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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 22, 2020 12:33:52 GMT
That's what he says anyway...
Donald J. Trump
@realdonaldtrump
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RIGGED 2020 ELECTION: MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND OTHERS. IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!
OK....
Greg
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Post by william on Jun 22, 2020 13:09:22 GMT
That's what he says anyway...
Donald J. Trump
@realdonaldtrump
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1h
RIGGED 2020 ELECTION: MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND OTHERS. IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!
OK....
Greg
Does this mean that he will be re-elected with russian and chinese mail-in ballots? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 17:00:09 GMT
This is telling...and scary. Is there anything he won't do for a win?
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Post by Greg55_99 on Jun 23, 2020 10:41:50 GMT
I'm expecting soon an executive order from Trump forbidding mail in voting.
The backstory here is obvious. Trump and company know he's toast.
Greg
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 23, 2020 13:04:51 GMT
Trump says 2020 election is already rigged
OK....
Greg
Well he should know .. Republicans have been working overtime 'rigging' it..
Know this.. . Trump can't win with just his hard core base of nitwits alone.. Republicans are as we speak are weaponizing voter suppression, organizing massive disinformation campaigns, and encouraging foreign interference.. much of which Trump has personally requested from foreign governments.
Trump will do anything to win .. Anything ..
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 14:33:05 GMT
That's what he says anyway...
Donald J. Trump
@realdonaldtrump
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1h
RIGGED 2020 ELECTION: MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND OTHERS. IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!
It's a ridiculous claim, but he can get away with it, because don't understand how mail-in voting works. For example, each ballot and return envelope has a specific bar code that is scanned. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 14:43:20 GMT
The problem is there's so much "anecdotal" evidence for his complaints. Like finding trunkloads of uncounted ballots in basements of courthouses. I mean, just duck duck go "uncounted ballots found" and start reading. Democrats always find them in areas where Republicans win elections, and Republicans find em in areas where Democrats win elections. Colorado, Florida, Wisconsin ... According to this article from RealClearPolitics, between 2012 and 2018, 28.3 million mail in ballots remain unaccounted for. That's 20% of the mail in ballots sent out. www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/24/28_million_mail-in_ballots_went_missing_in_last_four_elections_143033.htmlPretending there aren't gremlins in the system only helps Trump promote this narrative. Queshank |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 14:50:42 GMT
There are gremlins, but this article seems a little hyperbolic; the ballots didn't really "go missing." They just weren't returned. They were mailed out and weren't returned as undeliverable, etc., so, they got where they were going (we know where they went, hence not really missing). The people at that address just didn't use them for whatever reason. Maybe they ended up voting in person (that happens), or they just didn't vote (set it on the counter and forgot about it). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 14:53:19 GMT
There are gremlins, but this article seems a little hyperbolic; the ballots didn't really "go missing." They just weren't returned. They were mailed out and weren't returned as undeliverable, etc., so, they got where they were going (we know where they went, hence not really missing). The people at that address just didn't use them for whatever reason. Maybe they ended up voting in person (that happens), or they just didn't vote (set it on the counter and forgot about it).
Or were they returned and are in the basement of a courthouse somewhere? Just waiting to be found like all those ballots were found in Florida, and Wisconsin and Colorado ...
Maybe. Possibly. Could be. "We don't know."
Sounds like you and Trump are on equal footing. So what's the complaint about Trump's assertion?
Queshank |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 15:08:47 GMT
So what's the complaint about Trump's assertion?
Queshank That foreign countries and "others" (whoever that is) are going to forge mail-in ballots. If you want to claim you could see an increase in mail-in ballot fraud, I can buy that, especially in states that are going to try and implement universal mail-in ballots in a matter of months. Because they will have little time to implement safe guards and create the infrastructure to handle universal mail-in (e.g., there would be a lot of counties in Texas that do not have enough machines to run the ballots), whereas states like Oregon have been doing this for a couple of decades now. But throwing out wild assertions about foreign nations forging ballots is pretty ridiculous. The amount of time involved in that would not be worth the effort when you have easier ways to undermine election integrity. Plus, we've used mail-in ballots for a long, long time now, and I don't know of any case where ballot forgery was attempted (and a quick Google search didn't reveal anything either). Mail-in fraud typically involves ballot harvesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 15:35:21 GMT
So what's the complaint about Trump's assertion?
Queshank That foreign countries and "others" (whoever that is) are going to forge mail-in ballots. If you want to claim you could see an increase in mail-in ballot fraud, I can buy that, especially in states that are going to try and implement universal mail-in ballots in a matter of months. Because they will have little time to implement safe guards and create the infrastructure to handle universal mail-in (e.g., there would be a lot of counties in Texas that do not have enough machines to run the ballots), whereas states like Oregon have been doing this for a couple of decades now. But throwing out wild assertions about foreign nations forging ballots is pretty ridiculous. The amount of time involved in that would not be worth the effort when you have easier ways to undermine election integrity. Plus, we've used mail-in ballots for a long, long time now, and I don't know of any case where ballot forgery was attempted (and a quick Google search didn't reveal anything either). Mail-in fraud typically involves ballot harvesting. Ah. So being pedantic is the problem 
Sure but nobody really pays attention to any of that.
The only connection being made is "mail in ballots ... sketchy."
Who said anything about "ballot forgery?" There are skads of articles about uncounted ballots being found. Whether intentionally uncounted or accidentally is anyone's guess. What does that have to do with ballot harvesting or "ballot forgery?" You're trying to pivot so your argument is on firmer ground.
If there's a chance your vote isn't being counted if you mail in your ballot, shouldn't it bother you?
Queshank
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 15:43:17 GMT
And yes, I know you're talking about the exact verbiage of Trump's tweet. Pedantic. You're not addressing what I've said. Where I pointed to "the problem" with mail in balloting and why this works for Trump. Queshank |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 15:48:04 GMT
Who said anything about "ballot forgery?"
Queshank
Who said anything about ballot forgery? The President of the United States. That's what the thread is about; his claim, which I am sure he will be making again (just like his constant "LAW & ORDER" tweets; I love that show too, but I don't tweet about it incessantly). The guy has a very big microphone and he's putting out complete BS like this. This goes beyond "mail-in ballots are sketchy," and makes a specific claim about foreign governments trying to alter the election through forged mail-in ballots. I've already addressed why this "works" for Trump: because people don't actually understand the mail-in ballot process. And Republicans have been scaremongering about voter fraud for years, instead of addressing the issue in a rational way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 15:48:59 GMT
Who said anything about "ballot forgery?"
Queshank
Who said anything about ballot forgery? The President of the United States. That's what the thread is about; his claim, which I am sure he will be making again (just like his constant "LAW & ORDER" tweets; I love that show too, but I don't tweet about it incessantly). The guy has a very big microphone and he's putting out complete BS like this. This goes beyond "mail-in ballots are sketchy," and makes a specific claim about foreign governments trying to alter the election through forged mail-in ballots.
On Twitter.
Got it.
Queshank
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 15:49:34 GMT
But you're responding to me and the point I made Demos. So I'll continue to talk about what I'm talking about. You do you.
Queshank
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 15:52:02 GMT
Here. I'll repeat my point:
Trump gets mileage out of this because his opponents continually ignore the problems that *do* exist with mail in ballots.
Trump's voters aren't on twitter. I don't personally know a single person with a twitter presence. But I do know twitter's population isn't made up of 60 year old farmers and farmers' wives.
Queshank
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 15:53:38 GMT
On Twitter.
Got it.
Queshank
So, his social media doesn't matter? Does he need to say it in a campaign speech, or in response to a question? And this tweet isn't pedantic any sense (it doesn't demonstrate narrow learning nor is it dull). |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 15:55:00 GMT
Trump's voters aren't on twitter. Queshank They are on Twitter. Quite a number of them; pretty sure the over 240k who have liked that tweet include mostly supporters. You anecdotally not knowing any Trump voter on Twitter doesn't make it not so. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 16:12:18 GMT
On Twitter.
Got it.
Queshank
So, his social media doesn't matter? Does he need to say it in a campaign speech, or in response to a question? And this tweet isn't pedantic any sense (it doesn't demonstrate narrow learning nor is it dull).
The tweet isn't pedantic. Your approach to the conversation is... You're focusing on trees and ignoring the forest like mainstream journalists do.
I have consistently pointed out for the past 5 years that Trump's tweets are like viruses uploaded for the consumption of journalists ... who are *all* on twitter, Trump supporter or no. And promulgated far and wide by said journalists. And you, along with journalists, are taking the bait. As they always do.
Trump's delivery mechanism is the left wing news outlets that will double down on supporting mail in balloting and deliberately avoid any focus on the negative sides of mail in ballots. Leaving them open to quotes and stances that will be used by right wing media from now until the election.
240k people like that tweet you say? My stars and garters. That's a lot of likes. Twitter is global. How many of those likes were American? How many were bots?
And what percentage of 63 million is "240K" if that indeed, after your research, turns out to be 240k likes from individual American citizens as opposed to multiple "likes" from people with multiple twitter accounts?
Queshank
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 23, 2020 16:44:03 GMT
The tweet isn't pedantic. Your approach to the conversation is... You're focusing on trees and ignoring the forest like mainstream journalists do. I've already said (twice now) that I understand how this benefits Trump and I understand the politics of it. What bothers me is how potentially damaging this stuff is, particularly if he loses in November, but even if he doesn't (I'm not following the polling; it's gonna suck regardless who wins). You had people burning ballot application letters over stuff like this, so what he says - even on Twitter - has real world consequences. We've been undermining our own election integrity over partisan politics for quite a while now by hyper-inflating voter fraud concerns (yes, it occurs but usually doesn't impact an election), foreign interference (yes it occurred, but had a very limited impact), etc. Now, we're turning that up to 11. We're creating a political culture where, at some point, the losing side isn't going to accept the result (regardless of a recount or election contest). This is bigger than who wins the 2020 election; it's bigger than Trump. It's a long-term, on-going problem with our politics, which are - frankly - spiraling downward. |
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