Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 1, 2020 4:01:30 GMT
It's not what you may think.
In reality, the most wealthy Americans pay a far less percent of their income in all taxes than the poorest Americans.
But, wut?
Yup.
And when you look at all taxes, our tax system is by no means progressive. It's actually quite flat, with the poorest people paying almost the same percent of their income as the wealthiest - and they pay more than the very most wealthy.
But WUT?
Watch this video to the end, if you dare, then tell me if it's truly fair:
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Post by phillip on Sept 1, 2020 4:16:20 GMT
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 1, 2020 5:23:21 GMT
"It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it."
Ain't that the truth?
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 6:17:35 GMT
It's not what you may think.
In reality, the most wealthy Americans pay a far less percent of their income in all taxes than the poorest Americans.
But, wut?
Yup.
And when you look at all taxes, our tax system is by no means progressive. It's actually quite flat, with the poorest people paying almost the same percent of their income as the wealthiest - and they pay more than the very most wealthy.
But WUT?
Watch this video to the end, if you dare, then tell me if it's truly fair:
There’s a real doozy starting at about 2:55. Somehow, it’s just reality that poor people pay the employer’s share of the payroll tax on top of their own individual payroll taxes deducted. Here. Just believe that. |
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Post by Lomelis on Sept 1, 2020 6:30:05 GMT
Which states are taxing the shit out of practically everything and would therefore be imposing even more costs as a percentage of income on the poor?
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Post by william on Sept 1, 2020 8:44:38 GMT
It's not what you may think.
In reality, the most wealthy Americans pay a far less percent of their income in all taxes than the poorest Americans.
But, wut?
Yup.
And when you look at all taxes, our tax system is by no means progressive. It's actually quite flat, with the poorest people paying almost the same percent of their income as the wealthiest - and they pay more than the very most wealthy.
But WUT?
Watch this video to the end, if you dare, then tell me if it's truly fair:
There’s a real doozy starting at about 2:55. Somehow, it’s just reality that poor people pay the employer’s share of the payroll tax on top of their own individual payroll taxes deducted. Here. Just believe that. Of course rabbit, employers never calculate the cost of an employee and would pay them the same regardless of any sort of matching tax they are required to pay due to hiring the person. I also see that liquor distilleries don't mark-up prices to include the taxes they pay either. I fully agree with you that if these taxes were removed from businesses, neither the employee's income or the price of whiskey would change because rabbit said so. You would think business people would account for all employee related expenses when calculating an employee's actual salary/cost/income. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 1, 2020 8:58:07 GMT
There’s a real doozy starting at about 2:55. Somehow, it’s just reality that poor people pay the employer’s share of the payroll tax on top of their own individual payroll taxes deducted. Here. Just believe that. Of course rabbit, employers never calculate the cost of an employee and would pay them the same regardless of any sort of matching tax they are required to pay due to hiring the person. I also see that liquor distilleries don't mark-up prices to include the taxes they pay either. I fully agree with you that if these taxes were removed from businesses, neither the employee's income or the price of whiskey would change because rabbit said so. You would think business people would account for all employee related expenses when calculating an employee's actual salary/cost/income.
And the point about employers reducing worker pay to compensate for the employer's share of payroll taxes was clearly made in the video.
I'm shocked and saddened that our rabbit friend didn't catch that.
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 9:38:06 GMT
There’s a real doozy starting at about 2:55. Somehow, it’s just reality that poor people pay the employer’s share of the payroll tax on top of their own individual payroll taxes deducted. Here. Just believe that. Of course rabbit, employers never calculate the cost of an employee and would pay them the same regardless of any sort of matching tax they are required to pay due to hiring the person. I also see that liquor distilleries don't mark-up prices to include the taxes they pay either. I fully agree with you that if these taxes were removed from businesses, neither the employee's income or the price of whiskey would change because rabbit said so. You would think business people would account for all employee related expenses when calculating an employee's actual salary/cost/income. You’re defending this calculation of including the employer’s contribution to payroll taxes as a tax the individual worker pays to the government? Ok. Well then surely taxes on profit are paid by employees as well, right? So those should be included in the calculation. And what would be the best way to reduce these burdens in the working man? |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 9:41:46 GMT
Of course rabbit, employers never calculate the cost of an employee and would pay them the same regardless of any sort of matching tax they are required to pay due to hiring the person. I also see that liquor distilleries don't mark-up prices to include the taxes they pay either. I fully agree with you that if these taxes were removed from businesses, neither the employee's income or the price of whiskey would change because rabbit said so. You would think business people would account for all employee related expenses when calculating an employee's actual salary/cost/income.
And the point about employers reducing worker pay to compensate for the employer's share of payroll taxes was clearly made in the video.
I'm shocked and saddened that our rabbit friend didn't catch that.
Nobody “reduces the pay”. Employers know all costs associated with hiring and then make a calculation whether or not it will be worth the investment of hiring (at full burden of cost, to include salary, payroll taxes, health care, etc) the individual. This demonization of entrepreneurship and business is so fucking stupid. Businesses are making decisions in the environment the state has created. There is no “reducing of pay”. Everybody knows going in what the costs associated with employing somebody are. The employer pays the payroll tax. You can’t just add that burden to the employee and expect everybody to just accept that. |
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Post by william on Sept 1, 2020 9:48:29 GMT
Damn, rabbit has learned Qsplaining.
If I have 10 dollars to pay an employee but the government wants 3 if I hire the employee, then I can only pay 7, even though my cost remains the 10 I was willing to pay.
Yeah, the tax came out of the income allocated to the employee.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 1, 2020 9:50:45 GMT
Damn, rabbit has learned Qsplaining. If I have 10 dollars to pay an employee but the government wants 3 if I hire the employee, then I can only pay 7, even though my cost remains the 10 I was willing to pay. Yeah, the tax came out of the income allocated to the employee.
It really is sad how simple facts go right over Bunny's head.
Whoosh!
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 9:54:28 GMT
Damn, rabbit has learned Qsplaining. If I have 10 dollars to pay an employee but the government wants 3 if I hire the employee, then I can only pay 7, even though my cost remains the 10 I was willing to pay. Yeah, the tax came out of the income allocated to the employee. You make an offer to people for a salary, and they accept that salary if they want the job.. The total cost is calculated by business when making the decision. But the salary offered is the salary offered. The business weighs the total cost that they have to pay (to the employee and the government) when making the hiring decision. The business pays the payroll tax. This is obvious. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 9:55:50 GMT
Damn, rabbit has learned Qsplaining. If I have 10 dollars to pay an employee but the government wants 3 if I hire the employee, then I can only pay 7, even though my cost remains the 10 I was willing to pay. Yeah, the tax came out of the income allocated to the employee.
It really is sad how simple facts go right over Bunny's head.
Whoosh!
If it’s a “fact”, then why does everybody in the business world think that businesses pay payroll taxes to the government? Why isn’t it just common knowledge that they don’t? And that the employee pays all of it? |
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Post by william on Sept 1, 2020 10:13:19 GMT
It really is sad how simple facts go right over Bunny's head.
Whoosh!
If it’s a “fact”, then why does everybody in the business world think that businesses pay payroll taxes to the government? Why isn’t it just common knowledge that they don’t? And that the employee pays all of it? are you being intentionally dense or just contrary to common sense. Rabbit said that cost associated with employing someone isn't part of the employee's cost of employment. Do you feel the same way when an employer pays an employee's health insurance? Shirley you would consider that as part of an employee's salary package. |
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Post by william on Sept 1, 2020 10:15:41 GMT
Damn, rabbit has learned Qsplaining. If I have 10 dollars to pay an employee but the government wants 3 if I hire the employee, then I can only pay 7, even though my cost remains the 10 I was willing to pay. Yeah, the tax came out of the income allocated to the employee.
It really is sad how simple facts go right over Bunny's head.
Whoosh!
Yeah, when something doesn't fit the narrative, just ignore pertinent facts until it does. Personally I think he's taking Qsplaining lessons. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,115
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 1, 2020 11:02:29 GMT
It really is sad how simple facts go right over Bunny's head.
Whoosh!
Yeah, when something doesn't fit the narrative, just ignore pertinent facts until it does. Personally I think he's taking Qsplaining lessons.
What sort of idiot takes lessons on how to be a moron?
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 11:11:12 GMT
If it’s a “fact”, then why does everybody in the business world think that businesses pay payroll taxes to the government? Why isn’t it just common knowledge that they don’t? And that the employee pays all of it? are you being intentionally dense or just contrary to common sense. Rabbit said that cost associated with employing someone isn't part of the employee's cost of employment. Do you feel the same way when an employer pays an employee's health insurance? Shirley you would consider that as part of an employee's salary package. Nope. It’s not part of salary. It’s part of compensation. Salary is salary. I wonder if the health care is included in the video’s calculations of taxation rate for the lower class? In the denominator? |
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Post by william on Sept 1, 2020 11:38:02 GMT
are you being intentionally dense or just contrary to common sense. Rabbit said that cost associated with employing someone isn't part of the employee's cost of employment. Do you feel the same way when an employer pays an employee's health insurance? Shirley you would consider that as part of an employee's salary package. Nope. It’s not part of salary. It’s part of compensation. Salary is salary. I wonder if the health care is included in the video’s calculations of taxation rate for the lower class? In the denominator? Right rabbit, same with vacation days, sick days, a company car and all other employee perks - none have anything to do with compensation Good thing you don't run a business |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 11:53:50 GMT
Nope. It’s not part of salary. It’s part of compensation. Salary is salary. I wonder if the health care is included in the video’s calculations of taxation rate for the lower class? In the denominator? Right rabbit, same with vacation days, sick days, a company car and all other employee perks - none have anything to do with compensation Good thing you don't run a business I specifically said “compensation”. It’s like you can’t read. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Sept 1, 2020 11:59:33 GMT
When Social Security and Medicare were introduced, the argument was that employers should fund it for each employee as well as the employee himself.
Now the employer portion, it’s being argued, is a regressive tax that the employee pays.
Interesting.
I think that if I kept peeling this onion back, I might be able to get Ody and William to see that the unseen impacts of all taxation are a burden on society. But then they might explode.
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