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Post by FEZZILLA on Apr 30, 2021 23:11:13 GMT
Illiterate people do write books. An illiterate person is someone who does little to no reading. Writing books is just another way of shooting your mouth off without doing the research required. Atheists are extremely illiterate because they neither read nor understand the Bible but talk of themselves as if they know more than Bishops, priests, Pastors, martyrs, monks and people who have dedicated their lives to understand and teaching Scripture. Atheists do none of these things. They don't even read the Bible to actually understand what Scripture teaches. They read only to poke holes in verses and passages they do not understand. Simply stated, atheism is a cult because it has no real belief system of its own but places all its focus on hating what they don't understand, which, by definition, is bigotry.
Plenty of atheists are ex-Christians and know the Scriptures very well. Me, for instance. Understanding and agreement are not the same.
I have yet to meet those type. I nail these atheists on misinterpretation after misinterpretation on a regular basis. The atheist is an atheist because they are blind and blind people cannot read or see the light. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 30, 2021 23:27:15 GMT
Sure. But it's not a "desire to be affirmed by humans" for its own sake, or for his own sake. It's not like he has low self-esteem.
The Scriptures say that the church is the "fullness of him who fills all in all". I'd say God gets something out of the worship.
Can you elaborate? The second does not obviously follow from the first. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 30, 2021 23:28:25 GMT
Plenty of atheists are ex-Christians and know the Scriptures very well. Me, for instance. Understanding and agreement are not the same.
I have yet to meet those type. I nail these atheists on misinterpretation after misinterpretation on a regular basis. The atheist is an atheist because they are blind and blind people cannot read or see the light. You have met one. Running Deer is extremely well-read and informed biblically, more so than many Christians. I appreciate that. I also appreciate that he doesn't make straw man arguments and he doesn't intentionally misrepresent Christian ideas. |
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Post by Running Deer on May 1, 2021 0:00:10 GMT
The Scriptures say that the church is the "fullness of him who fills all in all". I'd say God gets something out of the worship.
Can you elaborate? The second does not obviously follow from the first.
I'll quote the passage first, then explain what I think is going on:
"God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. And he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all." Ephesians 1:20-23 NRSV. (uh...sorry Tyndale...)
This passage is difficult to interpret, partially because God and Christ are both referred to be "he" and "him", and it's not clear by the end exactly which "he" is meant. Also, St. Paul* doesn't explain the "fullness" here much further.
The Greek is a little help: to pleroma tou ta panta en pasin pleroumenou. Pleroma refers to a ship full of its cargo and crew. To me, that suggests that as God is the cargo and crew for everything, the church is the cargo and crew for God. The ship isn't really complete with its cargo and crew, and God is not complete without the church.
I think that the Bible presents God as desiring, perhaps even needing, human worship. It completes him. It fills his cargohold. I think that is the real theological innovation of Christianity: God made the universe not by accident, or unconsciously, or to display his glory, or to play with his toys. He made it because he needs people.
* setting aside the authorship concerns here
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Post by Mercy for All on May 1, 2021 0:15:48 GMT
Can you elaborate? The second does not obviously follow from the first.
I'll quote the passage first, then explain what I think is going on:
"God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. And he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all." Ephesians 1:20-23 NRSV. (uh...sorry Tyndale...)
This passage is difficult to interpret, partially because God and Christ are both referred to be "he" and "him", and it's not clear by the end exactly which "he" is meant. Also, St. Paul* doesn't explain the "fullness" here much further.
The Greek is a little help: to pleroma tou ta panta en pasin pleroumenou. Pleroma refers to a ship full of its cargo and crew. To me, that suggests that as God is the cargo and crew for everything, the church is the cargo and crew for God. The ship isn't really complete with its cargo and crew, and God is not complete without the church.
I think that the Bible presents God as desiring, perhaps even needing, human worship. It completes him. It fills his cargohold. I think that is the real theological innovation of Christianity: God made the universe not by accident, or unconsciously, or to display his glory, or to play with his toys. He made it because he needs people.
* setting aside the authorship concerns here
Interesting. (And yes, I smirked, well done). Here is what I would do with that. God is love. The natural action of love is to create so that love increases. So God creates, not out of need, but out of love. The fulfillment of that love is oneness of relationship with humans, his "love target." So it's not that he "needs worship to complete him," but that the worship of him by humans is the expression of that fulfillment. I would take issue with the phrase: "to display his glory." That smacks of a pretty strict Calvinist position that can't help but redefine "love." The whole "free will vs. predestination" argument really hinges on God's primary concern and character: is it his sovereignty/glory? Or is it love? Someone with a strong predestination position would insist on God's glory as his primary concern and his sovereignty as his primary characteristic. On the other side of the coin is the argument that love is his primary characteristic and relationship with humanity is his primary concern. It also might be helpful to clarify what is meant by "worship"...? |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 17:09:50 GMT
I'll quote the passage first, then explain what I think is going on:
"God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. And he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all." Ephesians 1:20-23 NRSV. (uh...sorry Tyndale...)
This passage is difficult to interpret, partially because God and Christ are both referred to be "he" and "him", and it's not clear by the end exactly which "he" is meant. Also, St. Paul* doesn't explain the "fullness" here much further.
The Greek is a little help: to pleroma tou ta panta en pasin pleroumenou. Pleroma refers to a ship full of its cargo and crew. To me, that suggests that as God is the cargo and crew for everything, the church is the cargo and crew for God. The ship isn't really complete with its cargo and crew, and God is not complete without the church.
I think that the Bible presents God as desiring, perhaps even needing, human worship. It completes him. It fills his cargohold. I think that is the real theological innovation of Christianity: God made the universe not by accident, or unconsciously, or to display his glory, or to play with his toys. He made it because he needs people.
* setting aside the authorship concerns here
Interesting. (And yes, I smirked, well done). Here is what I would do with that. God is love. The natural action of love is to create so that love increases. So God creates, not out of need, but out of love.... Yeah, but then he sentences some (if not all) of his "creations" to perpetual torture. That's the love of a psychopath! I can't believe that anyone with a functioning brain could buy into this sicko bullshit!! Take your "love" and shove it up your ass, imbecile!!! That's where it came from if not from your ass then from someone else's. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 20:51:40 GMT
Torturing them forever is the worst thing you could do to a person, arguably it's even beyond the worst thing you could do, since "the afterlife" is unproven made-up crap. To be told that the being that would do that to you, loves you, is sickening!!! And to see someone otherwise not completely stupid repeat that again and again, is infuriating!!!
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Post by oldtrapper on May 1, 2021 23:52:56 GMT
Plenty of atheists are ex-Christians and know the Scriptures very well. Me, for instance. Understanding and agreement are not the same.
I have yet to meet those type. I nail these atheists on misinterpretation after misinterpretation on a regular basis. The atheist is an atheist because they are blind and blind people cannot read or see the light. Then what is your excuse when you deny the one true God, and defend your lying, adulterous, cowardly, thief of a gawd? |
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Post by oldtrapper on May 1, 2021 23:56:01 GMT
Torturing them forever is the worst thing you could do to a person, arguably it's even beyond the worst thing you could do, since "the afterlife" is unproven made-up crap. To be told that the being that would do that to you, loves you, is sickening!!! And to see someone otherwise not completely stupid repeat that again and again, is infuriating!!! Interesting that you should take such a position since God says only the nonbelievers would be punished in such a manner. Do you feel the same about locking up criminals? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 9:27:51 GMT
Torturing them forever is the worst thing you could do to a person, arguably it's even beyond the worst thing you could do, since "the afterlife" is unproven made-up crap. To be told that the being that would do that to you, loves you, is sickening!!! And to see someone otherwise not completely stupid repeat that again and again, is infuriating!!! Interesting that you should take such a position since God says only the nonbelievers would be punished in such a manner. Do you feel the same about locking up criminals? You're an idiot. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT
Only a fascist psychopath would consider that not believing something is a crime!!!
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Post by oldtrapper on May 2, 2021 15:31:06 GMT
Interesting that you should take such a position since God says only the nonbelievers would be punished in such a manner. Do you feel the same about locking up criminals? You're an idiot. So says the fool that has such a low IQ he cannot answer the question. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 15:59:01 GMT
So says the fool that has such a low IQ he cannot answer the question. You fucking retard! |
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Post by FEZZILLA on May 2, 2021 23:12:54 GMT
I have yet to meet those type. I nail these atheists on misinterpretation after misinterpretation on a regular basis. The atheist is an atheist because they are blind and blind people cannot read or see the light. Then what is your excuse when you deny the one true God, and defend your lying, adulterous, cowardly, thief of a gawd? Your gawd is the lying, adulterous, thief called the gov't. My God is God. You are merely shit talking nonsense here. If you were a Christian you would not be so damn judgmental about people you don't know. I mean, like really now, you accuse devout Christians of being godless while you leftists are all homosexuals who molest little boys, burn down cities, shoot little children, denationalize the nation, strip citizens of all their civil rights, steal from them with wasteful government spending, mock God regularly, and have absolutely no love for your neighbor or yourself. You are a mocker and your posts are just mockeries of the Bible. Socialism is evil and godless and you have to be on a cocktail of drugs not to know that. |
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Post by oldtrapper on May 3, 2021 0:27:43 GMT
Then what is your excuse when you deny the one true God, and defend your lying, adulterous, cowardly, thief of a gawd? Your gawd is the lying, adulterous, thief called the gov't. My God is God. You are merely shit talking nonsense here. If you were a Christian you would not be so damn judgmental about people you don't know. I mean, like really now, you accuse devout Christians of being godless while you leftists are all homosexuals who molest little boys, burn down cities, shoot little children, denationalize the nation, strip citizens of all their civil rights, steal from them with wasteful government spending, mock God regularly, and have absolutely no love for your neighbor or yourself. You are a mocker and your posts are just mockeries of the Bible. Socialism is evil and godless and you have to be on a cocktail of drugs not to know that. Yawn. And not one verse of scripture, or even one iota of evidence that I have lied, nor any that your gawd is not trump, and yet you blather on with a fools comment. |
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Post by oldtrapper on May 3, 2021 0:31:32 GMT
So says the fool that has such a low IQ he cannot answer the question. You fucking retard! And yet you are the one that cannot answer the question.  |
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Post by Mercy for All on May 3, 2021 14:15:12 GMT
Then what is your excuse when you deny the one true God, and defend your lying, adulterous, cowardly, thief of a gawd? If you were a Christian you would not be so damn judgmental about people you don't know. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ever looked in a mirror? |
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Post by FEZZILLA on May 4, 2021 2:02:35 GMT
If you were a Christian you would not be so damn judgmental about people you don't know. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ever looked in a mirror? Yes. I'm aware of my short comings. Perhaps you should be honest to yourself about yours. |
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