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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 6, 2024 17:29:22 GMT
Here is an excellent paper written by a friend of mine. It is from a Christian perspective, answering the question, do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? The short answer—depends on the resolution or level of the question and expected answer... www.journal-ems.org/index.php/home/article/view/92/56 |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 7, 2024 3:14:58 GMT
Eh, I don't agree with the position here that if your audience understands God a certain way, or R1, then sure, why not agree that you worship the same God? I think you should obviously speak with some amount of grace, but it seems rather deceptive to say to someone R1 that yes, you worship the same God, knowing that you do not.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 7, 2024 11:51:01 GMT
Eh, I don't agree with the position here that if your audience understands God a certain way, or R1, then sure, why not agree that you worship the same God? I think you should obviously speak with some amount of grace, but it seems rather deceptive to say to someone R1 that yes, you worship the same God, knowing that you do not. The issue is, what do you mean by God? The word "Allah" literally means "God." Our word "God" does not literally mean YHWH. If by "God" you mean "Creator of all things," then at an R1 level, we would be on the same page as a Muslim. Context is everything. Acknowledging that commonality actually offers the opportunity to pursue the conversation further and explore differences in definition. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 7, 2024 13:14:30 GMT
Eh, I don't agree with the position here that if your audience understands God a certain way, or R1, then sure, why not agree that you worship the same God? I think you should obviously speak with some amount of grace, but it seems rather deceptive to say to someone R1 that yes, you worship the same God, knowing that you do not. The issue is, what do you mean by God? The word "Allah" literally means "God." Our word "God" does not literally mean YHWH. If by "God" you mean "Creator of all things," then at an R1 level, we would be on the same page as a Muslim. Context is everything. Acknowledging that commonality actually offers the opportunity to pursue the conversation further and explore differences in definition. That isn’t an issue at all unless you are changing the meaning for your audience. What you are basically saying is that by being deceptive and less than honest you can relate… I don’t think foundations for relationships are best built on such deceptions. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 7, 2024 19:02:26 GMT
The issue is, what do you mean by God? The word "Allah" literally means "God." Our word "God" does not literally mean YHWH. If by "God" you mean "Creator of all things," then at an R1 level, we would be on the same page as a Muslim. Context is everything. Acknowledging that commonality actually offers the opportunity to pursue the conversation further and explore differences in definition. That isn’t an issue at all unless you are changing the meaning for your audience. What you are basically saying is that by being deceptive and less than honest you can relate… I don’t think foundations for relationships are best built on such deceptions. Not at all. It gives people the tools to be aware of what the question is that is being asked. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 7, 2024 19:05:13 GMT
That isn’t an issue at all unless you are changing the meaning for your audience. What you are basically saying is that by being deceptive and less than honest you can relate… I don’t think foundations for relationships are best built on such deceptions. Not at all. It gives people the tools to be aware of what the question is that is being asked. The question never changed, only the dishonest answer. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 7, 2024 21:35:52 GMT
Not at all. It gives people the tools to be aware of what the question is that is being asked. The question never changed, only the dishonest answer. Your response reveals that you either didn't read or understand the article. "Who is God?" as an R1 question would legitimately be answered as "the Creator of the universe," and an R1 answer would include both YHWH and the Allah of Islam. "Who is God?" as an R3 question would not be accurately answered with the Allah of Islam. Even though the words are the same, the question is different. The meaning of the question is determined by the context, which might not be obvious. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 7, 2024 21:45:59 GMT
The question never changed, only the dishonest answer. Your response reveals that you either didn't read or understand the article. "Who is God?" as an R1 question would legitimately be answered as "the Creator of the universe," and an R1 answer would include both YHWH and the Allah of Islam. "Who is God?" as an R3 question would not be accurately answered with the Allah of Islam. Even though the words are the same, the question is different. The meaning of the question is determined by the context, which might not be obvious. Yeah, I read the article. The question was not, "Who is God" The question is: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God. The answer is, no. |
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Post by atreyu on Apr 14, 2024 23:59:16 GMT
Your response reveals that you either didn't read or understand the article. "Who is God?" as an R1 question would legitimately be answered as "the Creator of the universe," and an R1 answer would include both YHWH and the Allah of Islam. "Who is God?" as an R3 question would not be accurately answered with the Allah of Islam. Even though the words are the same, the question is different. The meaning of the question is determined by the context, which might not be obvious. Yeah, I read the article. The question was not, "Who is God" The question is: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God. The answer is, no.
Do Jews and Christians worship the same god? Then what is different about Muslims? It's not debatable. It's history. Same as the Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, and Christianity branched off believing in the same god, so did Islam.
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 15, 2024 1:11:28 GMT
Yeah, I read the article. The question was not, "Who is God" The question is: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God. The answer is, no.
Do Jews and Christians worship the same god? Then what is different about Muslims? It's not debatable. It's history. Same as the Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, and Christianity branched off believing in the same god, so did Islam.
Did you read the paper submitted? |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 15, 2024 12:48:30 GMT
Yeah, I read the article. The question was not, "Who is God" The question is: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God. The answer is, no.
Do Jews and Christians worship the same god? Then what is different about Muslims? It's not debatable. It's history. Same as the Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, and Christianity branched off believing in the same god, so did Islam.
No. Jesus. Jesus is different between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Christians believe Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not. We do not worship the same God. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 15, 2024 13:36:35 GMT
Do Jews and Christians worship the same god? Then what is different about Muslims? It's not debatable. It's history. Same as the Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, and Christianity branched off believing in the same god, so did Islam.
No. Jesus. Jesus is different between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Christians believe Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not. We do not worship the same God. That, there, is the fundamental difference (at the higher resolution of definition). |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 15, 2024 14:36:56 GMT
No. Jesus. Jesus is different between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Christians believe Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not. We do not worship the same God. That, there, is the fundamental difference (at the higher resolution of definition). This is the truth at any level of resolution. It doesn't change. Edit: This is getting to the heart of my point here... that this is deceptive trying to play it off at some "resolution" to avoid the truth just to relate to Muslims. I don't think a foundation for trust and understanding should be built on what comes across as deception. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 15, 2024 17:53:10 GMT
That, there, is the fundamental difference (at the higher resolution of definition). This is the truth at any level of resolution. It doesn't change. Edit: This is getting to the heart of my point here... that this is deceptive trying to play it off at some "resolution" to avoid the truth just to relate to Muslims. I don't think a foundation for trust and understanding should be built on what comes across as deception. If you believe in a “god that created everything,” then what you might disagree on is the nature, character, and revelation of that deity. Your arguments are simplistic and stubborn. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 15, 2024 17:58:44 GMT
This is the truth at any level of resolution. It doesn't change. Edit: This is getting to the heart of my point here... that this is deceptive trying to play it off at some "resolution" to avoid the truth just to relate to Muslims. I don't think a foundation for trust and understanding should be built on what comes across as deception. If you believe in a “god that created everything,” then what you might disagree on is the nature, character, and revelation of that deity. Your arguments are simplistic and stubborn. What is the point of saying you believe in a "god that created everything?" It is to avoid the truth of Jesus being God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus is not a mere revelation of "that" deity. Jesus IS God. Now you are contorting what the Trinity is. |
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Post by Fiddler on Apr 16, 2024 22:43:38 GMT
If you believe in a “god that created everything,” then what you might disagree on is the nature, character, and revelation of that deity. Your arguments are simplistic and stubborn. What is the point of saying you believe in a "god that created everything?" It is to avoid the truth of Jesus being God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus is not a mere revelation of "that" deity. Jesus IS God. Now you are contorting what the Trinity is. The New Testament has no trinitarian doctrine.. The Trinity is a fabrication agreed upon by the First Council of Nicaea.. Not coincidentally at the same time Christianity ended. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 16, 2024 22:59:37 GMT
What is the point of saying you believe in a "god that created everything?" It is to avoid the truth of Jesus being God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus is not a mere revelation of "that" deity. Jesus IS God. Now you are contorting what the Trinity is. The New Testament has no trinitarian doctrine.. The Trinity is a fabrication agreed upon by the First Council of Nicaea.. Not coincidentally at the same time Christianity ended. You should start your own thread talking about why you think Christianity is wrong. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 17, 2024 0:08:56 GMT
What is the point of saying you believe in a "god that created everything?" It is to avoid the truth of Jesus being God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus is not a mere revelation of "that" deity. Jesus IS God. Now you are contorting what the Trinity is. The New Testament has no trinitarian doctrine.. The Trinity is a fabrication agreed upon by the First Council of Nicaea.. Not coincidentally at the same time Christianity ended. The New Testament, despite not articulating the Trinity as articulated in the Athanasian Creed, is certainly "trinitarian," in that it clearly describes Jesus as YHWH and the release of YHWH's Spirit post-ascension. The Trinity, by the way, wasn't part of the conversation of Nicaea. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 17, 2024 0:10:53 GMT
If you believe in a “god that created everything,” then what you might disagree on is the nature, character, and revelation of that deity. Your arguments are simplistic and stubborn. What is the point of saying you believe in a "god that created everything?" It is to avoid the truth of Jesus being God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus is not a mere revelation of "that" deity. Jesus IS God. Now you are contorting what the Trinity is. Christians do believe that God created everything, and the commonality of that understanding of who God is is true, over against pretty well every other belief system—Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, polytheism, etc. So if you believe "God created everything," you don't believe that God doesn't exist, or emerged out of some pre-existing chaos, etc. |
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Post by Monster Man on Apr 17, 2024 13:28:01 GMT
What is the point of saying you believe in a "god that created everything?" It is to avoid the truth of Jesus being God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus is not a mere revelation of "that" deity. Jesus IS God. Now you are contorting what the Trinity is. Christians do believe that God created everything, and the commonality of that understanding of who God is is true, over against pretty well every other belief system—Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, polytheism, etc. So if you believe "God created everything," you don't believe that God doesn't exist, or emerged out of some pre-existing chaos, etc. The "God" you talk about isn't the same God that Muslims worship though. That is my point. I don't just believe that a "God" created everything. I believe, as do Christians, that God includes Jesus. Is that what you mean when you say "God" created everything? |
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