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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 8, 2024 23:44:26 GMT
That's not a grift, its a policy you disagree with. You think we have soldiers in Syria for moral reasons? Sure, it’s still probably billions. But compared to the bigger misadventures? It’s just a grift. I think it is complicated. I don't think "moral reasons" are necessarily what it is all about. But I also don't think it is so simple as to say these people are duping and grifting us. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 0:10:34 GMT
You think we have soldiers in Syria for moral reasons? Sure, it’s still probably billions. But compared to the bigger misadventures? It’s just a grift. I think it is complicated. I don't think "moral reasons" are necessarily what it is all about. But I also don't think it is so simple as to say these people are duping and grifting us. We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” |
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 0:12:11 GMT
I think it is complicated. I don't think "moral reasons" are necessarily what it is all about. But I also don't think it is so simple as to say these people are duping and grifting us. We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” Or we could flip it and be stupid in the other direction. "Our elites are dumb, they know nothing but how to grift us and be evil." |
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queshank
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 0:25:10 GMT
We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” Or we could flip it and be stupid in the other direction. "Our elites are dumb, they know nothing but how to grift us and be evil."
lol
Physician heal thyself.
Queshank
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 0:28:58 GMT
We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” Or we could flip it and be stupid in the other direction. "Our elites are dumb, they know nothing but how to grift us and be evil." Asking cui bono is an ancient practice to determine intent of “complicated” behavior. . It’s solid. Shrugging and saying “it’s complicated” is just state apologia. It’s not curious. I know it’s what the media does. I know it’s what the bureaucracy wants us to do. But this sort of behavior accelerates a governments inevitable slide into corruption. “We don’t know and it’s complicated” is significantly weaker than “who is benefiting from this?” By light years. |
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 0:31:39 GMT
Or we could flip it and be stupid in the other direction. "Our elites are dumb, they know nothing but how to grift us and be evil." Asking cui bono is an ancient practice to determine intent of “complicated” behavior. . It’s solid. Shrugging and saying “it’s complicated” is just state apologia. It’s not curious. I know it’s what the media does. I know it’s what the bureaucracy wants us to do. But this sort of behavior accelerates a governments inevitable slide into corruption. “We don’t know and it’s complicated” is significantly weaker than “who is benefiting from this?” By light years. Grifting is not irrelevant in understanding policy but if its the only lens it is overly simplistic. "Its complicated, let's consider all the relevant factors" is about as strong as it gets. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 0:38:49 GMT
Asking cui bono is an ancient practice to determine intent of “complicated” behavior. . It’s solid. Shrugging and saying “it’s complicated” is just state apologia. It’s not curious. I know it’s what the media does. I know it’s what the bureaucracy wants us to do. But this sort of behavior accelerates a governments inevitable slide into corruption. “We don’t know and it’s complicated” is significantly weaker than “who is benefiting from this?” By light years. Grifting is not irrelevant in understanding policy but if its the only lens it is overly simplistic. "Its complicated, let's consider all the relevant factors" is about as strong as it gets. And if I ask you what are “all the relevant factors” that have us possessing bases in Syria for a decade, will you tell me we don’t know them? Or will you list them out? |
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Post by RinsePrius on Sept 9, 2024 0:46:19 GMT
Grifting is not irrelevant in understanding policy but if its the only lens it is overly simplistic. "Its complicated, let's consider all the relevant factors" is about as strong as it gets. And if I ask you what are “all the relevant factors” that have us possessing bases in Syria for a decade, will you tell me we don’t know them? Or will you list them out? I don't pretend to have the answers, I don't even read FP but I do believe helping our allies the Kurds is part of it, and keeping a lid on ISIS. I am not suggesting this stuff isn't debatable, or couldn't be handled wiser or differently, but I am also not going to pretend I have it all figured out and know that it would be better to do "x." A little humility on all sides is called for. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 0:56:51 GMT
And if I ask you what are “all the relevant factors” that have us possessing bases in Syria for a decade, will you tell me we don’t know them? Or will you list them out? I don't pretend to have the answers, I don't even read FP but I do believe helping our allies the Kurds is part of it, and keeping a lid on ISIS. I am not suggesting this stuff isn't debatable, or couldn't be handled wiser or differently, but I am also not going to pretend I have it all figured out and know that it would be better to do "x." A little humility on all sides is called for. That would be nice. I don’t expect it from the neocons, the intelligence community, or the bomb makers. Nor do they need to change and show humility. They can smear anti war people, put them on terrorist watch lists, etc. Destroy their reputation. |
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thor
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Post by thor on Sept 9, 2024 1:04:08 GMT
We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” Or we could flip it and be stupid in the other direction. "Our elites are dumb, they know nothing but how to grift us and be evil." Fobbit also forgot to mention The Rothschilds, The Trilateral Commission, George Soros, Oprah, and The Semiconscious Liberation Army (which controls the Orbital Mind-Control Lasers).  |
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Post by thecitizen on Sept 9, 2024 2:10:58 GMT
Were you a democrat back in the day? I've never been a Democrat or Republican, just a conservative. Isn't it funny that Trump supporters are looking a lot like the Democrats of old, fighting for individual liberties, less interventionism and for the common working man against the elitists?
Are you enjoying being on the side of the elitists and warmongers, Citizen? We're glad filth like Cheney is on your side, not ours.
Your Trump conservatives ban books, ban abortion and don’t want black history taught in schools. You are nothing like us democrats. Your boy Bush and Cheney led us into a war. You supported that. Take responsibility for the shit you support |
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Post by queshank on Sept 9, 2024 3:40:40 GMT
Or we could flip it and be stupid in the other direction. "Our elites are dumb, they know nothing but how to grift us and be evil." Fobbit also forgot to mention The Rothschilds, The Trilateral Commission, George Soros, Oprah, and The Semiconscious Liberation Army (which controls the Orbital Mind-Control Lasers).
And you forgot to mention that RP's quote is an apt description of the left's delusional conspiracy laden views on Republicans.
Queshank
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demos
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Post by demos on Sept 9, 2024 17:36:00 GMT
WOW, Demos admits that republicans are neocon. This is really getting funny Dick Cheney is a neocon. What is your point? |
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Post by demos on Sept 9, 2024 17:39:06 GMT
Yes, Dick Cheney is an asshole, but one thing this asshole understands is a threat to our national security. Everyone has different reasons for voting for their candidate of choice. Just like those who vote for trump Dick Cheney supported torture and the expansion of executive power to the point of relegating Congressional responsibility on foreign policy matters. But tell me more about how he cares about the Constitution and democracy.
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Paleocon
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We spent 50 Years fighting the USSR just to become a gay, retarded version of It.
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Post by Paleocon on Sept 9, 2024 18:10:59 GMT
Yes, Dick Cheney is an asshole, but one thing this asshole understands is a threat to our national security. Everyone has different reasons for voting for their candidate of choice. Just like those who vote for trump Dick Cheney supported torture and the expansion of executive power to the point of relegating Congressional responsibility on foreign policy matters. But tell me more about how he cares about the Constitution and democracy.
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Post by Fiddler on Sept 9, 2024 18:12:35 GMT
Sorry, wasn't Dick Cheney a Republican?
Yep and now he's supporting the Democrat nominee. Think about that. The Ku Klux Klan, the Taliban and the Proud Boys support Trump ..
We know you won't think about that ..
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demos
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Post by demos on Sept 9, 2024 18:29:46 GMT
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Post by limey² on Sept 9, 2024 18:46:27 GMT
I think it is complicated. I don't think "moral reasons" are necessarily what it is all about. But I also don't think it is so simple as to say these people are duping and grifting us. We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” Some people in Ukraine are keen on the Russians being there, & vice versa. Same for France & Germany, 1870, 1914, 1940. I don't think hostility to US & allied presence is unanimous in the places you refer to. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 19:00:14 GMT
Yep and now he's supporting the Democrat nominee. Think about that. The Ku Klux Klan, the Taliban and the Proud Boys support Trump ..
We know you won't think about that ..
One of the most powerful neocons in history, and former Vice President. His daughter, a former representative in congress. And a plethora of other politically connected and powerful neoconservatives. Or some few dozen douchebags living in a shack someplace without $20 to their name. I wonder which one is more concerning? |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 9, 2024 19:00:51 GMT
We’re in countries that don’t want us in their countries. When other countries do that, they get compared to Nazi Germany. When we do it, “it’s complicated”. You think Russian state apologists aren’t saying the exact same thing? “Oh we can’t possible understand how complicated it all is. Our elites know what they’re doing. We’re just dumb peasants.” Some people in Ukraine are keen on the Russians being there, & vice versa. Same for France & Germany, 1870, 1914, 1940. I don't think hostility to US & allied presence is unanimous in the places you refer to. Wait, what? There are Syrians that want us in Syria? Are they linked to Al Qaeda? |
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