. You don't have to try to sneak these comments into any thread you can. |
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Post by jasmine on Jun 3, 2022 4:16:54 GMT
Sexual abuse has roots in just about every aspect of our society: government, schools, private corporations, Hollywood, medicine, etc. - and yes, this includes churches (Christians and otherwise). To act like this is strictly a Christian church problem is pretty dishonest.
As always, I feel anyone guilty of such deviancy should be put to death. This would include anyone who covers up these crimes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2022 8:17:14 GMT
You betcha, like the two thousand year old cult of the celebrity known as jesus for example. We get it. You are a bigot towards Christianity. You don't have to try to sneak these comments into any thread you can. I don't answer to you. You are a criminal that wishes to enslave women. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jun 3, 2022 12:58:00 GMT
Sexual abuse has roots in just about every aspect of our society: government, schools, private corporations, Hollywood, medicine, etc. - and yes, this includes churches (Christians and otherwise). To act like this is strictly a Christian church problem is pretty dishonest. As always, I feel anyone guilty of such deviancy should be put to death. This would include anyone who covers up these crimes. Nobody is suggesting that this is just a "church problem." The two big issues when it comes to churches are: 1) The hypocrisy of it. 2) Protecting perpetrators and in many cases re-victimizing victims. |
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Post by Monster Man on Jun 3, 2022 13:04:54 GMT
We get it. You are a bigot towards Christianity. You don't have to try to sneak these comments into any thread you can. I don't answer to you. You are a criminal that wishes to enslave women. You literally are answering to me. All the time. It is why you are the President of my fan club... and also a bigot towards Christianity. Like most leftists though, it would not be very PC to be this bigoted towards other religions though... so at least you are politically consistent, just don't have much integrity. |
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Post by Running Deer on Jun 3, 2022 15:28:27 GMT
Sexual abuse has roots in just about every aspect of our society: government, schools, private corporations, Hollywood, medicine, etc. - and yes, this includes churches (Christians and otherwise). To act like this is strictly a Christian church problem is pretty dishonest. As always, I feel anyone guilty of such deviancy should be put to death. This would include anyone who covers up these crimes. No one is acting like this is strictly a Christian church problem. Remember all that anger directed at Penn State a few years ago? At the Boy Scouts? I find a few things interesting: 1. You immediately jump to whataboutery. "Waaaah, why us?!?! What about..." But your (alleged) Lord said, "Pull out the beam from your own eye before you pull out the speck from your own." Before you start pointing fingers at other institutions, shouldn't you follow your Lord's command by cleaning up the churches first? 2. You immediately jump to victimhood. "They're picking on Christians!!!!!" They did something really wrong, and now people are mad. That's usually how it works. 3. The Southern Baptists have been screaming about sexual morality for decades: fornication, the Sexual Revolution, pornography, divorce, employed women, women wearing pants, gays, lesbians, trans people, etc. The Southern Baptists care more about gender & sex than anything else. And it turns out their leadership is full of real perverts. 4. "Gettin' saved" is supposed to change a person. The Southern Baptists preach endlessly on the need for salvation. But all that salvation, all those sinner's prayers, all that transformation by the renewal of the mind, all that indwelling of the Holy Spirit, all that born-againing...nothing changed. Where is God's power? Where is the saving grace of the Gospel? Where is the Holy Spirit? It's just blather. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2022 16:01:20 GMT
I don't answer to you. You are a criminal that wishes to enslave women. You literally are answering to me. All the time. It is why you are the President of my fan club... and also a bigot towards Christianity. Like most leftists though, it would not be very PC to be this bigoted towards other religions though... so at least you are politically consistent, just don't have much integrity. This is typical of trolls like you. I made a remark that was valid and on point but since you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to answer it, not even lamely, then you don't even try, as the worthless troll that you are, instead of responding to the message you attack the messenger. You abuse of terms like "bigot" and apply it to a difference of opinion. You're a democrat that makes you a bigot against republicans. You detest trump then you're a bigot against crooks and liars. You can't stand monster truck and its ilk then you're a bigot against trolls. That's all you ever do, never address anything but attack people the same way, again and again, no matter how many times they whipped your ass (like Jesus whipped the moneychangers), you pimple faced basement dwelling loser. |
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Post by Monster Man on Jun 3, 2022 16:08:24 GMT
You literally are answering to me. All the time. It is why you are the President of my fan club... and also a bigot towards Christianity. Like most leftists though, it would not be very PC to be this bigoted towards other religions though... so at least you are politically consistent, just don't have much integrity. This is typical of trolls like you. I made a remark that was valid and on point but since you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to answer it, not even lamely, then you don't even try, as the worthless troll that you are, instead of responding to the message you attack the messenger. You abuse of terms like "bigot" and apply it to a difference of opinion. You're a democrat that makes you a bigot against republicans. You detest trump then you're a bigot against crooks and liars. You can't stand monster truck and its ilk then you're a bigot against trolls. That's all you ever do, never address anything but attack people the same way, again and again, no matter how many times they whipped your ass (like Jesus whipped the moneychangers), you pimple faced basement dwelling loser. Of course bigots like you feel justified in their bigotry. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2022 16:15:11 GMT
This is typical of trolls like you. I made a remark that was valid and on point but since you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to answer it, not even lamely, then you don't even try, as the worthless troll that you are, instead of responding to the message you attack the messenger. You abuse of terms like "bigot" and apply it to a difference of opinion. You're a democrat that makes you a bigot against republicans. You detest trump then you're a bigot against crooks and liars. You can't stand monster truck and its ilk then you're a bigot against trolls. That's all you ever do, never address anything but attack people the same way, again and again, no matter how many times they whipped your ass (like Jesus whipped the moneychangers), you pimple faced basement dwelling loser. Of course bigots like you feel justified in their bigotry. Typical of a pimple faced basement dwelling loser. |
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Post by jasmine on Jun 4, 2022 0:17:07 GMT
Sexual abuse has roots in just about every aspect of our society: government, schools, private corporations, Hollywood, medicine, etc. - and yes, this includes churches (Christians and otherwise). To act like this is strictly a Christian church problem is pretty dishonest. As always, I feel anyone guilty of such deviancy should be put to death. This would include anyone who covers up these crimes. No one is acting like this is strictly a Christian church problem. Remember all that anger directed at Penn State a few years ago? At the Boy Scouts? I find a few things interesting: 1. You immediately jump to whataboutery. "Waaaah, why us?!?! What about..." But your (alleged) Lord said, "Pull out the beam from your own eye before you pull out the speck from your own." Before you start pointing fingers at other institutions, shouldn't you follow your Lord's command by cleaning up the churches first? 2. You immediately jump to victimhood. "They're picking on Christians!!!!!" They did something really wrong, and now people are mad. That's usually how it works. 3. The Southern Baptists have been screaming about sexual morality for decades: fornication, the Sexual Revolution, pornography, divorce, employed women, women wearing pants, gays, lesbians, trans people, etc. The Southern Baptists care more about gender & sex than anything else. And it turns out their leadership is full of real perverts. 4. "Gettin' saved" is supposed to change a person. The Southern Baptists preach endlessly on the need for salvation. But all that salvation, all those sinner's prayers, all that transformation by the renewal of the mind, all that indwelling of the Holy Spirit, all that born-againing...nothing changed. Where is God's power? Where is the saving grace of the Gospel? Where is the Holy Spirit? It's just blather. Dude, I literally said anyone involved in these abuses should be put to death. I’m not crying about you picking on Christians. You seem to neglect the fact that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is really a Christian. The Bible plainly warns us to be wary of false teachers and prophets. Becoming a Christian doesn’t suddenly make you immune to sin. My point stands that such abuse exists in just about ever corner of life. Why? Because we are all human, and humans are subject to failing miserably. That’s why we need God in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2022 5:34:32 GMT
No one is acting like this is strictly a Christian church problem. Remember all that anger directed at Penn State a few years ago? At the Boy Scouts? I find a few things interesting: 1. You immediately jump to whataboutery. "Waaaah, why us?!?! What about..." But your (alleged) Lord said, "Pull out the beam from your own eye before you pull out the speck from your own." Before you start pointing fingers at other institutions, shouldn't you follow your Lord's command by cleaning up the churches first? 2. You immediately jump to victimhood. "They're picking on Christians!!!!!" They did something really wrong, and now people are mad. That's usually how it works. 3. The Southern Baptists have been screaming about sexual morality for decades: fornication, the Sexual Revolution, pornography, divorce, employed women, women wearing pants, gays, lesbians, trans people, etc. The Southern Baptists care more about gender & sex than anything else. And it turns out their leadership is full of real perverts. 4. "Gettin' saved" is supposed to change a person. The Southern Baptists preach endlessly on the need for salvation. But all that salvation, all those sinner's prayers, all that transformation by the renewal of the mind, all that indwelling of the Holy Spirit, all that born-againing...nothing changed. Where is God's power? Where is the saving grace of the Gospel? Where is the Holy Spirit? It's just blather. Dude, I literally said anyone involved in these abuses should be put to death. I’m not crying about you picking on Christians. You seem to neglect the fact that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is really a Christian. The Bible plainly warns us to be wary of false teachers and prophets. Becoming a Christian doesn’t suddenly make you immune to sin. My point stands that such abuse exists in just about ever corner of life. Why? Because we are all human, and humans are subject to failing miserably. That’s why we need God in the first place. Did you miss the part of the bible where Jesus says that you should forgive your enemies? Or maybe they printed one specially for you. |
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Post by Monster Man on Jun 9, 2022 18:50:28 GMT
Dude, I literally said anyone involved in these abuses should be put to death. I’m not crying about you picking on Christians. You seem to neglect the fact that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is really a Christian. The Bible plainly warns us to be wary of false teachers and prophets. Becoming a Christian doesn’t suddenly make you immune to sin. My point stands that such abuse exists in just about ever corner of life. Why? Because we are all human, and humans are subject to failing miserably. That’s why we need God in the first place. Did you miss the part of the bible where Jesus says that you should forgive your enemies? Or maybe they printed one specially for you. Forgive doesn't mean an absence of accountability. You are not very good at this whole logic thing. Christians can forgive some guy for breaking into their home, but still support law enforcement arresting them and a justice system locking them up. Now, I think you have a better case to make on not supporting the death penalty, because while they are locked up, we would want them to repent and come to know Jesus. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2022 18:59:49 GMT
Did you miss the part of the bible where Jesus says that you should forgive your enemies? Or maybe they printed one specially for you. Forgive doesn't mean an absence of accountability. You are not very good at this whole logic thing. ... I am better at it than you could ever dream to be, stupid. I have people like you for breakfast when I am not hungry. |
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