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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 22:56:00 GMT
That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? Religion is not based on reason or facts, most if not all, of the time it's the expression of a wish or the consequence of a fear, or a little of both. How can you debate with someone who, when push comes to shove, will tell you that they couldn't conceive life without god? Well, you can't.
It's like smokers for example, so long as they are smoking they'll have tons of arguments to support it, no matter how absurd, if and when they quit smoking, their position will change, radically. There is no middle ground.
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Post by FEZZILLA on Mar 18, 2021 0:59:59 GMT
That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? Religion is not based on reason or facts, most if not all, of the time it's the expression of a wish or the consequence of a fear, or a little of both. How can you debate with someone who, when push comes to shove, will tell you that they couldn't conceive life without god? Well, you can't. It's like smokers for example, so long as they are smoking they'll have tons of arguments to support it, no matter how absurd, if and when they quit smoking, their position will change, radically. There is no middle ground. Its only debatable to those who want to know. If you don't care what a religion teaches then you will never know anything about a religion. That's one reason why this forum is not good for discussing religion. Atheists here don't want to understand Christianity. They come here only to attack what they don't want to understand. With a mind-set like that its impossible to hold civil discussion on this forum which makes this forum very low class for civil discussion. I cannot have a civil discussion here. I don't ever care if I get banned. I really don't. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 18, 2021 16:29:12 GMT
It's debatable if you can agree to terms...e.g., on things like epistemology and scientific theories, and if you can acknowledge presuppositions (both your own and your opponent in good faith (i.e., without misrepresenting their position). Otherwise, it tends to be fruitless.
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 18, 2021 16:30:13 GMT
That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? Religion is not based on reason or facts, most if not all, of the time it's the expression of a wish or the consequence of a fear, or a little of both. See...this is an example of misrepresenting someone else's position. You'll get nowhere if you do. |
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Post by Fiddler on Mar 18, 2021 19:53:26 GMT
I cannot have a civil discussion here. That's because you don't value facts. I don't ever care if I get banned. I really don't. I don't see that you've done anything that would warrant banning.. If lying and spreading nonsense were a banning offense we'd lose half of our right-wingers..  |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Mar 19, 2021 22:47:18 GMT
It's debatable if you can agree to terms...e.g., on things like epistemology and scientific theories, and if you can acknowledge presuppositions (both your own and your opponent in good faith (i.e., without misrepresenting their position). Otherwise, it tends to be fruitless. The Christian faith has nothing to do with your position or anyone's position. It is the ancient understanding that counts the most. If, say, you deviate from sound exegesis well held by ancient scholars, then you make up your own religion but its not Christianity. When Christians deviate from ancient doctrine then it leads to arguments all the time. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 20, 2021 21:47:55 GMT
It's debatable if you can agree to terms...e.g., on things like epistemology and scientific theories, and if you can acknowledge presuppositions (both your own and your opponent in good faith (i.e., without misrepresenting their position). Otherwise, it tends to be fruitless. The Christian faith has nothing to do with your position or anyone's position. It is the ancient understanding that counts the most. If, say, you deviate from sound exegesis well held by ancient scholars, then you make up your own religion but its not Christianity. When Christians deviate from ancient doctrine then it leads to arguments all the time. I wonder how you would describe "Christianity in a nutshell." |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Mar 22, 2021 0:24:39 GMT
The Christian faith has nothing to do with your position or anyone's position. It is the ancient understanding that counts the most. If, say, you deviate from sound exegesis well held by ancient scholars, then you make up your own religion but its not Christianity. When Christians deviate from ancient doctrine then it leads to arguments all the time. I wonder how you would describe "Christianity in a nutshell." Being a Christian is the complete acceptance of the life and works of Jesus Christ as written in the New Testament and prophesied in the Old Testament. Being a Christian requires true repentance of sins, surrendering your life over to Christ. It requires faith and faith means confidence, not doubt. True faith accepts Jesus as God...the word made flesh. True faith does not seek to pollute the message of the Gospel with ideas that harm that message. Case and point: you think ancient scholars were wrong and only a Marxist-communist from the 20th and 21st centuries understand the Bible. That in of itself is called evil in the sight of God and all true believers. Trying to reduce prophecy down to culture is also an act of evil. But today's Marxist thinkers confuse good and evil. Isaiah was right about these people when he rightly spoke from the holy spirit, saying: This sums up the entire progressive movement worldwide, along with all their wicked teachers who teach that evil is the new norm of righteousness. And again, in Romans 1:18-32, the Apostle Paul calls out evolution theory which is used to justify all evil today. |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Mar 22, 2021 0:28:27 GMT
And if you think I am misrepresenting your position then perhaps you should learn to speak clearly.
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 22, 2021 16:49:26 GMT
I wonder how you would describe "Christianity in a nutshell." Being a Christian is the complete acceptance of the life and works of Jesus Christ as written in the New Testament and prophesied in the Old Testament. Being a Christian requires true repentance of sins, surrendering your life over to Christ. It requires faith and faith means confidence, not doubt. True faith accepts Jesus as God...the word made flesh. True faith does not seek to pollute the message of the Gospel with ideas that harm that message. Case and point: you think ancient scholars were wrong and only a Marxist-communist from the 20th and 21st centuries understand the Bible. That in of itself is called evil in the sight of God and all true believers. Trying to reduce prophecy down to culture is also an act of evil. But today's Marxist thinkers confuse good and evil. Isaiah was right about these people when he rightly spoke from the holy spirit, saying: This sums up the entire progressive movement worldwide, along with all their wicked teachers who teach that evil is the new norm of righteousness. And again, in Romans 1:18-32, the Apostle Paul calls out evolution theory which is used to justify all evil today. No. You are misreading. I asked, "what is Christianity in a nutshell"? Not, what is "being a Christian in a nutshell"? |
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 22, 2021 16:50:06 GMT
And if you think I am misrepresenting your position then perhaps you should learn to speak clearly. See my previous post: a clear case of you misreading a very clear question... How do you know whether or not you are misrepresentation? If you can get your opponent to agree with your representation of his thoughts. If you can,'t, then you're likely misrepresenting. If your opponent corrects your representation, then you're likely misrepresenting. If you persist in misrepresenting, then you're lying. It's really that simple. If you present what you believe to be my position, ask if it's a correct representation. Because typically it's not. |
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Post by atreyu on Mar 22, 2021 23:11:39 GMT
That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? Religion is not based on reason or facts, most if not all, of the time it's the expression of a wish or the consequence of a fear, or a little of both. How can you debate with someone who, when push comes to shove, will tell you that they couldn't conceive life without god? Well, you can't. It's like smokers for example, so long as they are smoking they'll have tons of arguments to support it, no matter how absurd, if and when they quit smoking, their position will change, radically. There is no middle ground.
Is religion debatable? Yes.
Can a religion prove itself through debate? Heck no, otherwise it wouldn't be religion it would be fact.
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Post by FEZZILLA on May 4, 2021 8:06:41 GMT
That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? Religion is not based on reason or facts, most if not all, of the time it's the expression of a wish or the consequence of a fear, or a little of both. How can you debate with someone who, when push comes to shove, will tell you that they couldn't conceive life without god? Well, you can't. It's like smokers for example, so long as they are smoking they'll have tons of arguments to support it, no matter how absurd, if and when they quit smoking, their position will change, radically. There is no middle ground.
Is religion debatable? Yes.
Can a religion prove itself through debate? Heck no, otherwise it wouldn't be religion it would be fact.
Debating religion may be too harsh a term which is why religion debates tend to be hostile. I prefer to discuss religion in a much more peaceful manner. Now here that is impossible because too many hostile people on this forum who have no tolerance for true discussion. Many of you also jump to assumptions about this and that without ever treating a religion with respect. Look, you cannot ever learn about a religion if you have never actually studied it. You cannot ever learn about a religion if you have preconceived ideas that are actually false. Is religion provable? Well out of the world of religions it would sure seem like one of them must be provable. I'd go with the religion that ushered in the era of modern science and civilization. Christianity as a religion has made enormous breakthroughs in all areas of science and civilization. Obviously faith in Christ led humanity to the truth of many other great and wonderful things. But atheists chose to ignore all this. |
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Post by Mercy for All on May 4, 2021 13:26:44 GMT
Is religion debatable? Yes.
Can a religion prove itself through debate? Heck no, otherwise it wouldn't be religion it would be fact.
Debating religion may be too harsh a term which is why religion debates tend to be hostile. I prefer to discuss religion in a much more peaceful manner. Now here that is impossible because too many hostile people on this forum who have no tolerance for true discussion. Many of you also jump to assumptions about this and that without ever treating a religion with respect. Look, you cannot ever learn about a religion if you have never actually studied it. You cannot ever learn about a religion if you have preconceived ideas that are actually false. Is religion provable? Well out of the world of religions it would sure seem like one of them must be provable. I'd go with the religion that ushered in the era of modern science and civilization. Christianity as a religion has made enormous breakthroughs in all areas of science and civilization. Obviously faith in Christ led humanity to the truth of many other great and wonderful things. But atheists chose to ignore all this. It's really unfortunate, because when we first started discussing, you almost immediately started making some pretty nasty assumptions and accusations towards me. So as much as you say you "prefer to discuss religion in a much more peaceful manner," your actions reveal that this is not true. You are the "hostile people." |
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Post by FEZZILLA on May 5, 2021 2:56:38 GMT
Debating religion may be too harsh a term which is why religion debates tend to be hostile. I prefer to discuss religion in a much more peaceful manner. Now here that is impossible because too many hostile people on this forum who have no tolerance for true discussion. Many of you also jump to assumptions about this and that without ever treating a religion with respect. Look, you cannot ever learn about a religion if you have never actually studied it. You cannot ever learn about a religion if you have preconceived ideas that are actually false. Is religion provable? Well out of the world of religions it would sure seem like one of them must be provable. I'd go with the religion that ushered in the era of modern science and civilization. Christianity as a religion has made enormous breakthroughs in all areas of science and civilization. Obviously faith in Christ led humanity to the truth of many other great and wonderful things. But atheists chose to ignore all this. It's really unfortunate, because when we first started discussing, you almost immediately started making some pretty nasty assumptions and accusations towards me. So as much as you say you "prefer to discuss religion in a much more peaceful manner," your actions reveal that this is not true. You are the "hostile people." Sorry, but I've never been good with heretics. |
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Post by Mercy for All on May 5, 2021 3:10:02 GMT
It's really unfortunate, because when we first started discussing, you almost immediately started making some pretty nasty assumptions and accusations towards me. So as much as you say you "prefer to discuss religion in a much more peaceful manner," your actions reveal that this is not true. You are the "hostile people." Sorry, but I've never been good with heretics. There you go again. At least you're consistent. This might be worth another thread. |
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