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Post by freonbale on Jun 29, 2020 17:34:35 GMT
Again, apologies if this is already being discussed, but I am interested in how this group would get our country back up and running again.
We are definitely in a pandemic, and sheltering in place is the best remedy for this. It was the same advice given in 1918 (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html)
We have racial tension, we have political tension, and our economy, in terms of unemployment and personal incomes, is starting to look like the great depression.
So what do we do?
If we allow everyone to go about their business, the 125,000 deaths could escalate to millions, yet if we keep everyone at home, we'll all kill our spouses and children, and no one will make a living.
We can't just keep giving everyone a check every month, or maybe we can, I'm not really savvy when it comes to that sort of thing.
So what I am asking this group is for actual suggestions on how we can move forward.
My one suggestion is to have a leader who is listened to, and believed, by all the country. I don't know who that is, but I do know that Trump is not that guy.
Freon
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 29, 2020 17:49:03 GMT
Shelter-in-place/lockdowns were reactionary policies which have had little impact on the spread of the virus; e.g. New York and California.
At this point, the horse is out of the barn. Testing has been implemented inconsistently, and there are issues with the tests (Austin/Travis County is taking weeks to process results because they're using a fax machine). We can't even get people to follow social distancing guidelines or wear masks (both of which are responsible behaviors), because a) the CDC, etc. have been all over the place on masks, and b) we've completely politicized these behaviors.
In short, we're f*cked. We can't even follow a Swedish model, because people won't social distance or wear masks.
EDIT to add: Yesterday, I was in my office and watched (from my window) as a group of people protested against wearing masks (aka medical tyranny) and called COVID-19 a conspiracy. Then Alex Jones rolled up in his pimped out Hummer (no joke). Got some great pictures btw.
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Post by MojoJojo on Jun 29, 2020 17:55:32 GMT
I'm with Demos.
At this point, until people see their local hospitals crying for mercy, local behaviors are locked. Half trying to slow the spread and half not giving a shit. We're fucked, IMO.
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 29, 2020 18:07:49 GMT
The solution is clear. We should all be out rioting and looting and killing innocents.
The media has never made mention of the covid danger the throngs and packs of these people bring to the table.
But protesting the shutdown will definitely kill millions.
It’s so beyond obvious what a scam this has been for all but the most vulnerable.
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Post by freonbale on Jun 29, 2020 18:18:01 GMT
Shelter-in-place/lockdowns were reactionary policies which have had little impact on the spread of the virus; e.g. New York and California. At this point, the horse is out of the barn. Testing has been implemented inconsistently, and there are issues with the tests (Austin/Travis County is taking weeks to process results because they're using a fax machine). We can't even get people to follow social distancing guidelines or wear masks (both of which are responsible behaviors), because a) the CDC, etc. have been all over the place on masks, and b) we've completely politicized these behaviors. In short, we're f*cked. We can't even follow a Swedish model, because people won't social distance or wear masks. EDIT to add: Yesterday, I was in my office and watched (from my window) as a group of people protested against wearing masks (aka medical tyranny) and called COVID-19 a conspiracy. Then Alex Jones rolled up in his pimped out Hummer (no joke). Got some great pictures btw. So I work in healthcare in Cali, and the social distancing and masking policies have absolutely had an impact. Not sure what data suggests otherwise, please link, because it's not what we are seeing at all. In fact, just got out of a zoom meeting with my manager coworkers, and one was not masked and we saw a second person in the room. That guy was publicly shamed for not masking. I don't believe we're f-cked at all. In fact, what we are seeing is that where people follow the guidelines, we see a smaller impact. In Cali, I have yet to see or hear about a single protest regarding masking. Most people are pretty cool about it, and if some go out and don't wear one, they get some REALLY nasty looks and chastising from their fellow citizens. It is seen as endangering us all, as it should be. Bummer you live in a place where what seems like ignorance rules. Freon |
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Post by freonbale on Jun 29, 2020 18:23:16 GMT
The solution is clear. We should all be out rioting and looting and killing innocents. The media has never made mention of the covid danger the throngs and packs of these people bring to the table. But protesting the shutdown will definitely kill millions. It’s so beyond obvious what a scam this has been for all but the most vulnerable. I don't agree that the media is condoning being out in public, whether for rioting or not. And in most of the protesting I've seen, people are masked. In the hospital system where I work, we are definitely seeing the increase in COVID positive patients as a function of the protests. But what are people to do? It is a balance between staying healthy and not being a vector, vs standing up for racial equality which rarely gets the momentum it now sees. To pass up this moment of removing even a small fraction of systemic racism is worth the risk of spreading disease, at least to some. The Trump rallies are really no different. Protesting for rights, but taking the risk of infection to do it. Freon |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 29, 2020 18:25:33 GMT
There is no systemic institutional racism.
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 29, 2020 18:36:01 GMT
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Post by freonbale on Jun 29, 2020 18:47:08 GMT
People are and aren't. Orange County eased their restrictions on beaches a month ago, and as a result, people started using them as before the pandemic. This resulted in a surge which made OC close its beaches again. This is actually partly reflected in one of your links to protests, which occurred in our notably conservative political island of Orange County (though, that's changing). I'm not saying there are no protests here, I'm saying they are so rare, I've not really heard of any. What pisses me off is that those who choose not to wear masks as a protest, are saying they know more than our best scientists, and that putting others at risk is acceptable to them. How is that patriotic? How is that defending our nation? Freon |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 29, 2020 18:48:49 GMT
Just stay at home if u r that scared.
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 29, 2020 18:52:50 GMT
Just stay at home if u r that scared. Being 'scared' has nothing to do with this.. Being responsible is the call..
In the pre-Trump world.. Conservatives used to value responsible actions ..
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demos
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Post by demos on Jun 29, 2020 18:53:36 GMT
People are and aren't. Orange County eased their restrictions on beaches a month ago, and as a result, people started using them as before the pandemic. This resulted in a surge which made OC close its beaches again. This is actually partly reflected in one of your links to protests, which occurred in our notably conservative political island of Orange County (though, that's changing). I'm not saying there are no protests here, I'm saying they are so rare, I've not really heard of any. What pisses me off is that those who choose not to wear masks as a protest, are saying they know more than our best scientists, and that putting others at risk is acceptable to them. From a quick search, protests don't seem that rare. But all of the above, especially the bolded part, goes back to my point. People aren't practicing socially responsible behaviors, in part because those behaviors have been politicized. And, as noted, the lockdowns are reactionary policies which have not effectively contained the spread of the virus. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 29, 2020 19:08:39 GMT
People are and aren't. Orange County eased their restrictions on beaches a month ago, and as a result, people started using them as before the pandemic. This resulted in a surge which made OC close its beaches again. This is actually partly reflected in one of your links to protests, which occurred in our notably conservative political island of Orange County (though, that's changing). I'm not saying there are no protests here, I'm saying they are so rare, I've not really heard of any. What pisses me off is that those who choose not to wear masks as a protest, are saying they know more than our best scientists, and that putting others at risk is acceptable to them. From a quick search, protests don't seem that rare. But all of the above, especially the bolded part, goes back to my point. People aren't practicing socially responsible behaviors, in part because those behaviors have been politicized. And, as noted, the lockdowns are reactionary policies which have not effectively contained the spread of the virus. How anyone can deny that this has been political is beyond comprehension Here we are supposed to be in the midst of the thousand year disease to end us all. Mandatory shutdowns, threat of severe punishment. I’m in the midst of getting us the most dire needed funding of all time, those who are trumpeting the threat decide we also need to fund the arts, and how about some refugee resettlement. And what else? It’s ludicrous how many can’t see they are getting played. |
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 29, 2020 19:20:29 GMT
The media has never made mention of the covid danger the throngs and packs of these people bring to the table.
Yes they have .. Still .. This pic of BLM marchers vs ...  But protesting the shutdown will definitely kill millions. science mask protestors .. 
Should give you a pretty good indication of where to expect the outbreaks ..
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Post by Fiddler on Jun 29, 2020 19:22:08 GMT
From a quick search, protests don't seem that rare. But all of the above, especially the bolded part, goes back to my point. People aren't practicing socially responsible behaviors, in part because those behaviors have been politicized. And, as noted, the lockdowns are reactionary policies which have not effectively contained the spread of the virus. How anyone can deny that this has been political is beyond comprehension And it has been Trump and the rabid-right doing the politicizing.. |
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Post by william on Jun 29, 2020 19:30:12 GMT
People are and aren't. Orange County eased their restrictions on beaches a month ago, and as a result, people started using them as before the pandemic. This resulted in a surge which made OC close its beaches again. This is actually partly reflected in one of your links to protests, which occurred in our notably conservative political island of Orange County (though, that's changing). I'm not saying there are no protests here, I'm saying they are so rare, I've not really heard of any. What pisses me off is that those who choose not to wear masks as a protest, are saying they know more than our best scientists, and that putting others at risk is acceptable to them. From a quick search, protests don't seem that rare. But all of the above, especially the bolded part, goes back to my point. People aren't practicing socially responsible behaviors, in part because those behaviors have been politicized. And, as noted, the lockdowns are reactionary policies which have not effectively contained the spread of the virus. An actual president would have put on a mask back in February or March. He could even have had Javanka buy them from China and sell them, along with the rest of the crap they sell, with MAGAt and TRUMP 2020 printed in bold letters across the front. They could make millions at $25.00 each. And the rest of us could be talking about college football in September. Look at Japan, almost no social distancing, but near 100% mask use and almost 0 new cases for a long time. If we had only had an actual president. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jun 29, 2020 19:36:40 GMT
How is it that people do not understand what the president can and cannot do, and what powers fall to the states.
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Post by freonbale on Jun 29, 2020 19:54:06 GMT
The point of this thread is to look for actual solutions, not restatements of the problem.
Petep, you say this is all a hoax, and totally politicized. Fine.
What do you recommend? Should we all just ignore COVID?
And for those who share my views, how can we move forward in such a way that those who choose ignorance and propaganda also feel like they are being respected?
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Post by william on Jun 29, 2020 19:55:21 GMT
How is it that people do not understand what the president can and cannot do, and what powers fall to the states. How is it that idiots don't understand simple concepts like - leading by example. Like is going on now. They, you, all of you are following his lead on everything. "Ask not what ..." |
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Jun 30, 2020 4:35:27 GMT
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