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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 17:19:56 GMT
Six years to the day when I started my tilting at windmills crusade to try to stop the left from following the will o the wisps into the swamp of ideological ruin. I knew it was futile at the time. But I did give it a good faith effort for about two years.
At which point, I had to admit even to myself it was futile. The reporting of 2018 was based on the opinions of 2017. After the reporting of 2017 was based on the opinions of 2016. And I realized the useful tools of this machine were the most dangerous force operating in American politics. And still are.
Very, very few people here on the boards seemed to understand what I was saying. No matter the approach I took. (I took this approach I'm taking now multiple times, as well as other approaches. Starting from square one now.)
But here I have the origins of exactly the same phenomenon that happened exactly 6 years ago in March of 2016. When I came into March of 2016 responding to Wadsworth's polling saying I would vote "reluctantly" for Hillary Clinton. "I suppose." I said. Something knocked me off that stance. And to make sense of that "something" ... people who had been allies for 15 years decided I was the enemy. Then I was an anti American Trump slave. And I'm fully aware what I'm about to say now is going to turn me into an anti American Putin puppet.
Opinions about what Putin wants are so pervasive and influential, that they have jumped like wildfire from "opinions of pundits" to facts about what Putin actually said. << Literally the same thing that happened with Trump.
And I'll be honest. I can't help but notice NATO as the common denominator.
I'll share the origin of this talking point eventually I'm sure. But I did learn the hard way just SHOWING people is ineffective. The will o the wisp is strong hoodoo. Who cares about ideological ruin if one achieves sexual gratification when they get to the swamp witch luring them astray? People have to want to resist hypnosis. And like democracy ... it can't be "imposed."
The left is making another of the steps towards Augustus I've been warning about. Happily. Joyfully. Orgasmically.
So anyway. This thread. Let's start this Don Quixote shit parade back up again.
Petep specifically and several other neocons masquerading as leftists have said with a great deal of authority, that Putin has stated he launched his war in Ukraine to effect regime change.
Can anyone show me where he stated that?
Petep? You like to make assertions about predictions and "he said" and then completely ignore requests to back it up. You wanna give it a shot? Can you?
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 11, 2022 17:46:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 18:17:39 GMT
Why are the words "demilitarization" and "denazification" in quotes, and the ousting Zelenskyy's government and replacing it with one friendly to Moscow words are not?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 18:18:42 GMT
What kind of government does Georgia have, and what is the diplomatic status between them and Russia right now?
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 11, 2022 19:17:48 GMT
Why are the words "demilitarization" and "denazification" in quotes, and the ousting Zelenskyy's government and replacing it with one friendly to Moscow words are not?
Why does it matter |
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 11, 2022 19:20:11 GMT
What kind of government does Georgia have, and what is the diplomatic status between them and Russia right now? Same as Ukraine. Russia occupies about 20% of its territory and the PM is trying to make deals with the west. They too want a free and democratic nation. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 19:22:07 GMT
Why are the words "demilitarization" and "denazification" in quotes, and the ousting Zelenskyy's government and replacing it with one friendly to Moscow words are not?
Why does it matter And there it is.
The modern left.
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petep
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Post by petep on Mar 11, 2022 19:33:15 GMT
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 11, 2022 19:43:23 GMT
And there it is.
The modern left.
No explanation as too why it matters? |
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 11, 2022 19:46:57 GMT
WOW! petep, according to Q, you are now a part of the modern left. LOL |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 19:47:43 GMT
wads is posting what putin has said - he seeks to oust the government...he is literally blowing the country to bits...and has surrounded the capital... lets pretend he said he wants nothing but to love and support zelensky...you'd be saying lets ignore putins actions and focus on his words... he told macron he would not invade ukraine...in no uncertain terms... You literally have most every expert in every country repeating what putin has said he is after....and he is doing it... and you are asking me to prove thats what he wants?  are you kidding me... let me guess, when he ousts or kills zelensky and crushes the capital and puts in a puppet govt and it happens to be on a tuesday at 5pm, you will say he didnt say he would do that at tuesday at 5pm... What's this guy's story? Mikheil Saakashvili - President of Georgia 2008-2013
Fun to read his connections to Ukraine, Zelenskyy and what he's doing now too if you've got a minute.
And all of this is more of what Wadsworth shared.
www.cnbc.com/2022/02/23/putin-seeks-regime-change-and-is-likely-to-invade-ukraine-analyst-.htmlRussian President Vladimir Putin is seeking “regime change” and will likely go all the way and invade the rest of Ukraine, according to Jeffrey Edmonds, a former director for Russia at the National Security Council.
“It is a military operation with maximalist war aims, whose [ultimate] aim is regime change,” writes Michael Kofman, director of Russia studies at the CNA think tank.
Sergiy Zhuk, a Ukrainian-born history professor at Ball State University in the U.S. state of Indiana, told RFE/RL on February 23 that Putin’s speech was so aggressive that he expected Russia to invade soon. “He showed to the entire world his Russian imperialistic nationalism,” Zhuk said.
Last one is behind a paywall, but I'm betting is an assertion being made by the author, Jane Kinninmont.
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 11, 2022 19:47:57 GMT
The whole thrust of this thread was the idea that everyone keeps talking about what Putin has said. And that much like with Trump, people often make statements about what was said, without actually quoting what he said.
Eg, the fine people hoax, the rapists and murderers hoax, the drinking bleach hoax, etc.
And amazingly, the responses so far have not included any direct quotes beyond single word quotes removed from their context.
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petep
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Post by petep on Mar 11, 2022 19:50:10 GMT
yes, thats me the modern left...you and me wads, two peas in a pod...
you'd think someone who has observed you and I go at it at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, see us so aligned on this, and offering multiple points of proof, to support our position...
might take a step back and ask himself, hmm, maybe I'm the one driving the wrong way on the freeway and not the hundreds of cars zooming towards me...
and all no matter...the ukranians are doing what they feel they need to do...they are not reading what any of us think they should do...as is their right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 19:54:49 GMT
yes, thats me the modern left...you and me wads, two peas in a pod... you'd think someone who has observed you and I go at it at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, see us so aligned on this, and offering multiple points of proof, to support our position... might take a step back and ask himself, hmm, maybe I'm the one driving the wrong way on the freeway and not the hundreds of cars zooming towards me... and all no matter...the ukranians are doing what they feel they need to do...they are not reading what any of us think they should do...as is their right.
You're missing a key element.
Zelenskyy clearly thought we were going to help him. And he steered his brinksmanship with Russia so recklessly based on that assumption. And the almost universal support on social media and across Western media is probably leading him to believe if he holds out just a little longer ... just a few hundred more dead Ukrainian children ... the West will come in and help him take back Crimea and the Eastern regions.
It should be obvious by now he cannot take them back himself. And yet he is still letting that be the sticking point. As he has already expressed willingness to take the language about NATO out of Ukraine's constitution. His only bones of contention are Crimea and the Eastern states.
You have any thoughts on how Georgia came through this exact situation?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 19:56:31 GMT
yes, thats me the modern left...you and me wads, two peas in a pod... you'd think someone who has observed you and I go at it at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, see us so aligned on this, and offering multiple points of proof, to support our position... might take a step back and ask himself, hmm, maybe I'm the one driving the wrong way on the freeway and not the hundreds of cars zooming towards me...
This is such an insane argument to make to me, of all people. In a thread I started referencing Don Quixote.
Petep, the only thing I've always seen as a similarity between you and Wads is stupidity. You're not persuading me to re evaluate that determination by demonstrating your solidarity on that front so convincingly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 19:58:57 GMT
yes, thats me the modern left...you and me wads, two peas in a pod... you'd think someone who has observed you and I go at it at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, see us so aligned on this, and offering multiple points of proof, to support our position... might take a step back and ask himself, hmm, maybe I'm the one driving the wrong way on the freeway and not the hundreds of cars zooming towards me... and all no matter...the ukranians are doing what they feel they need to do...they are not reading what any of us think they should do...as is their right.
It should be obvious by now he cannot take them back himself. And yet he is still letting that be the sticking point.
Are you like Vypr? Do you need a journalist to explain that for you?
Russia just sent in their greenest troops ... with their worst equipment ... giving them minimal air cover... and is in the process of destroying Ukraine and Ukraine's military.
What are their odds at taking Crimea/Eastern Ukraine on their own, no matter how many bullets we give Zelenskyy?
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petep
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Post by petep on Mar 11, 2022 20:01:09 GMT
I win...I'd bet you'd resort to name calling...OK, now I'm stupid, along with wads...how about a nazi, or drug dealer....
there are those who favor words and those who favor actions...some judge words, some judge actions....
I'd suggest you turn on your TV...plenty of putins actions on full display.
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Post by wyattstorch on Mar 11, 2022 20:04:53 GMT
It should be obvious by now he cannot take them back himself. And yet he is still letting that be the sticking point.
Are you like Vypr? Do you need a journalist to explain that for you?
Russia just sent in their greenest troops ... with their worst equipment ... giving them minimal air cover... and is in the process of destroying Ukraine and Ukraine's military.
What are their odds at taking Crimea/Eastern Ukraine on their own, no matter how many bullets we give Zelenskyy?
It is almost like these actions are so perplexing because they are meant to look like an army taking over territory in an enemy land, but instead of leveling every major city, like they could easily do, they are sticking with random, sometimes symbolic, shelling, firing, amassing, and striking. But oddly, while they have Kyiv surrounded, and again, could easily decimate the city, they haven't.
Looks like negotiating to me.
Maybe someone can explain why they haven't gone into Kyiv.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 20:09:00 GMT
yes, thats me the modern left...you and me wads, two peas in a pod... you'd think someone who has observed you and I go at it at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, see us so aligned on this, and offering multiple points of proof, to support our position... might take a step back and ask himself, hmm, maybe I'm the one driving the wrong way on the freeway and not the hundreds of cars zooming towards me...
Petep, the only thing I've always seen as a similarity between you and Wads is stupidity.
I do feel like an asshole saying these things. What difference, at this point, does it make?
And yet I am sorry petep. I don't actually think you and Wads are stupid. It's just such a habit after all this time when I'm faced with this intransigent unwillingness to see a point that seems so deliberate. Ukraine and what is going on here and how close the left is pushing us to world war 3 has me a lot more active and shirking my responsibilities than I otherwise would be.
But I do find your willingness to accept experts when they agree so nicely with your worldview as disconcerting as I do Wads. That swamp witch must be amazing pussy.
Were all of these experts right about Trump too now in your estimation? Was January 6th an horrific assault on the soul of our nation by right wing white supremacist nazis led by that pied piper Trump to try to seize power and install Trump as dictator for life?
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Post by thecitizen on Mar 11, 2022 20:10:33 GMT
yes, thats me the modern left...you and me wads, two peas in a pod... you'd think someone who has observed you and I go at it at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, see us so aligned on this, and offering multiple points of proof, to support our position... might take a step back and ask himself, hmm, maybe I'm the one driving the wrong way on the freeway and not the hundreds of cars zooming towards me... and all no matter...the ukranians are doing what they feel they need to do...they are not reading what any of us think they should do...as is their right.
You're missing a key element.
Zelenskyy clearly thought we were going to help him. And he steered his brinksmanship with Russia so recklessly based on that assumption. And the almost universal support on social media and across Western media is probably leading him to believe if he holds out just a little longer ... just a few hundred more dead Ukrainian children ... the West will come in and help him take back Crimea and the Eastern regions.
It should be obvious by now he cannot take them back himself. And yet he is still letting that be the sticking point. As he has already expressed willingness to take the language about NATO out of Ukraine's constitution. His only bones of contention are Crimea and the Eastern states.
You have any thoughts on how Georgia came through this exact situation?
All Zelensky did was try to run his country as an elected leader. Sure, you want him to surrender to trump's friend and be under the dictatorship of Putin. I am sure that's what you would do instead of fight for your freedom if he came to invade the U.S. But, if these people prefer to fight (not just Zelensky, but the entire country), then let them. Regardless if they win or lose, Putin has already lost. Let the chips fall where they may. |
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