freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Nov 12, 2020 14:52:48 GMT
Limey, this thread is so we can continue our conversation.
I'm just about 50, and in my late teens and early twenties, I struggled with Faith.
Up to that point, I considered myself Agnostic, which I considered the most intelligent stance on the subject of G-d. My logic was that I was open to the IDEA of G-d, but until I saw even the tiniest shred of proof, I could not believe. And being a lover of science prior to university, and fully trained IN science by the end of it, mere observance of physical phenomena was not good enough to act as proof. But I ran into a simple problem that my stance could not resolve, and it irritated me like a tiny rock in my shoe, constant discomfort as I walked through life.
The problem was Happiness. I was not Happy, and I capitalize that word, because I am not referring to the small happiness one feels when they do well at some task, or eat a special food. I'm talking about the bigger Happiness as an outlook on life. What I realized was that one, I was not Happy, and two, that many with less intelligence than me, were. And when I looked at what those who were Happy had in common, especially in areas of the world less wealthy than mine, I realized it was religion. This bothered me tremendously, because up to that point, I considered religion to be a waste of time at best, and more likely, a money scam. That pebble in my shoe was not satisfied with this explanation however, and upon examining further, I concluded that it was Faith itself which they had in common. This was logical, because all religions seemed to confer the same Happiness, and the only thing they had in common was Faith.
So I started to look at Faith itself, and the link below is the conclusions I came to, and the demand that as a scientific-minded person, I have Faith. But you are not going to like it.
Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 13, 2020 21:53:40 GMT
Well, I'm no Limey, but I'm not buying the "Faithism" manifesto either. It seems to be sort of circular logic: You can believe in faith, or have faith, but you can't prove that your faith has any truth behind it, and that's what makes it faith, and therefore makes it worthwhile. Eek.
on edit: I suppose I consider myself a humanist, which does not require faith or gods or burning bushes or miracles. And I think a lot of the better parts of established religions are really humanist maxims, such as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". That does not require a supreme being, unless you regard the rest of humanity as a collective supreme being. And I'm sure conservatives will freak out at the term "collective". LOL. Fuck them.
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Post by limey² on Nov 14, 2020 4:57:21 GMT
Limey, this thread is so we can continue our conversation.
I'm just about 50, and in my late teens and early twenties, I struggled with Faith.
Up to that point, I considered myself Agnostic, which I considered the most intelligent stance on the subject of G-d. My logic was that I was open to the IDEA of G-d, but until I saw even the tiniest shred of proof, I could not believe. And being a lover of science prior to university, and fully trained IN science by the end of it, mere observance of physical phenomena was not good enough to act as proof. But I ran into a simple problem that my stance could not resolve, and it irritated me like a tiny rock in my shoe, constant discomfort as I walked through life.
The problem was Happiness. I was not Happy, and I capitalize that word, because I am not referring to the small happiness one feels when they do well at some task, or eat a special food. I'm talking about the bigger Happiness as an outlook on life. What I realized was that one, I was not Happy, and two, that many with less intelligence than me, were. And when I looked at what those who were Happy had in common, especially in areas of the world less wealthy than mine, I realized it was religion. This bothered me tremendously, because up to that point, I considered religion to be a waste of time at best, and more likely, a money scam. That pebble in my shoe was not satisfied with this explanation however, and upon examining further, I concluded that it was Faith itself which they had in common. This was logical, because all religions seemed to confer the same Happiness, and the only thing they had in common was Faith.
So I started to look at Faith itself, and the link below is the conclusions I came to, and the demand that as a scientific-minded person, I have Faith. But you are not going to like it.
Freon
Hi.... assume there's no hurry, weekend soon.
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Post by FEZZILLA on Nov 17, 2020 8:29:10 GMT
I hope you all missed me lol!
What happened to the old forum?
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 17, 2020 14:44:29 GMT
I hope you all missed me lol! Fizzle!!! How the hell are you? Finally escaped that straight jacket? Miss you? .. Nah .. We've got gun nuts, diehard TrumpHumpers and a guy that's sworn to defend the Confederacy despite their treason so we've got delusion covered. What happened to the old forum? Do you know the myth of The Exodus? This is similar 'cept following the demise of the original LNF, a brief stay at a hostile (no.. I spelled it correctly) and after a tantrum by Pharaoh .. part played by a totally unpleasant douche named Solar .. I led the masses to wandered the cyber-desert settling here. Welcome.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Nov 17, 2020 15:23:30 GMT
Well, I'm no Limey, but I'm not buying the "Faithism" manifesto either. It seems to be sort of circular logic: You can believe in faith, or have faith, but you can't prove that your faith has any truth behind it, and that's what makes it faith, and therefore makes it worthwhile. Eek.
on edit: I suppose I consider myself a humanist, which does not require faith or gods or burning bushes or miracles. And I think a lot of the better parts of established religions are really humanist maxims, such as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". That does not require a supreme being, unless you regard the rest of humanity as a collective supreme being. And I'm sure conservatives will freak out at the term "collective". LOL. Fuck them.
Trying to prove that your Faith has truth to it misses the point of Faith entirely.
What does a humanist believe in, and can that 'belief' give the same benefits of Faith. Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 17, 2020 15:54:10 GMT
Humanism is basically a scientific approach.
Faith is not required.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Nov 17, 2020 16:16:31 GMT
Humanism is basically a scientific approach. Faith is not required. What exactly does that mean.
Does it mean you will only believe if you have something proven to you?
Do you have faith in anything? And by that I mean, do you choose to believe in anything that you do NOT have proof in?
Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 17, 2020 16:43:01 GMT
Humanism is basically a scientific approach. Faith is not required. What exactly does that mean.
Does it mean you will only believe if you have something proven to you?
Do you have faith in anything? And by that I mean, do you choose to believe in anything that you do NOT have proof in?
Freon
Upholding our democratic traditions does not require belief in the supernatural.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Nov 17, 2020 16:44:43 GMT
What exactly does that mean.
Does it mean you will only believe if you have something proven to you?
Do you have faith in anything? And by that I mean, do you choose to believe in anything that you do NOT have proof in?
Freon
Upholding our democratic traditions does not require belief in the supernatural.
What about coping with the human condition? How have you resolved that? Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 17, 2020 17:22:45 GMT
Upholding our democratic traditions does not require belief in the supernatural.
What about coping with the human condition? How have you resolved that? Freon
What about the "human condition" is not factual?
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Nov 17, 2020 17:26:08 GMT
What about coping with the human condition? How have you resolved that? Freon
What about the "human condition" is not factual?
Good, evil, purpose, hope, the list is really endless. Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 17, 2020 17:29:17 GMT
What about the "human condition" is not factual?
Good, evil, purpose, hope, the list is really endless. Freon
All of which, could, and should, be supported by facts.
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Nov 17, 2020 17:49:17 GMT
Good, evil, purpose, hope, the list is really endless. Freon
All of which, could, and should, be supported by facts.
Now I understand.
Freon
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Post by FEZZILLA on Nov 17, 2020 20:25:37 GMT
Humanism is basically a scientific approach. Faith is not required. Humanism scientific? I fail to see the scientific method in humanism. Its philosophy...just like evolution theory. Scientific method is brutally rigid. You have to see and observe things in real time. Humanism is just a philosophy that dehumanizes the humanity of man, reducing humanity to the mind of a chimp or a shark. Its philosophy just like evolution theory is philosophy. It requires faith to believe it.
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Post by FEZZILLA on Nov 17, 2020 20:35:46 GMT
What happened to the old forum? Do you know the myth of The Exodus? This is similar 'cept following the demise of the original LNF, a brief stay at a hostile (no.. I spelled it correctly) and after a tantrum by Pharaoh .. part played by a totally unpleasant douche named Solar .. I led the masses to wandered the cyber-desert settling here. Welcome. So the forum closed due to an argument?
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 17, 2020 20:47:43 GMT
You have to see and observe things in real time. Bullshit ..
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Nov 17, 2020 20:48:06 GMT
Humanism is basically a scientific approach. Faith is not required. Humanism scientific? I fail to see the scientific method in humanism. Its philosophy...just like evolution theory. Scientific method is brutally rigid. You have to see and observe things in real time. Humanism is just a philosophy that dehumanizes the humanity of man, reducing humanity to the mind of a chimp or a shark. Its philosophy just like evolution theory is philosophy. It requires faith to believe it.
Jaysus... incoherent at best...
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 17, 2020 20:49:05 GMT
Do you know the myth of The Exodus? This is similar 'cept following the demise of the original LNF, a brief stay at a hostile (no.. I spelled it correctly) and after a tantrum by Pharaoh .. part played by a totally unpleasant douche named Solar .. I led the masses to wandered the cyber-desert settling here. Welcome. So the forum closed due to an argument? No .. Due to an asshole's attempts at over moderation.
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 17, 2020 20:50:37 GMT
Humanism scientific? I fail to see the scientific method in humanism. Its philosophy...just like evolution theory. Scientific method is brutally rigid. You have to see and observe things in real time. Humanism is just a philosophy that dehumanizes the humanity of man, reducing humanity to the mind of a chimp or a shark. Its philosophy just like evolution theory is philosophy. It requires faith to believe it.
Jaysus... incoherent at best...
It gets worse. Fizzle is a combination of stu and paleoconned .. .
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