New light shed on Charles Darwin's 'abominable mystery'

I'll stop being a jerk when you'll stop playing me for a fool, IOW, being another kind of a jerk.



So far you seem very skilled at saying what your position, ISN'T but you fail miserably when it comes to saying what your position IS.


Sooner or later (and rather sooner than later) that kind of attitude becomes annoying.

I've made my position clear. Human beings don't exist as such without a material body. You assumed that having a material body denies the possibility of "eternal life" and responded quite rudely based on your ignorant assumption. Having a material body and "living eternally" are not mutually opposed positions. That's my position.

Most of the problem is you have a very narrow idea of "what Christianity is," I would assume based on a pretty traditional medievally-based version of it. Maybe that's all you have been exposed to.

Ok, why don't we make a deal then, I stop being rude and you stop calling me ignorant every chance you get, also you stop the smug tone, which is another way of calling the other person ignorant.

Now, I am afraid you're position is not clear, far from it.

IMO, in order to live, you have to exist, so your assertion that humans no longer exist but somehow still live forever sounds to me like pure nonsense.

Can you make your position a little "clearer"? I hope you can understand how what you've said so far could sound a little cryptic to the "non-initiate"...


As for the Christians, I've known them well, from the inside so to speak, when I was a kid, my parents, "enlisted" me in the catechism, thinking it would trigger "my faith". So I may not be acquainted with the "subtle nuances" of the difference between one shade of Christianity and another but I am far from being "ignorant" in these matters. And yes the way the priests and such told us/me the mind/soul/whatever was kind of software to the hardware that was the body and this "software" would live on forever, either in heaven or in hell depending on a judgment without appeal, I am afraid, which explain why I wasn't particularly attracted to the idea. (stupid smilies!).

I didn't say humans "no longer exist."

The Bible clearly says that the resurrected receive a "glorified body" or "spiritual body." Some dismiss this as meaning a "spiritual" rather than "material" existence. But the Greek adjective for "spiritual" is not an ontological adjective (i.e., it doesn't refer to what the body is made up of). The adjective describes the quality of what "powers" or "motivates" the body...in the same way that an "electric car" is not made of electricity; it runs on electricity, or a "diesel train" is not made of diesel, it runs on diesel.

Again, the problem is that the medieval church "incorporated" (obscure pun) so much Platonic and Aristotelian philosophy (particularly a spirit/body duality in which the body is "inferior"), that they missed the theme of the essential nature of matter to human existence. And you're left with a "heaven" made up of "spirit beings floating on clouds with harps."



Right. So medievally-informed, probably Roman Catholic, Christianity? And a version, I would argue, that on these points, contradicts what the Bible says.

Ok, so the bible was mistranslated then...

So, ninety-nine percent of the Christians believe in a mistranslated version of the bible...

That's another thing I have a problem with...

If it's the "chosen" religion then how come it gets so easily corrupted?

Anyway, so you believe that somehow our minds are transferable to another body, made of magic for what I understand... Ok, I don't see why you need to quibble on these matters, your version does not sound more reasonable or believable than the floating spirits one.

You believe we get bodies, do we get landscapes too? Houses, cities? All made of magic?

Sorry if I sound sarcastic but I can't find a way to express my thoughts that would make me sound otherwise...Awkward phrasing...





So ninety-nine percent of the Christians follow a bastardized version of the bible...

Looks like god's plan to evangelize the world is a bust... If only one percent of the Christian minority gets it right!!!

Not at all. That would be like saying "electric car" is translated from Greek to English as..."electric car," and someone understands that to be a "car made of electricity."

A "spiritual body" is a "spiritually motivated body" rather than a "fleshly motivated body." It's the Platonic lens that causes the misunderstanding.



You've heard from 99% of Christians? Where are you getting the idea that 99% of Christians believe in a "disembodied spiritual heaven"? And even if they did, does majority opinion guarantee truth?



It's not the "chosen religion" any more than relativity is the "chosen theory."

Everything humans get involved in can get corrupted. What's interesting is the corrections that occur repeatedly throughout history.



Wow. Are you reading what I'm posting? It's not at all "made of magic" any more than an electric car is "made of electricity"...



Yeah, I get that, but I don't think you're really reading what I'm posting. Not if you're equating matter with "magic."



Do you really think that 99% of Christians are Roman Catholic?

Sorry, I missed that thread. I have no idea why I didn't see it.

It's less than ideal, but better than nothing.