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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 22, 2024 14:11:51 GMT
The smartest guys in the room just pointed out the obvious, that Kamala and the Democrats have better ideas for boosting economic growth than the MAGA GOP. www.reuters.com/world/us/goldman-sachs-sees-biggest-boost-us-economy-harris-win-2024-09-04/Democratic administrations have a history of outperforming GOP when it comes to economic outcomes. Now that the GOP has embraced economic stupidity, expect this trend to continue if not hasten. There's a real tragedy here from a conservative political point of view. We've lived through a period of historic inflation. The GOP should be able to exploit the opportunity and paint themselves as saviors. But their own ideas are so bad the whole opportunity is lost. Didn’t they pay Hillary 800k for her investing advice. I’d also root for the puppet I can control What do the folks at Fee or Cato or Reason say about tariffs? What did Adam Smith say? Or Milton Friedman? Or Mises? Sometimes scientific consensus is just that, good science. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Sept 22, 2024 14:12:01 GMT
Simple question. “Was the economy, better under Trump, or after Biden took over?” Harris and Biden have been in power for the last almost four years. How is it going? Better than it started. Employment is up, the stock market is near an all time high, inflation has been conquered, energy output is setting new records, and as financial conditions loosen an expansion is on the table. Prices are out of control. Interest rates are still ridiculously high. Record numbers have dropped out of the workforce. Biden Harris have been a disaster on every metric. |
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 22, 2024 14:17:07 GMT
Better than it started. Employment is up, the stock market is near an all time high, inflation has been conquered, energy output is setting new records, and as financial conditions loosen an expansion is on the table. Prices are out of control. Interest rates are still ridiculously high. Record numbers have dropped out of the workforce. Biden Harris have been a disaster on every metric. Nah gas prices are much lower than their peak and if you look at actual price statistics, you will see that inflation has bottomed out. You're not going to get deflation so don't look for it. The labor force participation rate is at 62.7 today, which is slightly higher than the Aug 2018 number 62.6. fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPARTThe Biden economy has been far greater than republicans would tell you. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Sept 22, 2024 14:20:03 GMT
Prices are out of control. Interest rates are still ridiculously high. Record numbers have dropped out of the workforce. Biden Harris have been a disaster on every metric. Nah gas prices are much lower than their peak and if you look at actual price statistics, you will see that inflation has bottomed out. You're not going to get deflation so don't look for it. The labor force participation rate is at 62.7 today, which is slightly higher than the Aug 2018 number 62.6. fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPARTThe Biden economy has been far greater than republicans would tell you. That’s a great mainstream media soundbyte The reality is people disposable income is way down. I see it in rents. During the trump years almost all paid on time. Last few years each year it’s gotten worse and worse. Groceries. Energy. Insurance. All way outpacing wage increases. |
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 22, 2024 14:28:07 GMT
Nah gas prices are much lower than their peak and if you look at actual price statistics, you will see that inflation has bottomed out. You're not going to get deflation so don't look for it. The labor force participation rate is at 62.7 today, which is slightly higher than the Aug 2018 number 62.6. fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPARTThe Biden economy has been far greater than republicans would tell you. That’s a great mainstream media soundbyte The reality is people disposable income is way down. I see it in rents. During the trump years almost all paid on time. Last few years each year it’s gotten worse and worse. Groceries. Energy. Insurance. All way outpacing wage increases. Sure. That's true. The point is we have made legit progress. And you're also not giving Trump any blame here when we know that a half or better of the monetary expansion at the Fed happened under his admin, not Biden's. Most people who are fair about these things trace the global inflation problem back to Covid and its consequences much more than anything any particular government did or didn't do. And then consider the Trumpian alternative, 20% tariffs! BOO! You don't have to be a FEE subscriber to know what that leads to! |
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petep
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Post by petep on Sept 22, 2024 14:47:30 GMT
That’s a great mainstream media soundbyte The reality is people disposable income is way down. I see it in rents. During the trump years almost all paid on time. Last few years each year it’s gotten worse and worse. Groceries. Energy. Insurance. All way outpacing wage increases. Sure. That's true. The point is we have made legit progress. And you're also not giving Trump any blame here when we know that a half or better of the monetary expansion at the Fed happened under his admin, not Biden's. Most people who are fair about these things trace the global inflation problem back to Covid and its consequences much more than anything any particular government did or didn't do. And then consider the Trumpian alternative, 20% tariffs! BOO! You don't have to be a FEE subscriber to know what that leads to! The covid lockdowns - unnecessary extended lockdowns - combined with Biden Harris era spending is responsible for the disaster we have been living under. Trump was in office 4 years. When he left office inflation was 1.4 percent. We know was energy prices were. We know what grocery prices were. We know what interest rates were. |
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 22, 2024 15:04:36 GMT
Sure. That's true. The point is we have made legit progress. And you're also not giving Trump any blame here when we know that a half or better of the monetary expansion at the Fed happened under his admin, not Biden's. Most people who are fair about these things trace the global inflation problem back to Covid and its consequences much more than anything any particular government did or didn't do. And then consider the Trumpian alternative, 20% tariffs! BOO! You don't have to be a FEE subscriber to know what that leads to! The covid lockdowns - unnecessary extended lockdowns - combined with Biden Harris era spending is responsible for the disaster we have been living under. Trump was in office 4 years. When he left office inflation was 1.4 percent. We know was energy prices were. We know what grocery prices were. We know what interest rates were. Trump and the GOP share blame for COVID lockdowns, and those same policies were used in various forms all over the world. You can disagree with that but to pretend this was a peculiar policy of Biden would be historical revisionism. The Trump admin also gave out stimulus checks, PPP loans and the like. Further, those low interest rates you enjoyed were the consequence/product of the very loose monetary policy that is partially responsible for our inflation problem. You are cheering the cause of the inflation problem by celebrating low rates and monetary expansion. Energy prices were low under Trump because the economy was shut down. Do you really want to return to that? And we also know that oil companies colluded to rip consumers off when the economy reopened. They wanted to make up for losses they incurred when prices were so low. So they restricted output as our post-covid economic expansion took hold and the result was higher energy prices. Those higher energy prices impacted everything that was transported and resulted in higher than normal inflation. The past is what it is, we can argue about the details but the important discussion surrounds what the candidates want to do in the future. And Trump has a plan that would sabotage economic growth. Whatever case you would make against the Democrats and Biden for their less than stellar economic record is undermined by Trump's economy killing agenda. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Sept 22, 2024 15:23:43 GMT
Sure. That's true. The point is we have made legit progress. And you're also not giving Trump any blame here when we know that a half or better of the monetary expansion at the Fed happened under his admin, not Biden's. Most people who are fair about these things trace the global inflation problem back to Covid and its consequences much more than anything any particular government did or didn't do. And then consider the Trumpian alternative, 20% tariffs! BOO! You don't have to be a FEE subscriber to know what that leads to! The covid lockdowns - unnecessary extended lockdowns - combined with Biden Harris era spending is responsible for the disaster we have been living under. Trump was in office 4 years. When he left office inflation was 1.4 percent. We know was energy prices were. We know what grocery prices were. We know what interest rates were. The truth is sodomizing you, Junior Stasi Officer PP. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 22, 2024 17:26:24 GMT
Yeah. Questioning the integrity, morals, ethics and motivations of Goldman Sachs is sO sTuPiD!!11
You've really fallen hook line and sinker haven't you?
Queshank
You didn't do that, you questioned my choice of words. If you want to shoot the messenger, that's fine, but it doesn't get us any close to rendering a verdict on tariffs and their impact.
Sharing a link to other "experts" called the smartest guys in the room fucking up is not my only post in this thread. In fact it wasn't even the only link in the post you're referencing.
The other links were to Goldman Sachs fucking up to make the connection...
Queshank
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 22, 2024 18:04:51 GMT
You didn't do that, you questioned my choice of words. If you want to shoot the messenger, that's fine, but it doesn't get us any close to rendering a verdict on tariffs and their impact.
Sharing a link to other "experts" called the smartest guys in the room fucking up is not my only post in this thread. In fact it wasn't even the only link in the post you're referencing.
The other links were to Goldman Sachs fucking up to make the connection...
Queshank
None of it adds up to a suggestion that Goldman is wrong about tariffs. Goldman can take advantage of perversions in financial markets and securitization without necessarily getting the economics of tariffs wrong. The suggestion that one implies the other is silly. Goldman's behavior in the housing crisis of the oughts tells us nothing other than they are ruthlessly self-interested, just like everyone else. |
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Post by queshank on Sept 22, 2024 18:23:14 GMT
Sharing a link to other "experts" called the smartest guys in the room fucking up is not my only post in this thread. In fact it wasn't even the only link in the post you're referencing.
The other links were to Goldman Sachs fucking up to make the connection...
Queshank
None of it adds up to a suggestion that Goldman is wrong about tariffs. Goldman can take advantage of perversions in financial markets and securitization without necessarily getting the economics of tariffs wrong. The suggestion that one implies the other is silly. Goldman's behavior in the housing crisis of the oughts tells us nothing other than they are ruthlessly self-interested, just like everyone else.
And yet the issue is still complicated innit? Like foreign policy.
The wealthy in our country, as I've been demonstrating and pointing out for quite some time now, diversify their investment portfolios to have at least 50% in overseas investments for better ROIs.
What happens if those ROIs gleened from exploiting cheap labor in oppressive countries that don't respect the labor laws we respect and worker's rights we respect wind up more in line with investments domestically?
Goldman Sachs doesn't want that to happen because it will impact their clientele's ROIs.
The American worker might have a different outcome. I know. I know. Paying 25% more for cheap plastic goods and LEGOs will suck. We might have to start shifting our production or our children's toys. But over time .. investment in American goods is a bad thing is the argument Goldman Sachs is making. Continuing to exploit and colonize-thru-franchising 3rd world countries is good!
Queshank
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 22, 2024 19:18:16 GMT
None of it adds up to a suggestion that Goldman is wrong about tariffs. Goldman can take advantage of perversions in financial markets and securitization without necessarily getting the economics of tariffs wrong. The suggestion that one implies the other is silly. Goldman's behavior in the housing crisis of the oughts tells us nothing other than they are ruthlessly self-interested, just like everyone else.
And yet the issue is still complicated innit? Like foreign policy.
The wealthy in our country, as I've been demonstrating and pointing out for quite some time now, diversify their investment portfolios to have at least 50% in overseas investments for better ROIs.
What happens if those ROIs gleened from exploiting cheap labor in oppressive countries that don't respect the labor laws we respect and worker's rights we respect wind up more in line with investments domestically?
Goldman Sachs doesn't want that to happen because it will impact their clientele's ROIs.
The American worker might have a different outcome. I know. I know. Paying 25% more for cheap plastic goods and LEGOs will suck. We might have to start shifting our production or our children's toys. But over time .. investment in American goods is a bad thing is the argument Goldman Sachs is making. Continuing to exploit and colonize-thru-franchising 3rd world countries is good!
Queshank
That whole perspective imagines that ROI's domestically will stay the same or magically go up because we reduce the ROI's in other countries but owing to the fact that domestic firms are also consumers of inputs, that is an assumption that doesn't hold in theory or history. All we are really doing is making ourselves poorer, whether in terms of individuals consuming or businesses buying and selling. There is a lot of ruin in the world but we aren't going to get rid of it by putting a tax on ourselves. It's really not that complicated. |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 23, 2024 19:44:42 GMT
And yet the issue is still complicated innit? Like foreign policy.
The wealthy in our country, as I've been demonstrating and pointing out for quite some time now, diversify their investment portfolios to have at least 50% in overseas investments for better ROIs.
What happens if those ROIs gleened from exploiting cheap labor in oppressive countries that don't respect the labor laws we respect and worker's rights we respect wind up more in line with investments domestically?
Goldman Sachs doesn't want that to happen because it will impact their clientele's ROIs.
The American worker might have a different outcome. I know. I know. Paying 25% more for cheap plastic goods and LEGOs will suck. We might have to start shifting our production or our children's toys. But over time .. investment in American goods is a bad thing is the argument Goldman Sachs is making. Continuing to exploit and colonize-thru-franchising 3rd world countries is good!
Queshank
That whole perspective imagines that ROI's domestically will stay the same or magically go up because we reduce the ROI's in other countries but owing to the fact that domestic firms are also consumers of inputs, that is an assumption that doesn't hold in theory or history. All we are really doing is making ourselves poorer, whether in terms of individuals consuming or businesses buying and selling. There is a lot of ruin in the world but we aren't going to get rid of it by putting a tax on ourselves. It's really not that complicated. No. It doesn't magically imagine anything.
It simply an anti rich making it rich off the back of the common man policy. The kind leftists used to support before they changed masters. Because it's not unlike taxing the rich, but in this case cutting off one of their revenue streams. There's a reason the Dems have become the bourgeoisie defenders of the wealthy and international finance.
Why do you argue other countries should be able to exploit their workers and circumvent "worker's rights" and unfairly compete with American workers who are held to higher standards in order to provide better ROIs for the wealthy? (You are aware this has historically been a Democratic plank right?)
Queshank
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Post by RinsePrius on Oct 1, 2024 13:40:31 GMT
That whole perspective imagines that ROI's domestically will stay the same or magically go up because we reduce the ROI's in other countries but owing to the fact that domestic firms are also consumers of inputs, that is an assumption that doesn't hold in theory or history. All we are really doing is making ourselves poorer, whether in terms of individuals consuming or businesses buying and selling. There is a lot of ruin in the world but we aren't going to get rid of it by putting a tax on ourselves. It's really not that complicated. No. It doesn't magically imagine anything.
It simply an anti rich making it rich off the back of the common man policy. The kind leftists used to support before they changed masters. Because it's not unlike taxing the rich, but in this case cutting off one of their revenue streams. There's a reason the Dems have become the bourgeoisie defenders of the wealthy and international finance.
Why do you argue other countries should be able to exploit their workers and circumvent "worker's rights" and unfairly compete with American workers who are held to higher standards in order to provide better ROIs for the wealthy? (You are aware this has historically been a Democratic plank right?)
Queshank
Here's the thing. These tariffs aren't being discussed as a tool to nudge other countries into treating their workers better. This is a 20% across the board tariff aimed at protecting American industries. Historically, that leads to greater market power, which means greater pricing power (owing to the now non-existent cheaper option) and the result is higher prices and lower wages. This notion that the scab party wants to tax you so they can make poor people in other countries better off is laughable. They don't even care about power people in their own cities, states and nation, so it is eye roll worthy to suggest they would care about the foreign poor. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Oct 1, 2024 20:39:19 GMT
No. It doesn't magically imagine anything.
It simply an anti rich making it rich off the back of the common man policy. The kind leftists used to support before they changed masters. Because it's not unlike taxing the rich, but in this case cutting off one of their revenue streams. There's a reason the Dems have become the bourgeoisie defenders of the wealthy and international finance.
Why do you argue other countries should be able to exploit their workers and circumvent "worker's rights" and unfairly compete with American workers who are held to higher standards in order to provide better ROIs for the wealthy? (You are aware this has historically been a Democratic plank right?)
Queshank
Here's the thing. These tariffs aren't being discussed as a tool to nudge other countries into treating their workers better. This is a 20% across the board tariff aimed at protecting American industries. Historically, that leads to greater market power, which means greater pricing power (owing to the now non-existent cheaper option) and the result is higher prices and lower wages. This notion that the scab party wants to tax you so they can make poor people in other countries better off is laughable. They don't even care about power people in their own cities, states and nation, so it is eye roll worthy to suggest they would care about the foreign poor. Que-Anon is dumb enough to think that China will be paying the tariffs rather than the importers |
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Post by RinsePrius on Oct 1, 2024 21:26:18 GMT
Here's the thing. These tariffs aren't being discussed as a tool to nudge other countries into treating their workers better. This is a 20% across the board tariff aimed at protecting American industries. Historically, that leads to greater market power, which means greater pricing power (owing to the now non-existent cheaper option) and the result is higher prices and lower wages. This notion that the scab party wants to tax you so they can make poor people in other countries better off is laughable. They don't even care about power people in their own cities, states and nation, so it is eye roll worthy to suggest they would care about the foreign poor. Que-Anon is dumb enough to think that China will be paying the tariffs rather than the importers Perhaps but that would surprise me, to be honest. Of course motivated reasoning can get us anywhere. |
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