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Post by limey² on Apr 16, 2024 12:10:59 GMT
A Muslim schoolchild's bid to get special treatment has failed in a London court. Leaving aside the legal/constitutional considerations, what are your views on the freedom implications? BBC News - Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366 |
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Post by runswithscissors on Apr 16, 2024 12:46:23 GMT
A Muslim schoolchild's bid to get special treatment has failed in a London court. Leaving aside the legal/constitutional considerations, what are your views on the freedom implications? BBC News - Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366I don't see anything wrong with it because the school apparently prohibits all praying, not just for Muslims. Plus, it sounds like this place is pretty regimented.....strict attention in class, no talking in the corridors. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 16, 2024 13:46:31 GMT
A Muslim schoolchild's bid to get special treatment has failed in a London court. Leaving aside the legal/constitutional considerations, what are your views on the freedom implications? BBC News - Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366I have no idea where to begin with what your legal/constitutional considerations are. We have Freedom of Religion here as part of our Bill of Rights and a lot more protections around that than you do. |
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Post by limey² on Apr 16, 2024 14:24:38 GMT
A Muslim schoolchild's bid to get special treatment has failed in a London court. Leaving aside the legal/constitutional considerations, what are your views on the freedom implications? BBC News - Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366I have no idea where to begin with what your legal/constitutional considerations are. We have Freedom of Religion here as part of our Bill of Rights and a lot more protections around that than you do. Not sure you're right about the level of protection for freedom of religion. Hard to quantify. A written constitution isn't, in any meaningful sense, much different from a sovereign Parliament. The question is, is it OK to ban - in a State entity- expressions of religious faith? |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 16, 2024 14:37:07 GMT
I have no idea where to begin with what your legal/constitutional considerations are. We have Freedom of Religion here as part of our Bill of Rights and a lot more protections around that than you do. Not sure you're right about the level of protection for freedom of religion. Hard to quantify. A written constitution isn't, in any meaningful sense, much different from a sovereign Parliament. The question is, is it OK to ban - in a State entity- expressions of religious faith? A written constitution is completely different than a sovereign Parliament. A Parliament can change every election cycle, the Constitution does not. I am not saying you have zero religious freedom or significantly less (at this time), just pointing out it is different and protected differently. I am not sure I understand this schools status, but the article says they are a "free" school, and I think that meant it is not a government school... To your question though, no, not in America, a public school or state entity can't forbid expressions of religious faith. It is basically the reasonableness requirement. As long as a student is not standing up in the middle of class causing a disruption... they can pray on their own, at recess, on their time and wear religious things... |
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Post by limey² on Apr 16, 2024 14:56:56 GMT
Not sure you're right about the level of protection for freedom of religion. Hard to quantify. A written constitution isn't, in any meaningful sense, much different from a sovereign Parliament. The question is, is it OK to ban - in a State entity- expressions of religious faith? A written constitution is completely different than a sovereign Parliament. A Parliament can change every election cycle, the Constitution does not. I am not saying you have zero religious freedom or significantly less (at this time), just pointing out it is different and protected differently. I am not sure I understand this schools status, but the article says they are a "free" school, and I think that meant it is not a government school... To your question though, no, not in America, a public school or state entity can't forbid expressions of religious faith. It is basically the reasonableness requirement. As long as a student is not standing up in the middle of class causing a disruption... they can pray on their own, at recess, on their time and wear religious things... Interesting. Thanks. "Free school" btw is something I suspect the LNF RW fraternity would wholeheartedly endorse. I'm quite keen on them myself, with reservations. www.gov.uk/types-of-school/free-schools |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 16, 2024 15:14:08 GMT
A written constitution is completely different than a sovereign Parliament. A Parliament can change every election cycle, the Constitution does not. I am not saying you have zero religious freedom or significantly less (at this time), just pointing out it is different and protected differently. I am not sure I understand this schools status, but the article says they are a "free" school, and I think that meant it is not a government school... To your question though, no, not in America, a public school or state entity can't forbid expressions of religious faith. It is basically the reasonableness requirement. As long as a student is not standing up in the middle of class causing a disruption... they can pray on their own, at recess, on their time and wear religious things... Interesting. Thanks. "Free school" btw is something I suspect the LNF RW fraternity would wholeheartedly endorse. I'm quite keen on them myself, with reservations. www.gov.uk/types-of-school/free-schoolsI am not sure exactly how this would play out here... but I don't think a private school can stop a student from praying on their own time, to what extent that goes, not sure. Like, can they stop a student from praying publicly at recess? I don't think so... but then again, private schools can be selective on their students to a degree. A Catholic private school could reject a Muslim student... or basically say, don't come back if you keep doing your Muslim thing, this is a Catholic school. So... if it were an Atheist school, and they said no religious practices... I think that holds up here as being OK. Not sure if there is any case law there to go off of. LOL |
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Post by limey² on Apr 16, 2024 15:22:16 GMT
Interesting. Thanks. "Free school" btw is something I suspect the LNF RW fraternity would wholeheartedly endorse. I'm quite keen on them myself, with reservations. www.gov.uk/types-of-school/free-schoolsI am not sure exactly how this would play out here... but I don't think a private school can stop a student from praying on their own time, to what extent that goes, not sure. Like, can they stop a student from praying publicly at recess? I don't think so... but then again, private schools can be selective on their students to a degree. A Catholic private school could reject a Muslim student... or basically say, don't come back if you keep doing your Muslim thing, this is a Catholic school. So... if it were an Atheist school, and they said no religious practices... I think that holds up here as being OK. Not sure if there is any case law there to go off of. LOL This is why it was in the news. It's a novel situation here. I thought it was an interesting puzzler on the boundaries between rights/authority/attitudes towards minorities. |
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Post by atreyu on Apr 16, 2024 16:24:37 GMT
A Muslim schoolchild's bid to get special treatment has failed in a London court. Leaving aside the legal/constitutional considerations, what are your views on the freedom implications? BBC News - Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366
Since it would be impossible to accommodate all prayer rituals for every religion as the disruption to education would be massive it's probably fair to not allow any prayer rituals. I think that's the objective truth that cannot be argued.
I can certainly see why other religions would find this frustrating because let's face it, Christians have no rules around prayer. They learned a long time ago that the fewer rules and the easier it is, the more followers. Some religions can just pray without dedicated times.
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 16, 2024 17:35:10 GMT
A Muslim schoolchild's bid to get special treatment has failed in a London court. Leaving aside the legal/constitutional considerations, what are your views on the freedom implications? BBC News - Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366
Since it would be impossible to accommodate all prayer rituals for every religion as the disruption to education would be massive it's probably fair to not allow any prayer rituals. I think that's the objective truth that cannot be argued.
I can certainly see why other religions would find this frustrating because let's face it, Christians have no rules around prayer. They learned a long time ago that the fewer rules and the easier it is, the more followers. Some religions can just pray without dedicated times.
That isn't even the reasoning behind why they don't allow prayer. It it not impossible to allow for reasonable accommodations if they did allow for prayer at all. This is an every day thing here in America, with folks from all various religions enjoying Freedom of Religion and the right to practice their religion, to include reasonable accommodations to do so. There is nothing impossible about it. There is no "objective truth" to what you said at all. |
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petep
Legend
Posts: 23,195
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Post by petep on Apr 16, 2024 19:46:29 GMT
How’s the school “free”
Also, students can’t gather in groups of more than 4?
Welcome to China? The user?
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Post by limey² on Apr 24, 2024 19:35:03 GMT
How’s the school “free” Also, students can’t gather in groups of more than 4? Welcome to China? The user? Strict school, good results. Behaviour in general amongst young people is agreed to be worse, in some ways, than a generation or two ago. This head teacher is vocal & public about taking it a notch back. "Free" in this sense is "State funded, but not controlled by the City or County authority". Parents can choose amongst, usually, 3 - 5 local schools based on how closely results, education offer, & ethos match their preference. Of course, they can choose fee-paying private schools, too, if wealthy. This variety of offer was intended as an alternative to a voucher system,with the flaws that has, and seems reasonably successful. |
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