Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 27, 2021 5:22:18 GMT
Although a different denomination, the interior of this church looks very similar to the church I was baptised in. And that church was founded in the early 1700's. I would not like to see my church suffer the same fate as this one.
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Post by Running Deer on Dec 27, 2021 19:03:07 GMT
Nice summary of Nietzsche right here:
"It was so different. It was just what you did. Unless you were really sick, it was just what you did," [77 year-old Pam] Benson said. "It’s just change, it’s progression. It’s what happens. Not that I like it, but it is what it is."
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 28, 2021 6:20:35 GMT
Nice summary of Nietzsche right here: "It was so different. It was just what you did. Unless you were really sick, it was just what you did," [77 year-old Pam] Benson said. "It’s just change, it’s progression. It’s what happens. Not that I like it, but it is what it is."
I confess, although college educated, I've never read Nietzsche. I studied science and music instead. Anyway, does that really sum up Nietzsche's philosophy? "It is what it is"? If so, I tend to agree. At some point you just have to accept the world as it is, not how you wish it would be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 18:43:29 GMT
Some pearls of wisdom there! I hope you plan to write a book about it.
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 29, 2021 19:26:42 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)?
Lesslie Newbigin says, in Foolishness to the Greeks: The Gospel and Western Culture, "The value of the word contextualization is that it suggests the placing of the gospel in the total context of a culture at a particular moment, a moment that is shaped by the past and looks to the future. The weakness, however, of this whole mass of missiological writing is that while it has sought to explore the problems of contextualization in all the cultures of humankind from China to Peru, it has largely ignored the culture that is the most widespread, powerful, and persuasive among all contemporary cultures—namely, what I have called modern Western culture. Moreover, this neglect is even more serious because it is this culture that, more than almost any other, is proving resistant to the gospel." (italics added)
Unfortunately, Christianity in the west has been reduced to particular (and obsolete) cultural expressions, tied to specific biblical interpretations, wedded to the accumulation of centuries of post-biblical traditions as if they were essential, and perpetuating a form of Christian worship with the essence removed.
As far as the building? A shame, I guess, but it's just a building.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,101
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 30, 2021 0:52:59 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)? Lesslie Newbigin says, in Foolishness to the Greeks: The Gospel and Western Culture, "The value of the word contextualization is that it suggests the placing of the gospel in the total context of a culture at a particular moment, a moment that is shaped by the past and looks to the future. The weakness, however, of this whole mass of missiological writing is that while it has sought to explore the problems of contextualization in all the cultures of humankind from China to Peru, it has largely ignored the culture that is the most widespread, powerful, and persuasive among all contemporary cultures—namely, what I have called modern Western culture. Moreover, this neglect is even more serious because it is this culture that, more than almost any other, is proving resistant to the gospel." (italics added) Unfortunately, Christianity in the west has been reduced to particular (and obsolete) cultural expressions, tied to specific biblical interpretations, wedded to the accumulation of centuries of post-biblical traditions as if they were essential, and perpetuating a form of Christian worship with the essence removed. As far as the building? A shame, I guess, but it's just a building.
I cannot fully agree with that.
Christianity, for the past two millenia, has been focused on both scripture and ritual. Humans require both. It is so with most religions, I think. To dismiss the architectural component is to ignore the great influence it has on peoples' beliefs. Sure, it is not Christ's primary message, but I believe it is quite necessary for people to respect and adhere to his teachings.
YMMV
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 30, 2021 14:33:21 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)? Lesslie Newbigin says, in Foolishness to the Greeks: The Gospel and Western Culture, "The value of the word contextualization is that it suggests the placing of the gospel in the total context of a culture at a particular moment, a moment that is shaped by the past and looks to the future. The weakness, however, of this whole mass of missiological writing is that while it has sought to explore the problems of contextualization in all the cultures of humankind from China to Peru, it has largely ignored the culture that is the most widespread, powerful, and persuasive among all contemporary cultures—namely, what I have called modern Western culture. Moreover, this neglect is even more serious because it is this culture that, more than almost any other, is proving resistant to the gospel." (italics added) Unfortunately, Christianity in the west has been reduced to particular (and obsolete) cultural expressions, tied to specific biblical interpretations, wedded to the accumulation of centuries of post-biblical traditions as if they were essential, and perpetuating a form of Christian worship with the essence removed. As far as the building? A shame, I guess, but it's just a building.
I cannot fully agree with that.
Christianity, for the past two millenia, has been focused on both scripture and ritual. Humans require both. It is so with most religions, I think. To dismiss the architectural component is to ignore the great influence it has on peoples' beliefs. Sure, it is not Christ's primary message, but I believe it is quite necessary for people to respect and adhere to his teachings.
YMMV
The architecture is nice. When done well, it is deeply meaningful. But the clear teaching of scripture is that "God does not dwell in buildings made by humans hands" (although he deigned to grace the Jewish temple with his name and presence). The New Testament is pretty clear that buildings are irrelevant...Jesus himself claims to be the "new temple," and repeatedly Christians are told that they (individually and collectively) are "the temple of the Holy Spirit." So I appreciate the architecture—but when it becomes central and essential, it is actually undermining the message of scripture.
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Post by thecitizen on Dec 31, 2021 0:17:13 GMT
Although a different denomination, the interior of this church looks very similar to the church I was baptised in. And that church was founded in the early 1700's. I would not like to see my church suffer the same fate as this one.
People just don’t go to church like the used to. Beautiful sanctuary. Maybe another denomination will purchase it
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Post by thecitizen on Dec 31, 2021 0:24:52 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)? Lesslie Newbigin says, in Foolishness to the Greeks: The Gospel and Western Culture, "The value of the word contextualization is that it suggests the placing of the gospel in the total context of a culture at a particular moment, a moment that is shaped by the past and looks to the future. The weakness, however, of this whole mass of missiological writing is that while it has sought to explore the problems of contextualization in all the cultures of humankind from China to Peru, it has largely ignored the culture that is the most widespread, powerful, and persuasive among all contemporary cultures—namely, what I have called modern Western culture. Moreover, this neglect is even more serious because it is this culture that, more than almost any other, is proving resistant to the gospel." (italics added) Unfortunately, Christianity in the west has been reduced to particular (and obsolete) cultural expressions, tied to specific biblical interpretations, wedded to the accumulation of centuries of post-biblical traditions as if they were essential, and perpetuating a form of Christian worship with the essence removed. As far as the building? A shame, I guess, but it's just a building. I think the turn off is religion, not Christianity. Religion has become too political. Young people don’t like that. Religion wants to tell you what to do and how to think. Christianity has one goal. Be good. Some people believe that you don’t have to be good or at least try to be good if you are a Christian
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,101
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 31, 2021 1:26:30 GMT
Although a different denomination, the interior of this church looks very similar to the church I was baptised in. And that church was founded in the early 1700's. I would not like to see my church suffer the same fate as this one.
People just don’t go to church like the used to. Beautiful sanctuary. Maybe another denomination will purchase it
Thanks. It's not the one I was raised in, but similar. For me, it's the fellowship and congregation that makes it magic. Kind of like a friendly web site (if such actually exists in this day and age). Come to think of it, as people start to burn out on social media nonsense, perhaps churches will see a surge.
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 31, 2021 3:16:32 GMT
Although a different denomination, the interior of this church looks very similar to the church I was baptised in. And that church was founded in the early 1700's. I would not like to see my church suffer the same fate as this one.
People just don’t go to church like the used to. Beautiful sanctuary. Maybe another denomination will purchase it That kind of thing happens regularly. In my neighbourhood, a Dutch Reformed church closed its doors a couple of years ago. Its building was pretty new and beautiful, and rumour has it the building was sold for $1 to a church plant of another denomination.
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 31, 2021 3:18:13 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)? Lesslie Newbigin says, in Foolishness to the Greeks: The Gospel and Western Culture, "The value of the word contextualization is that it suggests the placing of the gospel in the total context of a culture at a particular moment, a moment that is shaped by the past and looks to the future. The weakness, however, of this whole mass of missiological writing is that while it has sought to explore the problems of contextualization in all the cultures of humankind from China to Peru, it has largely ignored the culture that is the most widespread, powerful, and persuasive among all contemporary cultures—namely, what I have called modern Western culture. Moreover, this neglect is even more serious because it is this culture that, more than almost any other, is proving resistant to the gospel." (italics added) Unfortunately, Christianity in the west has been reduced to particular (and obsolete) cultural expressions, tied to specific biblical interpretations, wedded to the accumulation of centuries of post-biblical traditions as if they were essential, and perpetuating a form of Christian worship with the essence removed. As far as the building? A shame, I guess, but it's just a building. I think the turn off is religion, not Christianity. Religion has become too political. Young people don’t like that. Religion wants to tell you what to do and how to think. I agree. Not quite...the "goal" of Christianity is to anticipate God's rule under the Lordship of Christ. Part of the stipulations of that is that you cannot "be good" based on your own effort (or at least, "not good enough"). Some Christians seem to interpret that to mean that it doesn't matter how you behave.
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Post by thecitizen on Dec 31, 2021 4:05:48 GMT
People just don’t go to church like the used to. Beautiful sanctuary. Maybe another denomination will purchase it
Thanks. It's not the one I was raised in, but similar. For me, it's the fellowship and congregation that makes it magic. Kind of like a friendly web site (if such actually exists in this day and age). Come to think of it, as people start to burn out on social media nonsense, perhaps churches will see a surge.
The church I go to attendance is extremely low since Covid. It was decreasing prior to the pandemic. But the service is streamed on Facebook every Sunday and members contribute on line. Most Sundays I watch online. I guess I got used to it since they were closed for six months. Most of the kids who grew up in the church stopped going even before the shutdown. Including by own. Some went to more progressive, non traditional churches or just stop going to church all together. Guess it is the sign of the times
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Post by thecitizen on Dec 31, 2021 4:09:11 GMT
People just don’t go to church like the used to. Beautiful sanctuary. Maybe another denomination will purchase it That kind of thing happens regularly. In my neighbourhood, a Dutch Reformed church closed its doors a couple of years ago. Its building was pretty new and beautiful, and rumour has it the building was sold for $1 to a church plant of another denomination. Yeah, that happens a lot in my area as well
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Post by thecitizen on Dec 31, 2021 4:13:58 GMT
I think the turn off is religion, not Christianity. Religion has become too political. Young people don’t like that. Religion wants to tell you what to do and how to think. I agree. Not quite...the "goal" of Christianity is to anticipate God's rule under the Lordship of Christ. Part of the stipulations of that is that you cannot "be good" based on your own effort (or at least, "not good enough"). Some Christians seem to interpret that to mean that it doesn't matter how you behave. And that is the problem. People want man’s interpretation of good and evil and forgiveness. God knows we are not perfect people, but we must strive to be so. The New Testament is a guide. People need to read it for themselves and stop relying on man to interpret it for them.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 31, 2021 6:48:24 GMT
Well, I stopped attending church regularly when I was in High School. Something about my mother feeling slighted by a church biddy. I have attended services only sporadically since then, such as for weddings, concerts, and such. But I still have fond memories of the old church of my childhood.
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Post by Running Deer on Dec 31, 2021 18:32:12 GMT
Nice summary of Nietzsche right here: "It was so different. It was just what you did. Unless you were really sick, it was just what you did," [77 year-old Pam] Benson said. "It’s just change, it’s progression. It’s what happens. Not that I like it, but it is what it is." I confess, although college educated, I've never read Nietzsche. I studied science and music instead. Anyway, does that really sum up Nietzsche's philosophy? "It is what it is"? If so, I tend to agree. At some point you just have to accept the world as it is, not how you wish it would be. I was joking a bit. The part where the old lady says that church "was just what you did" does echo Nietzsche's discussion of the Death of God. Nietzsche pointed out that Europeans had stopped taking Christianity as a serious argument for why anyone should do anything. Too many people think he was celebrating the Death of God. But Nietzsche laments it through his character Zarathustra.
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Post by Running Deer on Dec 31, 2021 18:50:20 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)? Investigation destroys revelation. Well of course it is. We've been stuck with it for thousands of years.
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 31, 2021 21:58:16 GMT
This kind of thing is almost inevitable as long as buildings and traditions take the place of a vital Christianity. There are many, many churches across North America that are on life-support even if they don't realize it. Where are the children? Where are the young adults (who leave when questions are dismissed instead of engaged)? Investigation destroys revelation. I would argue that this is not the case. I could appeal to Kierkegaard, but I think it's more important to determine the criteria of the investigation. If someone attempts to "squeeze God (or revelation) into a box determined by empirical measurement," then of course when you open that box, you'll find nothing in there.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 22:19:44 GMT
Investigation destroys revelation. I would argue that this is not the case. I could appeal to Kierkegaard, but I think it's more important to determine the criteria of the investigation. If someone attempts to "squeeze God (or revelation) into a box determined by empirical measurement," then of course when you open that box, you'll find nothing in there. You know, when you stop to think about it, a book is kind of a box.
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