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Post by VYPR on Jun 11, 2021 10:46:00 GMT
That's so true. Hypocrisy doesn't begin to capture it. Does CRT seek to tear down institutions and norms? Many of its early and most prominent adherents certainly seemed to think so. So do many modern adherents. Is this one of those cases where it's not dangerous to do so while for other cases it's extraordinarily dangerous and could turn the USA into Nazi or (best case) Venezuelan type society? The "other cases" being undermining and trying to overturn a legitimate election and undermining confidence in the electoral process both before and after the election? Not quite apples to apples there. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 11, 2021 11:06:21 GMT
CRTs end game is socialism and ending capitalism which it views as an outcome of racism. It teaches everything about America from capitalism to the nuclear family is all based on white western racist ideals.
For me, There is no middle ground. There will be no compromise. I fundamentally disagree with 100 percent of its teachings as the goals are reprehensible.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 11, 2021 11:07:25 GMT
Does CRT seek to tear down institutions and norms? Many of its early and most prominent adherents certainly seemed to think so. So do many modern adherents. Is this one of those cases where it's not dangerous to do so while for other cases it's extraordinarily dangerous and could turn the USA into Nazi or (best case) Venezuelan type society? The "other cases" being undermining and trying to overturn a legitimate election and undermining confidence in the electoral process both before and after the election? Not quite apples to apples there. Was this election quite different from previous elections in how it was executed? That might have reasonably raised levels of suspicion. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 11, 2021 11:14:53 GMT
It was radically different. Beyond radically different. And tbe excuse at the last minute was it was due to covid. Now they do not want to return to the standard and they can’t explain why.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,101
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 11, 2021 15:40:19 GMT
What's the big fuss about Cathode Ray Tubes?
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 1:50:30 GMT
The "other cases" being undermining and trying to overturn a legitimate election and undermining confidence in the electoral process both before and after the election? Not quite apples to apples there. Was this election quite different from previous elections in how it was executed? That might have reasonably raised levels of suspicion. NO. They are saying the election WAS stolen. They are saying it WAS the greatest fraud in history. They aren't saying "hey, there were election changes in some states" or "now we don't like mail-in voting where before we didn't care". They are claiming fraud and working continuously to delegitimize. They were doing this BEFORE and AFTER the election. Your comparison is false and disingenuous. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 8:48:10 GMT
Was this election quite different from previous elections in how it was executed? That might have reasonably raised levels of suspicion. NO. They are saying the election WAS stolen. They are saying it WAS the greatest fraud in history. They aren't saying "hey, there were election changes in some states" or "now we don't like mail-in voting where before we didn't care". They are claiming fraud and working continuously to delegitimize. They were doing this BEFORE and AFTER the election. Your comparison is false and disingenuous. . It’s not really a comparison though, is it? I’m pointing out when a democratic process is radically changed, it’s not crazy to expect a minority of people to suspect fraud, whether the fraud exists or not. |
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 9:04:46 GMT
NO. They are saying the election WAS stolen. They are saying it WAS the greatest fraud in history. They aren't saying "hey, there were election changes in some states" or "now we don't like mail-in voting where before we didn't care". They are claiming fraud and working continuously to delegitimize. They were doing this BEFORE and AFTER the election. Your comparison is false and disingenuous. . It’s not really a comparison though, is it? I’m pointing out when a democratic process is radically changed, it’s not crazy to expect a minority of people to suspect fraud, whether the fraud exists or not. The democratic process wasn't "radically changed". We had large scale mail-in voting in multiple states already. Further, there has been ZERO evidence of any fraud or bad actions beyond the typical low-level churn in any election. Nothing. All these "radical changes" created no cases of large scale fraud. Recount after recount, audit after audit and nothing found. And yet the opposition says the election was fraudulent and refuses to accept the results. They were saying that BEFORE the election. They sought to undermine confidence in the election leading up to the vote and they continue to seek to undermine confidence in the result and the US electoral system. All you're doing is spouting nonsense about "radical changes" while refusing to acknowledge the losing party has embraced the evidence-free propaganda and lies of their leadership, namely that Biden is purely illegitimate and the election was stolen. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 9:17:58 GMT
It’s not really a comparison though, is it? I’m pointing out when a democratic process is radically changed, it’s not crazy to expect a minority of people to suspect fraud, whether the fraud exists or not. The democratic process wasn't "radically changed". We had large scale mail-in voting in multiple states already. Further, there has been ZERO evidence of any fraud or bad actions beyond the typical low-level churn in any election. Nothing. All these "radical changes" created no cases of large scale fraud. Recount after recount, audit after audit and nothing found. And yet the opposition says the election was fraudulent and refuses to accept the results. They were saying that BEFORE the election. They sought to undermine confidence in the election leading up to the vote and they continue to seek to undermine confidence in the result and the US electoral system. All you're doing is spouting nonsense about "radical changes" while refusing to acknowledge the losing party has embraced the evidence-free propaganda and lies of their leadership, namely that Biden is purely illegitimate and the election was stolen. . The difference was “massive”. And I specifically said that due to these “massive” changes, there would be people on the losing side who expected fraud regardless of whether the fraud existed or not. So all of the rest of your post doesn’t matter to me, regardless of whether or not you CAPITALIZE CERTAIN WORDS for impact. |
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 9:44:12 GMT
The democratic process wasn't "radically changed". We had large scale mail-in voting in multiple states already. Further, there has been ZERO evidence of any fraud or bad actions beyond the typical low-level churn in any election. Nothing. All these "radical changes" created no cases of large scale fraud. Recount after recount, audit after audit and nothing found. And yet the opposition says the election was fraudulent and refuses to accept the results. They were saying that BEFORE the election. They sought to undermine confidence in the election leading up to the vote and they continue to seek to undermine confidence in the result and the US electoral system. All you're doing is spouting nonsense about "radical changes" while refusing to acknowledge the losing party has embraced the evidence-free propaganda and lies of their leadership, namely that Biden is purely illegitimate and the election was stolen. . The difference was “massive”. And I specifically said that due to these “massive” changes, there would be people on the losing side who expected fraud regardless of whether the fraud existed or not. So all of the rest of your post doesn’t matter to me, regardless of whether or not you CAPITALIZE CERTAIN WORDS for impact. Nonsense. Mail-in voting has been well established in the United States for decades. Some states were almost purely mail-in before this election already. Further, and most critically, the election was being delegitimized before the vote even occurred. There was no fraud, the election was not stolen, and still the losers claim it was. The losers want to undermine confidence in the democratic process in this country. They wanted to do so before the election and they continue to do so now. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 9:47:36 GMT
Nonsense. Mail-in voting has been well established in the United States for decades. Some states were almost purely mail-in before this election already. Further, and most critically, the election was being delegitimized before the vote even occurred. There was no fraud, the election was not stolen, and still the losers claim it was. The losers want to undermine confidence in the democratic process in this country. They wanted to do so before the election and they continue to do so now. . Just say “data doesn’t matter to me.” And then we can both go our separate ways. |
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 10:07:02 GMT
Nonsense. Mail-in voting has been well established in the United States for decades. Some states were almost purely mail-in before this election already. Further, and most critically, the election was being delegitimized before the vote even occurred. There was no fraud, the election was not stolen, and still the losers claim it was. The losers want to undermine confidence in the democratic process in this country. They wanted to do so before the election and they continue to do so now. . Just say “data doesn’t matter to me.” And then we can both go our separate ways. You're the one that tried to establish some kind of equivalence between CRT and the active delegitimization of the election and the US democratic system by Trump and the Trump supporters, which appears to be a majority of the GOP at this point. Don't make stupid comparisons if you can't back up your bullshit. Your apologizing for and apparent sympathy towards this group is embarrassing. There is no excuse for what has been done and is on-going by the Trump GOP and their falling out with democracy. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 10:17:31 GMT
Just say “data doesn’t matter to me.” And then we can both go our separate ways. You're the one that tried to establish some kind of equivalence between CRT and the active delegitimization of the election and the US democratic system by Trump and the Trump supporters, which appears to be a majority of the GOP at this point. Don't make stupid comparisons if you can't back up your bullshit. Your apologizing for and apparent sympathy towards this group is embarrassing. There is no excuse for what has been done and is on-going by the Trump GOP and their falling out with democracy. . Do you feel better now after this childish screeching? Hope so. Enjoy that satisfaction. |
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 10:38:39 GMT
You're the one that tried to establish some kind of equivalence between CRT and the active delegitimization of the election and the US democratic system by Trump and the Trump supporters, which appears to be a majority of the GOP at this point. Don't make stupid comparisons if you can't back up your bullshit. Your apologizing for and apparent sympathy towards this group is embarrassing. There is no excuse for what has been done and is on-going by the Trump GOP and their falling out with democracy. . Do you feel better now after this childish screeching? Hope so. Enjoy that satisfaction. I acknowledge you are conceding. I get no satisfaction out of watching you make a fool out of yourself carrying water for a group that would overturn a lawful and fraud-free election while planting the seeds for undermining our democracy. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 10:41:17 GMT
Do you feel better now after this childish screeching? Hope so. Enjoy that satisfaction. I acknowledge you are conceding. I get no satisfaction out of watching you make a fool out of yourself carrying water for a group that would overturn a lawful and fraud-free election while planting the seeds for undermining our democracy. . Point out my “equivalence” and my “comparison” and my “apologizing”. Otherwise, just keep screeching and throwing a tantrum with CAPITALIZED WORDS. |
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 10:54:43 GMT
I acknowledge you are conceding. I get no satisfaction out of watching you make a fool out of yourself carrying water for a group that would overturn a lawful and fraud-free election while planting the seeds for undermining our democracy. . Point out my “equivalence” and my “comparison” and my “apologizing”. Otherwise, just keep screeching and throwing a tantrum with CAPITALIZED WORDS. There is no comparison between "CRT" and overturning a free and fair election in the US. If you are walking back your comparison, then fine. Acting like the effort by the Trump GOP (both before and after the election) in claiming the election was a rigged fraud and should be overturned, while simultaneously and actively working to undermine faith in the US democratic system is all some kind of natural outcoming of more people using mail-in voting is playing apology and makes you look purely sympathetic. Your going on about "screeching and throwing a tantrum" just shows you are unable to defend your position. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 11:02:48 GMT
Point out my “equivalence” and my “comparison” and my “apologizing”. Otherwise, just keep screeching and throwing a tantrum with CAPITALIZED WORDS. There is no comparison between "CRT" and overturning a free and fair election in the US. If you are walking back your comparison, then fine. Acting like the effort by the Trump GOP (both before and after the election) in claiming the election was a rigged fraud and should be overturned, while simultaneously and actively working to undermine faith in the US democratic system is all some kind of natural outcoming of more people using mail-in voting is playing apology and makes you look purely sympathetic. Your going on about "screeching and throwing a tantrum" just shows you are unable to defend your position. . I didn’t make that comparison. You’re welcome to show me proof otherwise. Recognizing that massive changes to the way the election was executed was inevitably going to lead to people claiming fraud is not apologizing. Your hyperventilating isn’t an argument. |
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Post by VYPR on Jun 13, 2021 11:19:27 GMT
There is no comparison between "CRT" and overturning a free and fair election in the US. If you are walking back your comparison, then fine. Acting like the effort by the Trump GOP (both before and after the election) in claiming the election was a rigged fraud and should be overturned, while simultaneously and actively working to undermine faith in the US democratic system is all some kind of natural outcoming of more people using mail-in voting is playing apology and makes you look purely sympathetic. Your going on about "screeching and throwing a tantrum" just shows you are unable to defend your position. . I didn’t make that comparison. You’re welcome to show me proof otherwise. Recognizing that massive changes to the way the election was executed was inevitably going to lead to people claiming fraud is not apologizing. Your hyperventilating isn’t an argument. I already responded to your post claiming comparison. There were not "massive changes to the way the election was executed", and even if you keep jumping up and down about it it won't make it so. The major difference was people used mail-in voting rather than in-person in many cases. And.....there was no fraud. Full stop. The effort to delegitimize the US democratic process began well before the election. It continues now. . |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Jun 13, 2021 11:49:04 GMT
I didn’t make that comparison. You’re welcome to show me proof otherwise. Recognizing that massive changes to the way the election was executed was inevitably going to lead to people claiming fraud is not apologizing. Your hyperventilating isn’t an argument. I already responded to your post claiming comparison. There were not "massive changes to the way the election was executed", and even if you keep jumping up and down about it it won't make it so. The major difference was people used mail-in voting rather than in-person in many cases. And.....there was no fraud. Full stop. The effort to delegitimize the US democratic process began well before the election. It continues now. . The numbers of people who voted mail-in and in advance makes it a very different election in terms of execution. “There was no fraud” is demonstrably untrue. You’re just wrong. There was fraud from both Republicans and Democrats as there always is. “Full stop”. Side question: Do you believe the allegations that the Trump administration colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election was an attempt to undermine the democratic processes of America? Or totally different? |
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 13, 2021 14:33:42 GMT
Recognizing that massive changes to the way the election was executed was inevitably going to lead to people claiming fraud is not apologizing. Yes and these people suspecting malfeasance rightfully took advantage of every avenue available to them to bring evidence of fraud to light.. Through challenges and recounts they found nothing that would change the outcome.. Does it seem to you that data doesn't matter to these people.. Do you believe the allegations that the Trump administration colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election was an attempt to undermine the democratic processes of America? Or totally different? Easy.. Totally different. There is evidence of collusion .. There isn't evidence of sufficient discrepancies that would impact the election. Data. Remember? The Muller Report found “ numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.”. The report goes on to say that a “ statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.” In fact, Mueller also wrote that the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.” Oops.. More DATA .. wonder if it matters to anyone. That doesn't take into account Trump campaign members Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner met with Russian nationals in Trump Tower in New York June 2016 for the purpose of receiving disparaging information about Clinton as part of “Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” according to an email message arranging the meeting. FUCK.. That's MORE data.. Does it matter yet? |
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